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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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hands free vapor brothers worth it?
    #7808552 - 12/28/07 10:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

just wondering if the hands ferr model was worth it, cause ive heard dissenting opinions

im getting one in a couple weeks aso i want to know if the extra $20 is really worth it (tight on cash, plus ill have to buy a grinder($25), and im out of weed so $50 for an eighth)

or is the grinder really necessary or would an acrylic one do just fine rather than the expensive metal one?


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808566 - 12/28/07 10:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah it's annoying having to hold the tube to the vaporizer, the hands-free is worth the extra $20 absolutely.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808577 - 12/28/07 10:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

damn, I'm giving up weed, it's starting to require too many accessories to be
practice any more, I remember the good old days when all you needed was a paper
that cost less than a penny


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7808586 - 12/28/07 10:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

lol
im a singer so im getting a vap so i wont damage my voice

is the metal grinder necessary or wil a cheap acrylic or just no grinder work fine?


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808588 - 12/28/07 10:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You might as well get a space case grinder if you're going to be grinding up all your weed, it'll collect the kif in the nice lil tray at the bottom and you'll love watching that mountain build up on an easily scrapable surface.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808593 - 12/28/07 10:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

id love to, but i can just barely afford the vaporizer, and thats only because i havent smoked in like 3 weeks so i could save my money >.<
i just want something thatll work for now


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808606 - 12/28/07 11:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zinglons Acolyte said:
lol
im a singer so im getting a vap so i wont damage my voice





then give up smoking if your interested in protecting your voice, a vaporizor is shitty insurance


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7808611 - 12/28/07 11:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

vaps minimize the damage to a point where it becomes negligable, plus i only smoke herb, dont ever touch tobacco, tobacco is WAY worse


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Registered: 12/03/07
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808618 - 12/28/07 11:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

vaporizer isnt smoking, cause it heats the thc to its boiling point where it becomes a gas, and it doesnt burn anything, creating a vapor that is 95% active ingredient as opposed to the 20% or so of a joint (dont quote me on the numbers


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808622 - 12/28/07 11:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zinglons Acolyte said:
vaps minimize the damage to a point where it becomes negligable,




I hear a lot of this and other than stuff quoted from places like hightimes and pro-weed sources I'm yet to see any evidence on the claims about vaporizers


Quote:

tobacco is WAY worse





commercial tobacco maybe


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808626 - 12/28/07 11:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zinglons Acolyte said:
vaporizer isnt smoking, cause it heats the thc to its boiling point where it becomes a gas, and it doesnt burn anything, creating a vapor that is 95% active ingredient as opposed to the 20% or so of a joint (dont quote me on the numbers





whats the evap point for the other 300 chemicals in the plant matter


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808643 - 12/28/07 11:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

the other 330 chemicals or so are created by burning (especially the tar), which happens at a higher temerature than the cannabanoids' collective boiling points

nothing in cannabis is toxic, the toxic materials are created from the burning of the plant matter


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808700 - 12/28/07 11:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

again it sounds like the 'medical sales pitch' that all the pro-pot and sales sites use, where are the independent studies


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7808716 - 12/28/07 11:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy2.html
Quote:

Harmful toxins in marijuana smoke can be effectively avoided by a vaporization device, according to a new study by California NORML and MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) with support from a grant from the MPP (Marijuana Policy Project).

The study, conducted by Chemic Labs in Canton, Mass., tested vapors from cannabis heated in an herbal vaporizer known as the Volcano® ( manufactured by Storz & Bickel GmbH&Co. KG, Tuttlingen, Germany www.storz-bickel.com) and compared them to smoke produced by combusted marijuana. The Volcano® is designed to heat material to temperatures of 130° to 230° C (266° to 446° F) where medically active vapors are produced, but below the threshold of combustion where smoke is formed.

The vapors from the Volcano® were found to consist overwhelmingly of THC, the major active component in marijuana, whereas the combusted smoke contained over 100 other chemicals, including several polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), carcinogenic toxins that are common in tobacco smoke. The respiratory hazards of marijuana and tobacco smoke are due to toxic byproducts of combustion, not the active ingredients in the plant, known as cannabinoids.

