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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
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True Incubation Temps For Cubes(Discussion)
    #7864335 - 01/11/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have found of testing incubation temps that the 75-78F is a better incubation temp then 82-86. They say its 85-86 as stated in The Mushroom Cultivator, but actually 81+ increases thermophilics(") . Paul Stamets has it listed as 86 in TMC, but that was based on a flawed agar study where heat isnt generated! AND has been further research in the past 30 years has indicated it's even lower. Don't exceed 78F with grains because grain jars generate more heat.

Edited by dumbfounded1600 (03/17/08 07:24 PM)

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Offlinedonpatch
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Re: True Incubation Temps [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7864353 - 01/11/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I dont ever go above 83 and i routinely stay in the 78-80f range. never heard of these thermophilics until you told me but then again i never read Stamet's book.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: True Incubation Temps [Re: donpatch]
    #7864685 - 01/11/08 11:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I've been saying that for years. My petri dish studies a few years ago showed that cubensis reaches peak linear growth between 75F and 80F, then is flat until 83F, where it starts to slow down. Mycelium at 86F is growing at about 2/3 the speed of mycelium at 80F. In addition, the higher temps tend to stimulate thermophic molds and bacteria.

There's LOT'S of good information in TMC, but that 86F figure is one of the errors.
RR


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7864688 - 01/11/08 11:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.

Reason:
Moved to mushroom cultivation

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7864764 - 01/11/08 12:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you RR....finally someone who agrees...most of the people in IRC say 86F Increases the speed in about 9 days.....but I've had people come in and say its been 9 days and there jars are Fully Colonized at 75-78F...Mycology has come a long way in the past 10 years with new information and better knowledge....I'm glad I made this post...I'll be making new ones soon...have to get all my information in a paragraph first.

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Offlinedonpatch
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7864772 - 01/11/08 12:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My jars are g2g and they are 95% at 9 days. Multispore seemed to take forever though :laugh:


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OfflinePr0_X
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7864783 - 01/11/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It is very true, exceeding 83f does nothing more but encourage bacteria/mold growth, rye jars are never truly sterile once introduced to open air (having the filter uncovered) and working with a window of opportunity say 25 days being mine you generally want them to incubate at 75-78f, if it's a isolate your working with the growth will be quick anyways so just adding that extra heat for a small performance boost doesn't make much sense when most of the time it leads to wet spot.

I agree with you fully :thumbup:


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cause you know, they're so numb anyway.
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for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Pr0_X]
    #7864808 - 01/11/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Outside of living in an igloo or being too poor to heat your house I cant think of a reason why your normal room temp shouldn't be just fine for the mushrooms,even "Incubating" in one of the colder rooms I have gives better results than back when I was new enough to think I needed a tub in tub

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Blutjager]
    #7864988 - 01/11/08 01:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, not to dispute anybody, but I always had best results at 80-81F. Colonization was much faster at 80F than 70-72F. So assuming that a jar might generate 5F or so 85F seems like the optimal temp.

Linear growth in petri dishes in an incubator is a pretty easy thing to measure, so why are we disputing this?

Cubensis is a sub-tropical species that is fairly well studied, so it seems strange that we would be debating optimum colonization temps.

Somebody needs to do another study I guess.


-FF

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #7865072 - 01/11/08 01:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Colonization was much faster at 80F than 70-72F.........................................................................................try 75-78F...there isnt much of a differnce between that and 82-86?...anything above 81F has been proven that it slows down growth

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7868389 - 01/12/08 09:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I guess someone needs to repeat the linear growth experiments. We also need some temperature measurments from the center of jars.

Personally I experienced faster colonization up until 83-84F, which is as high as I went.

I haven't grown for quite a long time so I can't do the experiments, but maybe someone else will step up.


-FF

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #7868445 - 01/12/08 09:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

When I did it there was ten petri dishes colonizing at each temperature, in separate containers. I went through well over 200 petri dishes of mycelium for no other reason than to determine the temperature that stimulates fastest growth, other factors being equal. That was a far more controlled study than the one reported over 20 years ago. If someone else wants to repeat the experiment, go for it. I consider the matter closed. Paul doesn't even repeat that 86F figure, which someone else sent him.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7868526 - 01/12/08 09:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Will do, RR ... but first I'm going to write Paul Stamets and see what he says about it.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7868876 - 01/12/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
When I did it there was ten petri dishes colonizing at each temperature, in separate containers. I went through well over 200 petri dishes of mycelium for no other reason than to determine the temperature that stimulates fastest growth, other factors being equal. That was a far more controlled study than the one reported over 20 years ago. If someone else wants to repeat the experiment, go for it. I consider the matter closed. Paul doesn't even repeat that 86F figure, which someone else sent him.
RR




That's great RR. Could you share the data? It would be nice to prepare a graph from it to replace that one that lists 86 as optimal that's still floating around.


-FF

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #7869152 - 01/12/08 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It was all posted on the other board. I don't know if the threads are still there or not. Bottom line was the tubs that had petri dishes between 75F and 81F showed no difference in growth. Below 75F, and above 81F growth slowed down, with a rapid drop in colonization speed below 70F and above 83F. At 86F, a petri dish would be 2/3 colonized, while its sister at 75F would be fully colonized. Rate of growth at 86F was exactly the same as rate of growth at 72F, with fastest growth as said, occurring between 75F and 81F.

Note that these tests were for linear growth in the two dimensional plane of a petri dish. In three dimensonal space such as in grain jars or bulk substrates, the effects of thermogenesis need to be considered, so ambient temps should be lowered slightly to compensate.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7870713 - 01/12/08 08:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

sending my letter out Monday!

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7940487 - 01/27/08 02:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:laugh: My letter should be here....I know he won't even write a letter back about cubensis...so I wrote What's your intake on incubation temps for poop loving species in contrast to thermoplicism

Edited by dumbfounded1600 (01/27/08 02:17 PM)

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7948516 - 01/28/08 11:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well...Paul Stamets dissed my letter...so that sucks....o well...I still stand by these temps

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7984828 - 02/05/08 09:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

O YES IT IS COMING BACK....TRUE INCUBATION TEMPS FOR CUBES...LET THE BATTLES BEGIN! PLEASE NO FLAMING...ANY FLAMING BY ANYONE WILL RESULT IN THIS THREAD BEING CLOSED

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Offlineshevanel
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8155691 - 03/16/08 11:20 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

I find 80F room temp makes Q's colonize from g2g in 8 days and 11+ at 74 and below. Dunno the temp of the actual jars contents, but I have found 80F works quickly for me.

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