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OfflineCubie
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Why can't you just knock up a casing?
    #7980576 - 02/04/08 10:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've always done jars or live tissue but I was thinking, why can't you just make a casing and then knock it up?

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OfflineMycster
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980589 - 02/04/08 10:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Because a casing is a non-nutritious layer to provide moisture to your substrate.

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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980597 - 02/04/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

usually you make the casing out of colonized material..

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OfflineSeventy
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7980630 - 02/04/08 10:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think he means the sub itself

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Offlinegreystealth
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Seventy]
    #7980640 - 02/04/08 10:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

seventy, i think yer super hawt

-yours truly


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Seventy]
    #7980648 - 02/04/08 10:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i mean you can do spawning.. like knocking up a sub with g2g and then casing it..

i dunno if that would be the same thing..

i dunno why you would want to case something that's uncolonized while it's colonizing.. seems like a possible contam risk to me..

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OfflineBejeezis
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980654 - 02/04/08 10:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You're talkin about raw substrate under a casing layer right?

And then shooting up the substrate through the casing layer?

I would expect that to be impossible to attempt and avoid contamination.

Grains (unlike poo) don't have good bacteria in them to ward off contams and they become a contam magnet when introduced to water.

This is my understanding, perhaps someone can show me where I'm wrong?


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Bejeezis]
    #7980667 - 02/04/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

plus with jars you can shake them to colonize them faster, keep it from clumping/caking/etc..

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OfflineCubie
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7980700 - 02/04/08 10:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yea I figured contams were probley the biggest reason. I'm lazy and I got a bunch of jars to do tomorrow. Lolz

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Offlinemikeytro
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980906 - 02/04/08 11:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

something similar to what the OP was saying:
I saw a thread on here a while back where a guy used snap and seal tupperware, basically used them instead of jars, pressure cooked them, and knocked em up.
they wernt that big, and I would think the bigger it was the less chance of success.
but worth investigating, it would be convenient if you wanted to case your substrate straight and not spawn


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Offlinemikeytro
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980912 - 02/04/08 11:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yea dude I havent made any new rye jars for like a month, too much prep/cleaning/time, I'm lazy :tongue:


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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein

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Offlineasknoquestions
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: Cubie]
    #7980913 - 02/04/08 11:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the real question is, could you use a LC to inoculate a bulk substrate directly? I imagine that contamination is once again an issue, but I would be interested in seeing the results from that.

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Invisiblelarge_dose
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: asknoquestions]
    #7981006 - 02/05/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Now a days people use LC to inoculate substrate bags. The bag has a pocket of grain in the middle to aid in colonization.

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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: large_dose]
    #7981446 - 02/05/08 03:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you can inoc bulks directly here is a pm that Wronguy very helpfully sent me.

I guess that would help if you knew how much huh? :wink: I fill anywhere between 4-6 bags with this recipe. It all depends on how large you want to fill the bags. If you fill 4 bags you will end up with about 6 pounds per bag, if you do 6 bags you will end up with about 4 pounds per bag.

The substrate bags are above water. You will need a 22+ quart cooker to pressure cook these bags if you plan to do more than 2 at a time.

By the way, I would personally add 3 tablespoons of Kelp Meal to that mix for some trace nutrients.

    Quote:
    Thanks a lot thats awesome. I will try it. With your cooking time how much do you load in each bag as I imagine the thickness of the block to play a part in determining cooking time. What is volume of bag and to what % do you fill. Also I take it your bags are above water level eg only steam heated. Sorry this wasnt clear from the tek. Thanks again for your time and great reply.

        Quote:
        I absolutely mix grains and horse manure. I have an older recipe on the Shroomery that works excellent! Here it is:

        48 Cups of horse manure (shredded)
        24 Cups of vermiculite
        16 1/2 Cups of dry WBS (do not soak or simmer)
        4 Tablespoons of dry Kelp Meal
        6 Tablespoons of Canola or Vegetable oil
        21 Cups of water

        Thoroughly mix all dry ingredients together. Now, add the water and mix again. Due to the human error factor on measurements, you may consider adding only 18 cups of water to begin with and adjust it from there. However, I have found that any measurements that are off are negligible in the moisture content.

