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 appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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 My Friend Wants To Be Sad? 
#8141406 - 03/13/08 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have a very melodramatic artist friend who is going through a strange phase right now. She insists on making herself very sad and depressed because she thinks the most tragic and beautiful art comes from tortured minds. Haha, I know.
But anyhow, I'm not sure how to reason with her that this is ridiculous. She's recently taken up heroin, isolated herself from all but 3 friends and is trying really hard to be sad. I'm not an artist per say, so maybe I cannot relate entirely to what she's doing, but this all seems really silly.
I tried telling her that she could still make "tragic" art while being happy and leading a sane life, but she insists that it's not possible.
This post can be broken down into two questions I guess.
1. Can "tragic" art still be created by someone who is happy?
2. How can I convince her that her life is more important than her art?
*I thought this was more appropiate for philosophy because part of my friends problem is that her philosophy on art is interfering with her actual life.
Edited by appleorange (03/13/08 01:03 PM)
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 RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange] 1
#8141411 - 03/13/08 01:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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She's not an artist anymore, she's a heroin addict with an excuse. 
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange] 1
#8141420 - 03/13/08 01:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
1. Can "tragic" art still be created by someone who is happy?
Of course.
A healthy mind can find the best ways on expressing itself in any way if desires.
Quote:
2. How can I convince her that her life is more important than her art?
You can't.
We can't change anybody and I wouldn't recommend trying it.
Regarding her mind set, my guess is that she just needs attention and/or a way to justify her inability to express herself.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Jackenobi
Hermes
Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange]
#8141436 - 03/13/08 01:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if she just took up smack i expect she is going to be fairly happy for a while
fail, lol
but srsly
sorry about your friend. if that is her (pretty fucked) attitude right now there isn't a lot you can do
is she a successful artist? or is she still trying to make the break? her problem seems to be she didnt seperate her heart from her mind. when one of the two feels so i think you can make authenticly 'sad' art. if both are, like she wants to make of herself, i dont see how she is going to get up in a day let alone create something beautiful
try that shit on her for size
i italicised the word authentic because that is clearly what she's after - the artistic quoi pro non,
use it as part of your argument it might help get through to her
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read books
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange] 1
#8141477 - 03/13/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The whole tortured artist thing is a confusion about the fact that, yes, most artists are torutred depressed and poor, but they are this way because they give themselves over to their art. The best artists refuse to work day jobs, they refuse to be distracted by television or sports, social happiness or financial stability. They enter the artistic world and let go of everything else. This can lead to bad relationships, poverty, isolation and loneliness, which is all really depressing stuff. But when you think about it they are like any other workaholic, just dirt poor.
So I would tell your friend she is getting it backwards. Good art doesn't come from having a fucked up life but if you give all of your time energy and strength to your art your life can fall apart. Look at Dostoevsky, who would write until his fingers bled, or Charlie Parker who would practice saxophone 8 hours a day. They were committed, and that's why they were so damn good. Talent and vision are key parts of the puzzle but utter devotion bordering on insanity is what makes art that transcends ordinary human endeavour.
As to heroin...there were a lot of great artists who used heroin to reduce the pain and stress of their lives...and it destroyed them. Heroin makes you stupid, lazy and worthless. It won't make you a better artists. It destroys careers. It won't help you produce. It won't make your art more tragic.
David Lynch, arguably the most succesful "film artist" to ever exist, and a powerfully positive person, has written a fantastic book about meditation, positivity and the creative process. He has never used drugs, and has produced many different types of very disturbing and wonderful art. He writes that pain and tragedy and fear are important things to have in your art, to have your art or your characters experience, to portray. So understanding pain is good, but having pain and fear in yourself is bad. It is poison to the creative process.
I must say I agree. Of my artist friends, those who have become successful are those who have remained positive and drug free, and worked their asses of 24/7.
You can't convince your friend that her life is more important than her art, but you can tell her from someone who knows that heroin will just rob her of both. Tell her to spend less time shooting up and more time working on her craft.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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wickedscepter
Freedom Fighter
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 239
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8141501 - 03/13/08 01:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tell her to spend less time shooting up and more time working on her craft.
Nothing is going to make this chick better at what she wants to do than by practicing her art and doing all she can to learn and further her knowledge of it. It sounds like she is just lazy and is looking for a "get rich quick scheme". There isn't one for any artist.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8141506 - 03/13/08 01:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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she is a local celebrity, but by no means is famous or well-known. i've gotta head out the door and go to work now, but I'll get back to these replies later tonight.
thanks.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange]
#8141602 - 03/13/08 01:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Almost everyone I know is an artist (yeah, I live in a hipster ghetto) and sure, some of them are miserable, but most of them aren't and the miserable ones don't make better art than the stable ones. Heroin really isn't going to help her out. It's one in a million that can be a junkie and really create great art. The rest of the tragic artist types just fuck up thier lives and fall apart. Of course, me saying this probably isn't gonna help the situation with your friend. I'm really not sure what would help...
