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OfflineBrAiN
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Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question
    #7556106 - 10/24/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I wish I knew more about how the phone lines worked, who owns, them etc.

I have a land line through verizon. On and off for the three months my line sounds like shit.. loud buzzing noise and I can barely hear the person on the other end. I own a condo so I guess I actually own part of the line that goes from the maintenance box to my condo. I bought some kind of insurance plan for it through Verizon.

We called once about it and Verizon said everything is fine on their end after a test and that it was our problem.

It started happening again really bad and then Verizon finally sent a tech out a week or two ago. They said they found a problem with the line that goes from out set of buildings to their office or to the PBX or wherever our lines go to..... that the wires were fucked up and they were getting wet occasionally which was causing the on and off problems.

A few days after that the tech called and said he was coming out to fix it.. then said that the COMCAST guys were there at the same time and fixing the problem on the same line.

First off.. I thought Comcast and Verizon ran on totally difrerent wires. The Verizon dude said comcast fixed the problem and we'd be good to go. Two days later.. NOISE.. STATIC.. BZZZZ>. crap.

We called back again and the cust service agent did a test again and said their tests ran fine again and they it was something on our end.

Personally I think it's bullshit.. we have two jacks and two phones and no matter what combination we use its the same old shit.

Does anyone know if I switch to Vonage or Comcast digital voice or some other phone company... we'd end up using the same lines and would probably have the same problem no matter who we went through?

Also... my other question is.. with Comcast digital voice and Vonage and Cavalier... I'm assuming these companies actually use some sort of digital processing or VOIP. If this is the case.. because the signal is digital and not analog.. would that mean I wouldn't be able to use my fax machine? Sure the end result you end up with virtually the same SOUND as far as human ears go.. but I'm assuming fax machine and old fashioned computer dial up modems might be sensitive to the extra stuff that's lost by not using analog.. kind of the same way a human ear can't tell the difference between regular analog song and an mp3.. but the mp3 is still missing frequencies that the human ear can't detect.

Are ALL the actual phone lines owned by either Verizon or ATT (or in cable's case... COMCAST?) If this is the case.. then if you're running Vonate through a line that's owned by Verizon or owned by Comcast.. aren't these VOIP phone companies really at the mercy of the companies that OWN the lines?

Edited by BrAiN (10/24/07 05:35 PM)

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7556134 - 10/24/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I would be changing companys, as far as im concerned with phone companys, its there job to fix the phone line, weather its out running inside your home or outside or whatever, there providing a service, and if your not satisfied they should fix it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7556138 - 10/24/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

AT&T owns it all, phones at least, AT&T is in the cable business and may also be comcast


be persistant, I've fought for more than a year to get mine taken care of, prior
to that I had them right off a bill because of the service calls, I had those
bastards out every day at that point

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7556150 - 10/24/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
I would be changing companys





it wouldnt matter, it's handled over the same copper, AT&T owns it, they just lease billing rights to other companies.

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7556203 - 10/24/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Get your condo people to re-wire your connection. They should at least punch it down on a different spot on the block if not replacing the entire block (which is actually a lot easier/cheaper than you'd think if you know how). The problem with getting a telco to do it is they usually don't cover inside plant wiring, which would include community properties like condos/apts and some residential homes as well.

Also, I know leviton makes some line noise reducers, like this. All I gotta say is I'm glad I'm out of the telecomm tech business, fixing shit like that for whiney customers is lame! :laugh:


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: unbeliever]
    #7556213 - 10/24/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Oh and ps, you need analog for 99% of fax machines.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: unbeliever]
    #7556458 - 10/24/07 06:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

unbeliever said:
Oh and ps, you need analog for 99% of fax machines.




So vonage, cavalier, comcast digital voice wouldn't work with regular old fax machines you get at staples? I'd have to use Verizon?

Also... those international caling cards.. I'm pretty sure they use some kind of VOIP for the ridiculously cheap rates.. I'm assuming even if you use one of these cards for a fax... that fax wouldnt work?

