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 Bard
Ultrahuman
 
Registered: 09/10/01
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 Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" 
#7959155 - 01/31/08 05:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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People always complain that they or anybody should be treated as men or women and not as objects. But what is the difference between a human and an object? Aren't we all just machines? Aren't our thoughts just programs? We can modify them but they are just programs... So, I don't know, but this morning I came to the conclusion, that when they say that they wanted to be treated like humans, they mean, that even if they are just robots, we shouldn't take efforts to understand their code, and operate them accordingly. Maybe we should treat each other as we have no chance of understanding the other, and take no efforts to understand the other humans. What are your thoughts?
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So dreaming let's you know reality exists.
I don't belive. I fear.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Bard]
#7959166 - 01/31/08 05:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Would you be OK if I treated you like a candy machine?
i.e.: when I think that you don't work, I'd kick you? 
It is true that complaining doesn't serve any smart purpose, and that instead of complaining maybe a wiser choice would be to simply ignore people that you don't feel uncomfortable around.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7959168 - 01/31/08 05:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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as "humans", we are equal to eachother in the degree of wonder delight and pain, while an "object" in this context is not equal.
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 _  🧠_ 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Bard]
#7959538 - 01/31/08 09:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bard said:
People always complain that they or anybody should be treated as men or women and not as objects. But what is the difference between a human and an object? Aren't we all just machines? Aren't our thoughts just programs? We can modify them but they are just programs... So, I don't know, but this morning I came to the conclusion, that when they say that they wanted to be treated like humans, they mean, that even if they are just robots, we shouldn't take efforts to understand their code, and operate them accordingly. Maybe we should treat each other as we have no chance of understanding the other, and take no efforts to understand the other humans. What are your thoughts?
This is a good subject. IMO no matter what we say or like to think, we objectify the world and people around us. Hell we even objectify ourselves. We can make a guess at what others feel and operate from that. It's the best we can do. We are locked (by nature) into our separateness and few, occasionally transcend it, and only for a moment as far as I can tell.
This is not the news folk usually want to hear.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Icelander]
#7959627 - 01/31/08 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is not the news folk usually want to hear.
True. I would rather hear about the fog-induced 68 car pile-up.
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7959721 - 01/31/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, yes, essentially a human being is an 'object' but we treat different objects differently. 'Human being' is the name we have given to us as objects and there are social mores, norms, and rules that we abide by as we interact with each other.
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evolprim
human
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Boots]
#7974735 - 02/03/08 07:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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humans are different than objects not much in atomic composition but in experience, feelings, and thats why they should be treated with compassion. because they can experience suffering and joy versus a candy machine which can only deliver candy goodness 
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Bard]
#7975227 - 02/03/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
People always complain that they or anybody should be treated as men or women and not as objects.
Meaning they should be treated as ends and not as means. (Immanuel Kant)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Bard]
#7975766 - 02/03/08 10:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Subject (relevant definition)
the mind, ego, or agent of whatever sort that sustains or assumes the form of thought or consciousness.
Quote:
Object (relevant definition)
Something perceptible by one or more of the senses, especially by vision or touch; a material thing.
While it is true that humans are objects, we are also subjects. We do have a chance of understanding one another, though likely never completely, and the pursuit of whatever understanding we can achieve is very worthwhile, IMO. Empathy cannot be shared by machines, tables, ipods or coffee cups--only by a few primate species. Why should we ignore this important difference & treat others as though they are furniture on the stage set of our life?
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chilibow
Stranger
Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Veritas]
#7976337 - 02/04/08 01:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is gonna sound crazy but in terms of an "object" can't a person give enough attention an object (lets say like a guitar or car or something like that) where it becomes something that is essentially a living being? Something that can affect and alter your being?
"Empathy cannot be shared by machines, tables, ipods or coffee cups--only by a few primate species."
Can empathy create empathy upon itself?
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: chilibow]
#7977181 - 02/04/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think so. When we interact with objects, and feel ourselves changed "by" the object, the agent of change is ourselves. I often refer to the magic feather which "Dumbo" was told had the power to make him fly. As long as he held on to the feather, his belief in the feather allowed him to exercise an ability he already had. This placebo effect is not caused by the object.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: chilibow]
#7981641 - 02/05/08 07:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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But it makes a difference if one explores oneself let's say either with a piano or a pan-flute. Each 'tool' can lead to different insights about oneself.
Then, an old Vivaldi violin can have a different impact (on the user and the listeners) than a modern industry violin.
That's why we speak of a 'personality' or 'soul' of i.e. an instrument.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Icelander]
#7981885 - 02/05/08 09:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
We are locked (by nature) into our separateness and few, occasionally transcend it, and only for a moment as far as I can tell.
could you elaborate on what you mean by separateness?
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Bard
Ultrahuman
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 172
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: deranger]
#8016442 - 02/13/08 07:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks all for the answers!
MushmanTheManic:
Quote:
Meaning they should be treated as ends and not as means. (Immanuel Kant)
Thats an extremely interesting quote... Thanks!
Veritas:
Quote:
While it is true that humans are objects, we are also subjects. We do have a chance of understanding one another, though likely never completely, and the pursuit of whatever understanding we can achieve is very worthwhile, IMO. Empathy cannot be shared by machines, tables, ipods or coffee cups--only by a few primate species. Why should we ignore this important difference & treat others as though they are furniture on the stage set of our life?
I feel that this explanation is connected with the above Kant quote. Maybe this is not about us understanding them so we can have power over them, and so we can use them better, but it is about that we should try to connect with them, and try to get closer to them, so while we try to understand them, we try to make us understood by them also...
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So dreaming let's you know reality exists.
I don't belive. I fear.
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Bard
Ultrahuman
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 172
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Bard]
#8016450 - 02/13/08 07:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are three human behaviors exists:
1. listens, but don't speak - extreme introvert(?) - treats people as objects
2. speaks but don't listen - extreme extrovert(?) - treats himself as object? (don't knows much about others...)
3. speaks and listen - balanced - treats people as people
I just made this up...
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So dreaming let's you know reality exists.
I don't belive. I fear.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8016506 - 02/13/08 07:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You shouldn't kick candy machines or soda machines. You should call the vending company and report the problem.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Treating people as "human beings" vs. "objects" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8016516 - 02/13/08 07:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can always call before I kick so I can get my candy faster 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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