I definitly understand the drive to feel miserable for the sake of feeling something. I was, after all, deeply depressed for about 10 years of my short life. I honestly have felt more drive to write and make music when I've felt tragically shitty, but most of the time misery is totally counterproductive because it isn't always at that epic peak, but usually kind of dull and draining.
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix..." -Allen Ginsberg
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange]
#8141637 - 03/13/08 02:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Umm... has she been reading The Birth of Tragedy?
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Orbus
The Liberator
Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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I feel bad for a lot of these hipster/artist types. Its like they want their life to be a movie or a novel. They craft every single aspect of their life to try and fit a certain story. Wake up people. Life is not like that. I've seen more than a few of these people really lose touch with reality. It's very unhealthy.
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Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny 
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: Orbus] 1
#8141974 - 03/13/08 04:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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lol, she wants to create tragic art... so she can spread depictions of sadness and hopelessness?
you should tell her that if she wants to be a person who is infused with the creative and imaginative forces, why doesn't she try and make art that helps herself and humanity, or perhaps even create something novel, tragedy and the associated emotions are super old and boring.
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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: truekimbo2]
#8142042 - 03/13/08 04:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Art to help humanity?
This sounds gay, like Bono gay. 
In my opinion, ART isn't when one wants to do something FOR somebody or to make a statement, it is the joy, aptitude and awareness of expressing oneself, no matter who they are at the present moment. It is something that comes spontaneously. I think that a part of being artist is to know and accept the less inspired moments and welcome them with honesty, in order to make something out of them. When the so called artist is hungry for inspiration, they're not artists anymore but attention whores. 
Also, I don't think she wants to "spread" deception. Sometimes desperation brings out that so called "dark side" of us which some people confuse with ingenuity.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8142061 - 03/13/08 04:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Couldn't she just have been sad about not being sad?
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mycould
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Somewhere over the Rainbo...
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: xFrockx] 1
#8142149 - 03/13/08 04:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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true art is the expression of yourself. If she tries to be sad that is almost like a fake imitation of herself therefore it will not be great art but fake art. Tell her that every great person is unique, and the sad depressed emo thing has been done so many times that she should try a new approach to creating something great. Remember its not always what you say but how you say it, so if you keep pounding the same points into her head you will probably get nowhere, try different approaches and maybe it'll get through to her.
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Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange] 1
#8142730 - 03/13/08 06:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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She sounds immature. Anyway, it doesn't come from "faking it". Real hard times forge this quality, not self induced depression.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
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Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8142840 - 03/13/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
In my opinion, ART isn't when one wants to do something FOR somebody or to make a statement, it is the joy, aptitude and awareness of expressing oneself, no matter who they are at the present moment.
Can you name examples to back up this conclusion? Because this definition of art doesn't work for me at all. Me sitting on my ass eating potato chips may be where I am at and who I am in a given moment, so is that art? Your definition of art means that everytime anyone expresses themself it is art. I just don't agree.
There are examples of people expressing themselves that aren't art, and plenty of examples of art that aren't self-expression.
Quote:
It is something that comes spontaneously.
So architecture is not art because it requires blueprints? Symphonies that were written hundreds of years ago being performed by trained musicians is not art?
Quote:
I think that a part of being artist is to know and accept the less inspired moments and welcome them with honesty, in order to make something out of them. When the so called artist is hungry for inspiration, they're not artists anymore but attention whores.
I agree sort of. But a real artist will keep trying to work and produce even when they can't find the inspiration. Its not because they are attention whores but because they are dedicated to what they do.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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DimensionX
King of Birds
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia 
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8142940 - 03/13/08 07:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think there's a part of our minds which is full of inspiration. I think artists are particularly good at tapping into this. If you use your imagination you should never run out of inspiration, its like a limitless pit of ideas. Thats why people who are good at art, do it all the time, you always seem them doodling on a peice of paper or something similar.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: DimensionX]
#8143048 - 03/13/08 07:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, I just stopped by her place on the way home from work and she's still acting like Mrs. Poe. Apparently she spent the whole day collecting dead pigeons from the city for an up and coming piece as well.
I really have no idea what to say to her, but I think Niam's post really sums up how she is feeling right now. She has this drive to make sad/moving art and doesn't think she can do this with a happy mindset.
Oh well. All artsy stuff aside, the drug habit definitely needs to go, that much I am sure of.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: appleorange]
#8143060 - 03/13/08 07:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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one possible solution - show her this thread?
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: My Friend Wants To Be Sad? [Re: deranger]
#8143177 - 03/13/08 08:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
one possible solution - show her this thread?
 part of the whole sadness deal involved her throwing out the computer too.
she'd probably be pissed though if she knew I was talking about her on the internet.
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