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: unbeliever]
    #7556466 - 10/24/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

unbeliever said:
Get your condo people to re-wire your connection. They should at least punch it down on a different spot on the block if not replacing the entire block (which is actually a lot easier/cheaper than you'd think if you know how). The problem with getting a telco to do it is they usually don't cover inside plant wiring, which would include community properties like condos/apts and some residential homes as well.

Also, I know leviton makes some line noise reducers, like this. All I gotta say is I'm glad I'm out of the telecomm tech business, fixing shit like that for whiney customers is lame! :laugh:





My condo fees don't cover that shit.. any work like that I'd have to pay for. Fortunately, like I said... I got some kinda unsurance plan with verizon to cover that.. of course I'm sure they'll try to weasel their wayout of having to resort to that until they've exhaused every resource.

227 bucks a month and i dont know where the fuck that money goes... structure insurance and property repairs and that's it (they're doing shitloads of work replacing wood and siding (sp?) which is nice). They supposedly cover water also but I still get a 180-200 bill from the gov't every 3 months.

I swear.. once you buy a place then EVERYONE tries to get their hands in your pocket

I should have moved out into the boonies and gotten a house instead of a condo

Edited by BrAiN (10/24/07 07:03 PM)

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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7556936 - 10/24/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

LOL

you're in luck

this is what I do for a living- for verizon even!

OK- first off,you need to know a bit of telephony. Yes, verizon and comcast will both own parts of your line.

there are 24 "phone lines" or 56k lines per T1, then there are 28 T1s per T3, then it just goes exponentially up to OCs.

anyway, sure Verizon might own your particular 56k line, and possibly the T1 it rides on, but comcast might own the T3, or something else higher up- that's why comcast may have been involved.

OR- which this is more likely - Verizon might not own the CO (central office- think little hub with a switchboard for all the phones lines with your area code+prefix) and comcast owns that CO, that's why they were brought in.

OK, second of all- yes, past the DMARC (DMARC= point where vrzn ends responsibility and you take control ) - is your responsibility. If verizon and comcast are all testing clean- then you probably want to pull in a vendor to install new wire from the dmarc into your condo.

It'll probably cost a couple hundred bucks but it'll be worth it... how long ago was the condo built? it probably has ANCIENT copper wire.

Vonage is VoIP (voice over internet protocol) so it's all digital and over the internet- you aren't going to experience attenuation with VoIP. I also might add Vonage doesn't provide the actual CONNECTION- you have to get a broadband connection yourself. Vonage only provides a virtual number that will ride that broadband connection.

VoIP is the way to go. Just make sure you update 911 info if you move, since it's a "virtual" number not connected to a fixed area.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7556966 - 10/24/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

veda_sticks said:
I would be changing companys





it wouldnt matter, it's handled over the same copper, AT&T owns it, they just lease billing rights to other companies.




not true. Tons of LECs have laid their own fiber. I know Qwest owns all of it's fiber in their 14 inregion states. If verizon owns his landline then they are the LEC. The whole point of a LEC is that they own the local lines. there are few instances where a small ILEC or CLEC will "resale" the local lines- but they are usually small, localized companies. Verizon can definitely afford their own wire.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: StonedShroom]
    #7558098 - 10/25/07 06:25 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

StonedShroom said:
LOL

you're in luck

this is what I do for a living- for verizon even!

OK- first off,you need to know a bit of telephony. Yes, verizon and comcast will both own parts of your line.

there are 24 "phone lines" or 56k lines per T1, then there are 28 T1s per T3, then it just goes exponentially up to OCs.

anyway, sure Verizon might own your particular 56k line, and possibly the T1 it rides on, but comcast might own the T3, or something else higher up- that's why comcast may have been involved.

OR- which this is more likely - Verizon might not own the CO (central office- think little hub with a switchboard for all the phones lines with your area code+prefix) and comcast owns that CO, that's why they were brought in.

OK, second of all- yes, past the DMARC (DMARC= point where vrzn ends responsibility and you take control ) - is your responsibility. If verizon and comcast are all testing clean- then you probably want to pull in a vendor to install new wire from the dmarc into your condo.

It'll probably cost a couple hundred bucks but it'll be worth it... how long ago was the condo built? it probably has ANCIENT copper wire.