        After all the water is added, test your moisture content by giving the substrate a hard squeeze. You should only be able to extract a few drops from this, not a steady drip. If you find that your substrate is a little too wet, slowly add vermiculite until you get the right consistency. If you measure everything correctly this should not be necessary. The moisture content needs to be slightly dryer than normal to allow for the liquid culture you will inject later.

        The final step is adding the oil. I prefer to add the oil in after the water has been added. I find it's much easier to mix in and doesn't stick to the substrate in one area or clump. Mixing the oil in with the dry ingredients will surely clump on you.

        Load your spawn bags at the same time and make sure they are as even as possible. Now it does not matter where you mix this. I do mine in my garage. I know I'm going to sterilize the substrate so contaminates are less of a concern. Follow the tek by Blue Helix to complete it. I personally PC for 2 1/2 hours at 15 PSI.

        After they have cooled just inoculate and wait.

        I hope that helps you out. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have further questions.

            Quote:
            Thanks for the info! Without being specific I take it your not in principle opposed to missing grain and poo type subs and sterilizing the whole lot, like in this tek eg no jars for inoculation needed.
            Makes real sense to me just want to be sure its worth trying.

                Quote:
                Sorry for the late reply. I've been really busy at home lately. OK, on to your questions:

                What is your recipe variant?

                Unfortunately I really can't share that with you. I'm starting a company up that will be providing many cultivating products and our core business will be a substrate that is far superior to what most people can get their hands on. Stay tuned for Cultivating Concepts.

                I take it you use smaller amount of lc from isolate as they are more potent?

                More potent genetically, yes. That is really not the best terminology to describe an isolate LC, but it will suffice for now. Because strain isolates are better genetically than multispore, colonization times and efficiency are drastically improved.

                I i was to fruit in the bag I would obviouly use a big bag with a filter patch? this make this super easy or are you dead against that eg i should def case and fruit?

                Having the ability to fruit inside the bag is entirely strain dependent. Fruiting in the bag creates a high environment for CO2. Some strains thrive on it and others will refuse to pin and fruit. I have found, through many trials and experiments, that you will have far better yields when you crumble the substrate into tubs, case, and fruit.

                What kind of bags do you use?

                I use the 3B Unicorn bags. These can be found at www.Sporeworks.com and are listed as the pre-sealable bags (large). I do not recommend pre-sealing them however, as I have found bursting to still be a issue at times. Seal them after they come out of the cooker, preferably while they're still hot.

                I hope that helps you.

                    Quote:
                    Hi! You wrote "The recipe's intent is really just that, bag and sterilize. Aside from the recipe, I pretty much cultivate this way exclusively.

                    Once the bag is sealed and cooled, inoculate with 60-140 ml of liquid culture (20-30 if you have an isolate), massage bag, place bag in a dark room until you have reached about 20-30% colonization, massage again and allow to fully colonize. When the bag is colonized, simply crumble the substrate into tubs, like double or mono or into trays for your Martha, case and fruit."
                    This seems very easy, I like the idea.
                    4 qs please.

                    What is your recipe variant?

                    I take it you use smaller amount of lc from isolate as they are more potent?

                    I i was to fruit in the bag I would obviouly use a big bag with a filter patch? this make this super easy or are you dead against that eg i should def case and fruit?

                    What kind of bags do you use?

                    thanks

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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: Why can't you just knock up a casing? [Re: kbilly]
    #7981661 - 02/05/08 07:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You can inoculate just about any suitable medium (good nutrition, properly hydrated, etc) with LC/multispore/G2G all you want, as long as it's STERILE (zero competing organisms.) If there are any competing organisms, you need a lot of colonized spawn mass in order for the mycelium to colonize the bulk substrate fast enough so that any other organisms that grow faster than mycelium (mold) can't get a foothold. Pasteurizing a substrate HELPS by retaining favorable organisms to fight off molds, but it only helps so much.

You usually cannot keep a bulk substrate completely sterile. One draft of open air causes your substrate to be subjected to contamination. Spawn bags are about the closest exception to this.

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