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Offlinelonestar2004
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UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output
    #7626895 - 11/12/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

“Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations’ independent expert on the right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a growing “catastrophe” for the poor. “


A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry.


Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations' independent expert on the right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a growing "catastrophe" for the poor.


Scientific research is progressing very quickly, he said, "and in five years it will be possible to make biofuel and biodiesel from agricultural waste" rather than wheat, corn, sugar cane and other food crops.


Using biofuel instead of gasoline in cars is generally considered to cut carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to global warming, although some scientists say greenhouse gases released during the production of biofuel could offset those gains.


The use of crops for biofuel has being pursued especially in Brazil and the United States.


Last March, President Bush and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signed an agreement committing their countries to boosting ethanol production. They said increasing use of alternative fuels would lead to more jobs, a cleaner environment and greater independence from the whims of the oil market.


Ziegler called their motives legitimate, but said that "the effect of transforming hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of maize, of wheat, of beans, of palm oil, into agricultural fuel is absolutely catastrophic for the hungry people."


The world price of wheat doubled in one year and the price of corn quadrupled, leaving poor countries, especially in Africa, unable to pay for the imported food needed to feed their people, he said. And poor people in those countries are unable to pay the soaring prices for the food that does come in, he added.


"So it's a crime against humanity" to devote agricultural land to biofuel production, Ziegler said a news conference. "What has to be stopped is ... the growing catastrophe of the massacre (by) hunger in the world," he said.


As an example, he said, it takes 510 pounds of corn to produce 13 gallons of ethanol. That much corn could feed a child in Zambia or Mexico for a year, he said.


Benjamin Chang, a spokesman for the U.S. mission to the United Nations, said the Bush administration didn't consider biofuel development a threat to the poor.


"It's clear we have a commitment to the development of biofuels," he said. "It's also clear that we are committed to combatting poverty and supporting economic development around the world as the leading contributor of overseas development assistance in the world."


Ziegler, a sociology professor at the University of Geneva and the University of the Sorbonne in Paris, presented a report Thursday to the U.N. General Assembly's human rights committee saying a five-year moratorium on biofuel production would allow time for new technologies for using agricultural byproducts instead of food itself.


Researchers are looking at crop residues such as corn cobs, rice husks and banana leaves, he said. "The cultivation of Jatropha Curcas, a shrub that produces large oil-bearing seeds, appears to offer a good solution as it can be grown in arid lands that are not normally suitable for food crops," he said.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/10/26/international/i140436D32.DTL





.



jesus....they don't want us to use oil, don't want us to use coal, don't want us to use nukes, don't want us to use windpower...

they won't be happy till we all freeze in the dark!!!








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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7626929 - 11/12/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What we need to start doing is using biomass for ethanol. It's relatively recently that the technology for doing this efficiently was made, but it's the future of biofuels. It's true that using corn and sugarcane for ethanol production prevents those products from being used for food, thus driving up the price, which doesn't sit well for poor people who just want to eat. What we need to do is set up some biomass ethanol plants and biodiesel conversion facilities and first start using waste products. We can convert agricultural waste into ethanol, and used cooking oil and grease into biodiesel. We can get the rest of our ethanol from common prairie grasses such as switchgrass.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Silversoul]
    #7626987 - 11/12/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Damn i just read some articles about Biofuels...

IMO Ethanol from corn is simply horrible for the environment, it pollutes fresh water with fertilizer, uses up water, isn't economical (requiring Federal and State subsidies), and more.

"waste biomass" does sound better.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7627028 - 11/12/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"waste biomass" does sound better.



Indeed. It kills two birds with one stone: It eliminates waste while at the same time helping us get off of oil. One scientist has actually figured out a way to convert cooking grease into jet fuel, so even flying can be eco-friendly now. Of course, this is all stuff that I read about and see on TV, but it seems like it's taking a long time to actually implement it.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7628074 - 11/12/07 09:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

so instead of taking heavily subsidized crops and using it to benefit
the tax payers that floated the production we should bag it up and
send it to the poor people in other nations?

fucking ludicrous.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7628358 - 11/12/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry.

Why the fuck are people who can't feed themselves having SO MANY FUCKING BABIES?

The problem is not the shift from food crops to fuel crops. The problem is TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES!

And drooling morons like the pope go down to Brazil of all places and tell crowds of poor, starving people numbering in the millions that contraceptives are a sin and that they should have more babies besides because the church needs them to replace dying priests. WTF!

The UN really needs to get is head out of its ass and start working on fixing REAL problems, like TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES in staving parts of the world.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlined33p
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Registered: 07/12/03
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7629233 - 11/13/07 07:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck biofuels, they will significantly increase the price and scarcity of beer.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7629510 - 11/13/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Sam Kinison talks about world hunger (1st Letterman appearance)



--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Loc: The Barricades
Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7629548 - 11/13/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Funny, but of course he forgot to add that in addition to U-hauls, they would need green cards and jobs(not easy if you speak some obscure click-language).


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Offlineallreadyused
The Liquor
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Registered: 09/10/07
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Silversoul]
    #7630157 - 11/13/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Why the fuck are people who can't feed themselves having SO MANY FUCKING BABIES?

The problem is not the shift from food crops to fuel crops. The problem is TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES!




Solution. Eat babies.


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Everything I say is for entertainment.

Fuck the ASPCA

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7630196 - 11/13/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
And drooling morons like the pope go down to Brazil of all places and tell crowds of poor, starving people numbering in the millions that contraceptives are a sin and that they should have more babies besides because the church needs them to replace dying priests. WTF!