The study suggests that medical marijuana patients can avoid the respiratory hazards of smoking by using a vaporizer. In its 1999 report on medical marijuana, the Institute of Medicine recommended against long-term use of smoked marijuana because of the health risks of smoking. However, the IOM failed to take account of vaporizers.

Previous studies have found that vaporizers can reduce harmful toxins in cannabis smoke. However this is the first study to analyze the gas phase of the vapor for a wide range of toxins. A previous NORML/MAPS study conducted by Chemic Labs found that a vaporizer known as the M-1 Volatizer® (www.volatizer.com) completely eliminated three specific toxins (naphthalene, benzene and toluene) in. the solid phase of the vapor (D. Gieringer, "Cannabis Vaporization: A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction," Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics Vol. 1#3-4: 153-70 (2001); www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy1.html).

The new study used a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer (GCMS) to examine the gas components of the vapor. .The analysis showed that the Volcano® vapor was remarkably clean, consisting 95% of THC with traces of cannabinol (CBN), another cannabinoid. The remaining 5% consisted of small amounts of three other components: one suspected cannabinoid relative, one suspected PAH, and caryophyllene, a fragrant oil in cannabis and other plants. In contrast over 111 different components appeared in the gas of the combusted smoke, including a half dozen known PAHs. Non-cannabinoids accounted for as much as 88% of the total gas content of the smoke.

The study used standard NIDA cannabis with 4% THC content. A quantitative analysis found that the Volcano® delivered 46% of the THC into vapor following three 45-second exposures of the sample to the heat. This compares favorably with the typical efficiency of marijuana cigarettes as observed in other studies, which depending on conditions can fall below 25% due to loss of THC in sidestream smoke. An important feature of the Volcano® is that it uses a balloon to capture the vapor, thereby avoiding leakage to the air. It is possible that higher THC efficiencies could have been reached with the Volcano® by stirring the sample around and exposing it to more heat.

The combusted sample achieved a relatively high THC efficiency of 78% upon complete combustion. The high efficiency seems due to the fact that the sample was completely consumed by combustion, and that smoke leakage was effectively prevented by the laboratory setup. Similar conditions do not obtain under normal circumstances when a marijuana cigarette is smoked and much of the THC is lost to the air or left in the unburned "roach."

Two other cannabinoids , cannabidiol (CBD) and cannabinol (CBN), were detected in the NIDA cannabis in trace amounts of 0.1%. Both the Volcano® and combustion delivered an apparent increase in CBD and CBN, but the variance of the data was too high to reach statistically significant conclusions.

Sponsors believe that the study results lend support for wider use of vaporizers by medical marijuana patients and researchers. At present, the only FDA-approved method for administering marijuana to human research subjects is via smoking NIDA cigarettes. NORML and MAPS are supporting efforts to have vaporizers approved by the FDA. As a first step in this effort, Dr. Donald Abrams of the University of California, San Francisco, has submitted a grant proposal to the California Center for Medical Cannabis Research in San Diego to test the Volcano® in human subjects. If the protocol is funded and the Volcano® approved by the FDA for human research, it will be the first human study using a vaporizer. If the FDA requests additional laboratory data about the Volcano@, additional funding may be necessary.




--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808752 - 12/28/07 11:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

medial ads, lol.

independent study, not something paid for by Volcano®


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7808778 - 12/28/07 11:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

THC boils at 390 degrees.
the autoignition point of Methylbenzene (toluene) is less than 100 degrees higher


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808779 - 12/28/07 11:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

actually this is a study from norml on vaporizers, the volcano was just the one that as used cause its the best one out there atm

and they did use instruments that have big names (yes i know what they are, doesnt change the fact they have big names)

anyway, i know that its less harmful than smoking it (which is only a small risk anyway)

frankly i want it cause ppl say you can make your bud go 5x longer, which greatly appeals to me

we could go on like this arguing for days, and it wont answer my question about needing a grinder... lol


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7808788 - 12/29/07 12:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

the boiling point of toluene is 225F, that's another in your lung with the vaporizor

all I'm aying is before you lay out a big chunk of dough, know everything, ask
shit tons of questions and know whether or not your getting ripped through
advanced marketing which is all I see of vaporizors


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7808794 - 12/29/07 12:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

exactly how much toluene is a bowl of pot?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: hands free vapor brothers worth it? [Re: debianlinux]
    #7808797 - 12/29/07 12:02 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

just as much as it contains


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