Vonage is VoIP (voice over internet protocol) so it's all digital and over the internet- you aren't going to experience attenuation with VoIP. I also might add Vonage doesn't provide the actual CONNECTION- you have to get a broadband connection yourself. Vonage only provides a virtual number that will ride that broadband connection.

VoIP is the way to go. Just make sure you update 911 info if you move, since it's a "virtual" number not connected to a fixed area.





You da man dude. I had to take a class that went over OCwhatsits and ATM and shit in college.. but I don't remember a damn thing.

My condo is about 20 years old. I guess it's old enough.

I've got a comcast Internet connection. I've always been tempted to go with a voip service like vonage or comcast digital voice, but I'd like to still have a dial tone if the internet went out. The internet makes my life easier and it up 99% of the time... but that's not enough for me to trust myself to run my phone over it.

Also... do you happen to know if fax machines would work with a voip service like vonage? Like I mentioned before... I'd assume the answer is either NO or that I'd need a special converter due to the fact that the signal is DIGITAL and some frequencies (which aren't audible to humans but to fax machines) might be lost?

I think verizon would cover the cost if I had to require that cable you're talking about. We had ANOTHER problem past this DMARC you mention when we first moved in. We basically had no dial tone when we first moved in and got Verizon. A tech came out and tried to charge me a couple hundred bucks to fix the problem. Instead, he just sold me some insurance plan for Verizon for homeowners like me who actually own their own wires.

My biggest problem is that the problem isn't CONSTANT. It will happen all day on random days.. maybe once or twice a week. So when the tech comes out, it might be fine and almost impossible to test.

Luckily the last time the tech came out, the problem was happening so he was able to "figure out the problem". He said with confidence it was a problem with verizon and they'd have to dig up some wires in the community in a couple weeks.. which suprised me because only two days later the problem was supposedly fixed. And I didn't see any damn digging.

This is why I've got the feeling this problem is going to take forever to fix. Either because the problem doesn't happen all the time or I get different opinions from the techs and cust service agents and everyone who doesn't know who to blame.

If the problem goes on for too long I'm thinking about dumping Verizon and just going with Vonage. The only problem is I have a fax machine I use at home which probably won't work if I do that. I'll have to do some research to see if there's any software I can use.

One of my web hosting companies can set me up with a virtual fax line for a descent cost... where people can fax to my number and I'll receive the documents via email in PDF. I'm willing to pay for the service, but the problem is I wouldn't be able to SEND. I suppose I could get an all-in-one printer that could scan to PDF and I could just email that to people... but some people are still going to need regular old faxes.

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OfflineJackal
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7558268 - 10/25/07 08:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What's annoying is, is what they say is true "your pair getting wet thus earthing" - It's a bit of piss to sort - sounds like they being awkward.


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: Jackal]
    #7559198 - 10/25/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

not really. faulty F2 pairs and exposed cables are a common problem.

and yeah- VoIP is good to have, but fax and alram lines cannot ride voip. I would suggest keeping a basic line active for fax and voip outages. since broadband is getting more popular and most connections are redundant it's getting more stable.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: StonedShroom]
    #7559214 - 10/25/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Alarms I don'tm really care about.. I've got a baseball bat and a smoke detector :wink:

The faxing would be a pain in the ass though. Like I said... I can pay for a phone number where ppl can fax things to and I'll get them via pdf/email.

Not sure how one can SEND a fax over the internet. Anyone know any software that allows you to do this?

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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: BrAiN]
    #7559222 - 10/25/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, a program called efax

also, why are you so bent on a fax machine? it's becoming a lost technology now that everyone has email and can send attachments.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


Edited by StonedShroom (10/25/07 01:23 PM)

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Any networking/PBX geeks? Verizon question [Re: StonedShroom]
    #7559305 - 10/25/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Meh. I run my own business outta my home. It's always needed every now and then.. especially when you deal with a lot of dinosaurs (older real estate agents and the like) that are set in their ways.

When you're a small business.. it's better to bend towards the needs of prospective clients.

Plus it just seems more professional to have it available.

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