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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
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john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$
#7930086 - 01/25/08 02:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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woahz
I can't imagine that being to good of a thing, but at the same time I can't see it as being bad. I guess it has its +/-
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∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: snoot]
#7930110 - 01/25/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ya its easy for that spoiled floozy to say something like that and totally fuck over small business owners
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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Coaster]
#7930161 - 01/25/08 02:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess it doesn't matter, he's not getting the nomination anyhow
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∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: snoot]
#7930287 - 01/25/08 03:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Where it's bad is that employers have to charge more for products and services to cover the higher cost of paying for no skill labor. They also have to pay tax on what they pay you eating into their bottom line.
Who can blame corps for taking their business over seas to places like China, India or even Mexico where no skill labor cost them a lot less.
On the flip side, I understand the cost of living requires better then minimum wage. Inflation wouldn't get so far ahead of it, if the feds stopped pumping new money into the system.
It's typically the same people who want more money to keep up with the cost of living, that cry for more "money to be printed" and pumped into the system via welfare and "stimulus".
They are making things worse for themselves as they go along. They should be crying for the Fed to stop it, and let the corrections take place.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Visionary Tools
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7930379 - 01/25/08 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hell, raise the minimum wage up to 30$ an hour, it won't matter when you're money is worth nothing.
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carbonhoots
old hand
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7932716 - 01/25/08 11:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Where it's bad is that employers have to charge more for products and services to cover the higher cost of paying for no skill labor.
Most businesses don't have to make up the difference by raising prices . They can just make less profit.
-------------------- -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES
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DonkeyShell
Strange
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 212
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: carbonhoots]
#7933188 - 01/26/08 01:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if minimum wage was increased every year to match the cost of living, it would be over 10$ an hour, but the old republican congress ignored the issue.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: carbonhoots]
#7933277 - 01/26/08 01:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
carbonhoots said: Where it's bad is that employers have to charge more for products and services to cover the higher cost of paying for no skill labor.
Most businesses don't have to make up the difference by raising prices . They can just make less profit.
They can-but they won't.
If an employer is forced by law to pay an employee more then they think a job is worth, based on who is willing to do it for less, they will make up the difference by raising their prices.
At least, that is how it works on planet earth.
If you have never done a payroll, let me explain a few things. Employees cost a business owner more money then what is in their pay check. Employers pay the same federal Income tax that you do on your check. Employers also pay for Workman's comp insurance ( Huge reason why many corps are going over seas-it's expensive) Employers also have to pay an extra tax for unemployment insurance. ( I won't even get into if they give you any benis. )
Where some of you think, you only cost your employer $7.00 an hour, because that is what you make before taxes, you are wrong.
Secondly, take a retail store owner who buys wholesale from American makers. Those wholesalers are also forced to raise their minimum wage and will raise their prices, forcing the retailer to raise theirs. Say they lease from a company that now has to pay their minimum wage staff more. They will up the rent on your lease to ccover their loss.
It gets ugly fast for business owners and the average minimum wage worker without a clue never sees any of this.
Great, you got a pay raise. Everything is going to start costing you more when you go to shop though. What have you really gained? The problem keeps getting worse. it use to be that a man could get a job out of highschool, buy a home car, get married and raise a family. Now a man out of highschool can't even cover the costs of living on his own renting. The more the feds keep pumping money into the system, which leads to inflation, which leads to calls for raising the minimum wage, things just end up getting worse for minimum wage workers.
It's very difficult to eek out a profit with a new business. Only 4 out of ten make it past their 4th year.
Raise the minimum wage more and mom and pops will have to raise prices or fail. Big Corpa and wholesale manufactures will be more motivated to move those jobs over seas.
We've seen this happening to disturbing degrees.
Two things happen every time the minimum wage gets bumped. More business go out of business, leading to more unemployment, and more American jobs are lost to over seas workers.
Leave it to a globalist like Edwards to propose such a thing.
There is only one practical solution to keeping minimum pay relative to cost of living. Tell the Feds to stop printing more money. The markets will correct themselves.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Baeosistine
ڜڭۑۄڴڡڟژۻۼئٹ
Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 902
Loc: England
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7933834 - 01/26/08 07:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All the business leaders made big complaints about the minimum wage when it was introduced in the UK 1998. However none of the concerns they voiced were realised, they was no redcution in employment.
Currently it is around $10 here and most people are happy with that.
-------------------- jesus
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Baeosistine]
#7934751 - 01/26/08 12:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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We've raised it often in the U.S. Please site a source similar to what happened in England, for the American economy. Ours functions differently then yours does, primary difference relative here is that our Fed keeps printing more money to deal with economic slumps, falling markets, and to cover their ridiculous and out of control over budget spending.
