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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water)
    #7725004 - 12/06/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Out of three batches of about 12-24 jars each, I've had consistently slow colonization (2 months+), and a high percentage rate of jars which just "stop" colonizing. This has almost never been caused by bacterial growth. I'm using medium/fine grade vermiculite, with no additives, purified drinking water, two different types of "organic" no-additive BRF, and three allegedly different strains of cubensis (gt, mex, ecuador) with near-identical results.

Out of 60+ jars I've had about 10 half-colonized jars, and 2 fully colonized jars (which took ~2 months to achieve). I've attributed some of this to the possibility of my cakes being packed "too tightly", although I've always made sure to pack as loosely as possible.

I blame my cake ratios, as I've been relatively thorough in most aspects of inoculation and incubation, including sterilization (PC & very nice glove box), tub-in-tub incubation at 75dF, much patience.

I've followed several teks' ratios now, including several that have been suggested in threads similar to this. These include:

Quote:

PF-Tek for Simple Minds: 3.5 verm : 1 BRF : ~1 water (capacity)
RogerRabbit's video: 2 verm : 1 BRF : ~1 water
Other video: 8 verm : 3 BRF : 4 water




These are obviously not that different, with the exception of the first one using almost double the amount of vermiculite as other teks.

I'd like to get more specific though, as I've experimented within "reasonal" amounts, and I still get consistently poor colonization. One thing I suspect is that field capacity of water might be too much, as that leaves very little room for air in the jars.

Please provide your educated opinions, and ratios that you have used that have worked well. I've seen most of the teks and videos, so please don't quote them at me. I'd like experience here, or other suggestions based on actual successful grows. PMs would be helpful, but I'm sure others are having similar difficulties. Thanks much in advance.

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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7725011 - 12/06/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i use rr's ratio all the time and they ALWAYS turn out great.

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OfflineNibin
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7725014 - 12/06/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are you tamping down the substrate too much?

Do you take the foil/tape off the jars (unless the tape is micropore) ?


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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: Nibin]
    #7725025 - 12/06/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I experimented with removing the covers for gas exchange, usually in between 50-75% colonization, but it led to contaminations in most, and no visible benefit at best.

No, I do not pack or "tamp" the jars, I aim for an airy substrate.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7725027 - 12/06/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If you used the ratio shown in my video and still have slow colonization, I'd say you have a gas exchange problem. That's the most common cause of stalling/slow colonization. At normal room temperature, a 1/2 pint cake should be fully colonized in two to three weeks. Check that the inoculation holes are open for gas exchange.
RR


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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7725035 - 12/06/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

RR, you suggest openening for gas exchange..

The majority of my cakes are "stopping" at 1/2cm to 1cm "circles", at which point I would imagine opening the jar would be too early. Am I mistaken here, should I not seal them to begin with?

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OfflineNibin
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7725041 - 12/06/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

just take the tape and foil off. THe dry verm barrier will protect your cakes, unless it is getting wet in the sterilizing process or you forgot to wipe down the edges before you put the verm in.


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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: Nibin]
    #7725050 - 12/06/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'll do an entire batch this way, and observe the differences. Can gas exchange really make the difference between almost completely failed cakes to fully successful, speedy colonization?

Another possibility is "old" BRF. I'm using 100% additive free BRF, but it is about 3-4 months old, but it has been sealed and refrigerated.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7725053 - 12/06/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shroom_ninja said:
I'll do an entire batch this way, and observe the differences. Can gas exchange really make the difference between almost completely failed cakes to fully successful, speedy colonization?





Yep. That simple.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: Fraggin]
    #7725066 - 12/06/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Having the holes in the lid plugged is the same as putting a plastic bag over your head and trying to run a five minute mile. Living organisms require air to breathe.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Ideal Cake Ratio (brf : verm : water) [Re: Fraggin]
    #7725073 - 12/06/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I bookmarked this thread. I'll follow through with this and since I imagine others have had or will have this problem, I'll check back.

I appreciate the help,
ninja

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