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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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cloning and strain isolation
#7895760 - 01/18/08 12:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've researched this for the past couple days and still have few questions regarding cloning and strain isolation. When mushroom mycelium sectors it's really just the different strains right? If we do a enough agar transfers we eventually end up with ONE strain.
If we were to take a clone from this strain would it still sector? How do you get the best of both worlds an isolated strain that performs great but is also a clone? Do I just a clone from an isolated strain of mycelium? and if I were to clone an aborts would I get aborts? sry for all the questions
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zyxwvutsr
rstuvwxyz
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 141
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang] 2
#7895838 - 01/18/08 01:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. When agar is inoculated and more then one sector of mycelium grows, these are sub-strains.
Isolating a sub-strain is what you are wanting to do. I personally took a print knocked up some agar, isolated the most rhizo myc (after trial and error, I ran into a non fruiting and low active sub-s.) and made an LC. LC to WBS, WBS to Poo, took print from nicest mush, and started process over.
This would be isolating a substrain and then cloning it. I have used same strain for four years in a row. All from one LC containing cloned sub-strain
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zyxwvutsr
rstuvwxyz
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 141
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang]
#7895855 - 01/18/08 01:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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"do I just clone from an isloate sector?"
Yes. Isolate your wanted sub-strain. Grow your mushrooms. take a print from a healthy strong mushroom, start over. If everything is right, when agar is knocked up with your chosen mushrooms spores, you swhould have one section of growth.
I don't know about aborts, But I have cloned short and stubby to defected/mishapen mushes(not due non-optimal parameters) to find growing the same mushroom again and again
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: zyxwvutsr]
#7895915 - 01/18/08 01:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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At which point do I clone? Why do I need to start from spores again if I've already isolated my sub-strain? I thought spores had many many sub-strains you're saying that once I isolate and fruit a sub-strain it's spores won't sector. So why don't vendors offer spores that don't sector and come from the good sub-strains?
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zyxwvutsr
rstuvwxyz
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 141
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang] 1
#7895941 - 01/18/08 02:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Once you have isolated a sector, that is a substrain. Grow this substrain. Take a print from a good mush (whichever mush you want to clone) and start over. All spores from here on out are the same thing, over and over.
You could isolate one sector, grow it and be good. But there are many variables uncontrolled.
Vendors offer a multispore syringe. This syringe contains spores all of one strain. They would cost more because it would take more time to prepare, thus reducing profit margins.
Check threads at bottom of this page, sometimes yields betters results then search function. *out for the night*
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Samurai_Jim
Samurai Emperor.
Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 435
Loc: Near the Tail of the Drag...
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: zyxwvutsr]
#7896117 - 01/18/08 05:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you get the book The Mushroom Cultivator, there is an entire section dedicated to this specific subject. I learned all I needed to know about the process from there. THen I had to actually try it. Get the book if you don't have it, you will not be disappointed.
-------------------- Decreasing the world's bug population, one faceshield at a time.
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Samurai_Jim]
#7909489 - 01/21/08 12:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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bump
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang]
#7909760 - 01/21/08 02:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yes. Isolate your wanted sub-strain. Grow your mushrooms. take a print from a healthy strong mushroom, start over. If everything is right, when agar is knocked up with your chosen mushrooms spores, you swhould have one section of growth.
Actually, that's not right at all. When spores are used, many strains and isolates will develop. In other words, if you fruit an isolated strain, the spores that fall, will NOT be an isolated strain.
I've written pages and pages on how to isolate strains. Search should reveal all you want to know. There's also a strain isolation tek on my dvd if you learn easier by seeing it done. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7909960 - 01/21/08 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Yes. Isolate your wanted sub-strain. Grow your mushrooms. take a print from a healthy strong mushroom, start over. If everything is right, when agar is knocked up with your chosen mushrooms spores, you swhould have one section of growth.
Actually, that's not right at all. When spores are used, many strains and isolates will develop. In other words, if you fruit an isolated strain, the spores that fall, will NOT be an isolated strain.
I've written pages and pages on how to isolate strains. Search should reveal all you want to know. There's also a strain isolation tek on my dvd if you learn easier by seeing it done. RR
That's what I thought RR and right now I'm searching through your posts on strain isolation and cloning, I already own both copies of you dvds I just want to make sure my understanding of how get an isolated strain that's also a clone are correct.
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7910130 - 01/21/08 03:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm still unclear as to the difference between cloning a fruit from an isolated strain, and cloning a fruit from multispore.
Would a clone of a fruit from a multispore inoculation be a clone of a single substrain?
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: simplemachine]
#7910241 - 01/21/08 04:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Found my answer here.
Search feature FTW.
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: simplemachine]
#7910412 - 01/21/08 04:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang] 1
#7911018 - 01/21/08 06:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you grow a mushroom from an isolated strain, the fruits themselves will be of that isolate, but you wouldn't want to clone from them. You'd want to go to your refrigerator and pull out a much younger specimen of the same mycelium. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7911161 - 01/21/08 06:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is that to avoid senescence? Would that mean that their is a wider selection of genes in the original isolate than the fruit?
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.
Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: simplemachine]
#7911287 - 01/21/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
simplemachine said: Is that to avoid senescence? Would that mean that their is a wider selection of genes in the original isolate than the fruit?
The orginal would be younger and stronger faster to colonize and all that.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7911312 - 01/21/08 06:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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What do we clone from then? How do you get a strain that will have consistently perform well and have good potency?
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.
Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang] 1
#7911361 - 01/21/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You have your strain isolated in a slant or dish. You should have a few different strains isolated from the original.
You take a small piece and put it in grain or pf and then you let it fruit.
You see if it has the quality's that you like.
You should have a large slant or dish that you labeled and put in the fridge that goes with your fav jar.
That is now your master culture. Take a small part of it and save the rest.
Take the small part and put it in a new slant or dish and use that to make spawn and what not.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: MYSTIQUE]
#7911410 - 01/21/08 07:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm apologize I'm missing something here, I didn't see anything in that about cloning isn't that the only way to have reliable potency?
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.
Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: Wolfgang]
#7911599 - 01/21/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You are cloning when you cut the section out of the slant and droping it into the jar in a really loose sense of the word. You test out the potency of whats in the jar when its fruited and anything else taken from the isolated strain in the slant that you took the section from will be the same as the fruit you have.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Wolfgang
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
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Re: cloning and strain isolation [Re: MYSTIQUE]
#7913776 - 01/22/08 05:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah but I thought potency could vary mushroom to mushroom in any given flush unless you cloned the actually mushroom tissue.
I'm pretty sure I see what you're saying tho.
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