They are the x factor here that keeps widening the gap between minimum wage and the cost of living. If they didn't interfere like they do, markets can raise minimum wages and prices and will keep a relative adjustment. Because they flood the system with more money, an additional inflation is incurred that small business and low wage earners can't keep up with. Big corpa , to stay competitive, ends up moving over seas where min wage labor is cheaper.
Our unemployment rate is up since 2000.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7934879 - 01/26/08 12:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Fed doesn't print money, the Treasury does.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
#7934976 - 01/26/08 01:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Fed doesn't print money, the Treasury does.
At whose directions? The state governments or the Federal government?
What do you think of Edwards minimum wage increase proposal?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7935094 - 01/26/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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*I* think its easy to make a push for sweeping reform when you don't have a chance in hell of winning anything...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: carbonhoots]
#7935131 - 01/26/08 01:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
carbonhoots said: Where it's bad is that employers have to charge more for products and services to cover the higher cost of paying for no skill labor.
Most businesses don't have to make up the difference by raising prices . They can just make less profit.
Asking them to do that would have to be one of the dumbest things I could possibly imagine.
The moral of the story is to not work a minimum-wage job. I'm happy I'm never have to deal with this sort of shitty pay.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7935158 - 01/26/08 01:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So by Fed you were not referring to the Federal Reserve?
I don't think there should be a federal minimum wage. Iowa isn't Brooklyn
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
#7935742 - 01/26/08 03:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: So by Fed you were not referring to the Federal Reserve?
I don't think there should be a federal minimum wage. Iowa isn't Brooklyn
Yes.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: snoot]
#8711762 - 08/01/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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From http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/01/unemployment-why-mccain-talks-about-economic-pain/ -
Quote:
The Bureau of Labor Statistics released their July numbers, and despite the mildly positive GDP growth announced yesterday, the rate rose again. Unemployment has now risen to 5.7% as the economy lost 51,000 jobs. The biggest jump in the rates came — again — from teen workers:
Quote:
The unemployment rate rose to 5.7 percent, and nonfarm payroll employment continued to trend down in July (-51,000), the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. Employment continued to fall in construction, manufacturing, and several service-providing industries, while health care and mining continued to add jobs. Average hourly earnings rose by 6 cents, or 0.3 percent, over the month.
Both the number of unemployed persons (8.8 million) and the unemployment rate (5.7 percent) rose in July. Over the past 12 months, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 1.6 million, and the unemployment rate has risen by 1.0 percentage point.
Over the month, the unemployment rates for adult men (5.3 percent) and whites (5.1 percent) edged up while the rates for adult women (4.6 percent), blacks (9.7 percent), and Hispanics (7.4 percent) were little changed. The jobless rate for teenagers increased to 20.3 percent in July. The unemployment rate for Asians was 4.0 percent in July, not seasonally adjusted.
Unemployment among teens rose two full percentage points from June, and six full points from last year. The biggest change in that market, of course, came from the minimum-wage hike passed by Congress last year...
More at the link. Boldface by Phred.
This trend comes as no surprise to anyone who has even a modest understanding of basic economic principles. See these older threads, too - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3422946 and http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2541587#Post2541587
Phred
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Phred]
#8711830 - 08/01/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I feel obligated to admonish John Edwards to take a firmer stand. A $9.50/hour minimum wage? Surely that will not suffice to raise America's desperately impoverished to the rank-and-file middle class. No, drastic times call for drastic measures, and as we are so blessed as to have John Edwards in our midst -- someone we can count upon to demand what is 'just', economic law be damned -- let us make as much use of him as we can.
John, on behalf of all Americans, please: Call for, nay, DEMAND the minimum wage be raised to $200/hour. If those fat-cat corporate CEOs thought they would be forever alone in getting paid so much to do so little, let us show them that the American people mean business. $200/hour minimum wage, let every fast-food employee, every toll-booth workers, and concession-stand operator get his fair share of America's riches.
Who's with me?
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Ancalagon]
#8711974 - 08/01/08 12:31 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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> john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$
Great plan. I love unemployment and inflation. They are both really good for a recessive economy. Next, we give everybody that is unemployed or not working a few thousand dollars in tax money that we take from companies that are making too much profit; hell, why stop there, lets just nationalize those companies, kill off civil liberties and any hint of privacy, and call ourselves The Communist States of Amerika!
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: snoot]
#8711991 - 08/01/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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a living wage in this country is about double that amount..and with average hourly output well over $40..it wont cause inflation...
-------------------- "anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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