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 Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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 If the US brings all troops home tomorrow is the world a better place? 
#7966921 - 02/01/08 10:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes/No and Why?
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
Edited by Madtowntripper (02/01/08 10:49 PM)
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 Mezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7966963 - 02/01/08 10:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anybody study history in college here?
When an oppressive force leaves, it generally leaves a space to fill for other nefarious and controlling parties.
If the US wants to help the world, it will need to inspire the middle east to help itself. How should we do that? START ADMITTING THAT WE ARE ALL ONE PEOPLE.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7966969 - 02/01/08 10:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Recall our troops from just Iraq or ALL 700 + locations where they are deployed throughout the world?
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: zorbman]
#7967032 - 02/01/08 10:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nope, from everywhere.
ala Ron Paul.
Curious to see how many people think thats a great idea.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger
Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7967054 - 02/01/08 10:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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who gives a shit about other countries
it really isn't our role to police the globe.
we should be like most other countries and worry about ourselves.
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7967123 - 02/01/08 11:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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look at vietnam
they said when we left that it would create chaos
it created the opposite
look at somalia
we went in with humanitarian effort
fucked it up, then left and it was better off that way
iraqis tell us to leave them alone, they can create democracy on their own
we cant go around forcing our way of life at the tip of a bayonet
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7967303 - 02/02/08 12:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know what it is that everyone is so afraid would happen if we used OUR military to protect OUR nation.....
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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Minstrel
Man of Science
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Mezcal]
#7967450 - 02/02/08 01:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mezcal said:
Anybody study history in college here?
When an oppressive force leaves, it generally leaves a space to fill for other nefarious and controlling parties.
If the US wants to help the world, it will need to inspire the middle east to help itself. How should we do that? START ADMITTING THAT WE ARE ALL ONE PEOPLE.
All one people staring down the barrel of one gun held by one government? No thank you....
When Canada liberated Holland from the Nazis, they were jubilant and thankful to the Canadian soldiers. They all got laid, then went back home. No nefarious governments rolled in. We were all happy after it. Now Canadians can go there and smoke pot and get loved up all the time.
Edited by Minstrel (02/02/08 01:30 AM)
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ledfut
I once jerkedoff w/ bothhands
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7967462 - 02/02/08 01:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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depends on what your definition of better is.
it makes the world better for the troops that get to be home with their families
but on the other side
it would be bad if you happen to run a fortune 500 company because now the military isn't being used so that you can make more money.
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May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: ledfut]
#7968072 - 02/02/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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How about if you are a S. Korean?
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7968086 - 02/02/08 10:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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South Korea is more than capable of taking care of itself, and it is highly unlikely that the north would invade them.
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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: SoY]
#7968136 - 02/02/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you want to believe that, thats fine.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7968718 - 02/02/08 01:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mezcal said:
Anybody study history in college here?
When an oppressive force leaves, it generally leaves a space to fill for other nefarious and controlling parties.
If the US wants to help the world, it will need to inspire the middle east to help itself. How should we do that? START ADMITTING THAT WE ARE ALL ONE PEOPLE.
I am a senior and a history major. Your argument makes no sense from a historical standpoint.
What you are referring to is a "power vacuum". While this can be a problem, even the most perfunctory glance at history would tell you that this issue is usually solved in short order. The power vacuum argument is usually used by imperialist powers who wish to continue to illegitimately occupy a nation. They argue that staying will only incur disaster for the local population.
This is a short term argument, as power vacuums are almost always filled immediately. Government of the Iraqis is Iraq's problem, not ours, and to suggest otherwise would be patronizing and disgusting to the nation of Iraq. We don't need to "inspire" anyone. This comment smacks of racism. People are perfectly capable of inspiring themselves. I'm sorry if this offends your sensibilities about middle-eastern people, but they do have brains just as big as ours, and can keep in mind their interests in establishing a government. Will this government look like ours? No. Will we like it? Probably not, but the U.S. government post-pull out will likely praise it to high heaven and sell it missiles to get a crack at its oil fields.
I don't understand your idea of "acknowledging that we are all one". How will this policy be implemented? Will there be some sort of global government with more police power? Or will it be a government more akin to the U.N., but with more economic clout?
I really don't understand what you are saying. I don't think you have studied much history. Simply acknowledging a basic truism won't do jack shit to help anyone. From an ideological standpoint it won't help to "inspire" people. People are inspired by their own interests, beliefs, and heroes, not some vague ideological standpoint of the U.S. government. The world doesn't look to the U.S. for inspiration anymore, they look to the U.S. for warning signs of impending cluster bombs.
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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Eugene V Debs
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: kriminalelement]
#7968779 - 02/02/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Responding to the actual question, I think that yes, it would be a better place. Giving people dignity and respect would far outweigh the potential "benefits" of our current policy.
That said, if for some reason people should, by a VAST majority, want us to occupy their country for the safety and good of their people, we should make an attempt to help. But even in the worst of situations I think occupation only digs a hole for Americans, the U.S. government, and the people we so patronizingly want to "help".
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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Eugene V Debs
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Coaster]
#7969065 - 02/02/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said:
look at vietnam
they said when we left that it would create chaos
it created the opposite
That's true. The communists murdered every dissenter.Quote:
look at somalia
we went in with humanitarian effort
fucked it up, then left and it was better off that way
Somalia is still fuckedQuote:
iraqis tell us to leave them alone, they can create democracy on their own
we cant go around forcing our way of life at the tip of a bayonet
When they tell us that we should go.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: kriminalelement]
#7969068 - 02/02/08 02:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: zappaisgod]
#7969103 - 02/02/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
When they tell us that we should go.
watch the whole thing
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Coaster]
#7969114 - 02/02/08 03:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said:
look at vietnam
they said when we left that it would create chaos
it created the opposite
Umm yea, I guess I liked the mass slaughter too after the US left.
Quote:
Coaster said:
look at somalia
we went in with humanitarian effort
fucked it up, then left and it was better off that way
We fucked it up? It was already FUCKED and it still is FUCKED.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: downforpot]
#7969139 - 02/02/08 03:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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downforpot u no that every american life lost in the vietnam war was completely pointless right, we could have done the same in peace than what we did in war
and yes somalia is still fucked, but all we did was go in try to help them, they didnt want our help even though we had the right intentions, but we had casualties and it was all without benefits
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: If the US brings all troops home, is the world a better place tomorrow? [Re: Coaster]
#7969325 - 02/02/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said:
downforpot u no that every american life lost in the vietnam war was completely pointless right, we could have done the same in peace than what we did in war
You are ignoring the fact that it didn't just become peaceful after we left. You are changing the subject. So saying that it all became peaceful after we left is a LIE.
Quote:
Coaster said:
and yes somalia is still fucked, but all we did was go in try to help them, they didnt want our help even though we had the right intentions, but we had casualties and it was all without benefits
Yes and you are ignoring the original point which stated that we fucked it up. It was already fucked.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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