Not to mention the current Bush Administration doing the same thing in Africa and creating the global gag rule...probably the most blatantly idiotic maneuver in my lifetime.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Registered: 08/25/06
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: allreadyused]
    #7630200 - 11/13/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

allreadyused said:
Quote:

Why the fuck are people who can't feed themselves having SO MANY FUCKING BABIES?

The problem is not the shift from food crops to fuel crops. The problem is TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES!




Solution. Eat babies.




I've already started... but they can be expensive.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: allreadyused]
    #7630212 - 11/13/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

allreadyused said:
Quote:

Why the fuck are people who can't feed themselves having SO MANY FUCKING BABIES?

The problem is not the shift from food crops to fuel crops. The problem is TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES!




Solution. Eat babies.



http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/modest.html


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Offlineallreadyused
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Silversoul]
    #7630390 - 11/13/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, that guy really put a lot of thought into his proposal.

As far as the original point of this thread. I think countries should solve their own problems before they try to solve the worlds.


--------------------
Everything I say is for entertainment.

Fuck the ASPCA

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7646559 - 11/17/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry.

Why the fuck are people who can't feed themselves having SO MANY FUCKING BABIES?

The problem is not the shift from food crops to fuel crops. The problem is TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES!

And drooling morons like the pope go down to Brazil of all places and tell crowds of poor, starving people numbering in the millions that contraceptives are a sin and that they should have more babies besides because the church needs them to replace dying priests. WTF!

The UN really needs to get is head out of its ass and start working on fixing REAL problems, like TOO MANY FUCKING BABIES in staving parts of the world.





It's not just too many fucking babies -- that's only PART of the problem.

The rest of the problem is that there's plenty of areas in Africa (face it, what other continent faces widespread starvation?) that COULD be, and some that WERE RECENTLY, breadbaskets... but they're underutilized, or just flat out NOT utilized.

Zimbabwe, I'm looking at you, you trainwreck of a goddamned country.


But ultimately you're right. They shouldn't be starving to death, they should be dead. I'm not a fan of anybody dying, but.. an analogy.
You've all got a friend that pulls too hard on everyone else. They need, and they take, and they need and they are given, and it just never stops -- and eventually, you've got to cut those people off or they'll simply continue needing and taking indefinitely.
And, sometimes, after they know they're on their own... they get their shit together!
It's the same situation. Starving Africa is nickel-and-diming everybody to death.

Before it was possible to move such massive quantities of food -- and before anyone cared if people in some far-off place starved -- they WOULD starve. And the survivors would have enough to eat. And as their food production capabilities increased -- OR, as their overall productiveness and thus wealth increased to pay for imported food -- THEN the population would be able to increase to match the increase in food. Population ALWAYS will swell to occupy the totality of a food supply in a natural system, until it either reaches the limit of that food supply (starvation) or reaches some other limiting factor (water, space, disease, predators.. you name it there's a bunch).

Maybe I'm just a mean fuck, but I've never understood the whole idea that we should be supporting starving nations for decades. If there's a short-term disaster, most definitely I think assistance shouldn't even need be asked -- probably the best international consequence of the world power of America is the fact that we CAN and DO respond to disasters with the amount and quality and speed of aide that we do.

But to prop people up for decades while they make no progress to hold themselves up? That's just a bad plan. It does not work.


Of course, biofuel itself is a farce, so whatever.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7646676 - 11/17/07 04:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Of course, biofuel itself is a farce, so whatever.

How so?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7646703 - 11/17/07 05:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

biofuel will not lessen the dependence on foreign oil one bit -- too much energy has to go IN to the system to get ethanol out for it to replace gasoline. of course, the corn lobby LURVES all the attention, but it's not going to break us from the whims of OPEC and oil speculators.

now, if we were using the whole of the plant, and not just the edible, easily-broken-down parts.. then maybe we'd get something. of course, if we could do that, corn wouldn't be the best choice ANYWAY.. a faster-growing plant with no nutrition and little uptake of minerals from the soil would be the ideal candidate.. or even algae or kelp, since we could just flush the water out when it's becoming nutrient-poor and exchange it (which actually would HELP the ocean quality in areas where it's too rich with nutrients from argricultral runoff, such as the Gulf.)


so yes.. it's all a farce. our fuel demands are too high, the net yield is too low, it's just all wrong and half-baked but hey, it looks great if you just get the cliffs notes.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7646763 - 11/17/07 06:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

biofuel will not lessen the dependence on foreign oil one bit

As the biofuel technology and industry develop, this will change.

a faster-growing plant with no nutrition and little uptake of minerals from the soil would be the ideal candidate

Switchgrass!

Switchgrass has the potential to produce the biomass required for production of up to 100 gallons (380 liters) of ethanol per metric ton.[8] This gives switchgrass the potential to produce 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre, compared to 665 gallons for sugarcane and 400 gallons for corn.

That's 250% more ethanol per acre than corn and it grows like wild weeds :thumbup:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7646903 - 11/17/07 07:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Again,... this is where my previous proposal comes in handy.. the idea of making all illegal immigrants run around in giant hamster wheels to provide energy to the United States and also to gain greencards.


Throw in an odometer.. I'd say after about 250 miles they can get a 2 month visa.... 500 miles= greencard

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output [Re: Diploid]
    #7647056 - 11/17/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It should be noted that in addition to switchgrass, we can make cellulosic ethanol from waste biomass, such as lawn clippings, wood chips, and agricultural waste. So can make fuel while at the same time reducing waste.

As for corn ethanol, don't we use a lot of our corn crop these days to make that high fructose corn syrup that's making America a nation of fatasses? You think maybe we could cut back on those corn crops to make room for ethanol?


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