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chubbycharley
the chubbiest ofthe charleys
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sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind
#7545450 - 10/22/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i feel the greatest lesson that mankind will learn in the next few years is that the order our egos try to exert on chaos will invariably revert back to chaos.
i see it everywhere:
why are forest fires raging like never before? because for the last 100 years we thought it would be a good idea to put out all the forest fires we found. now there is a huge build-up of fuel (dry, dead wood) on the forest floor and as soon as it sparks, WHOOSH. perhaps we should have let a few of them burn as they would have without our intervention.
why do buildings fall down? a building is a large group of chaotic material that has been harvested and re-structured to resemble permanence. because the earth's crust that we are standing on is in a state of constant chaotic flux, earthquakes take out our carefully planned communities as a painter paints over a canvas.
why do governments never work? because a government is an imaginary entity that is built from the chaotic soup of what people think is right and wrong, something that may never stop changing. a government is the utmost example of human egoic exertion. egos get tired and governments fall.
why do sandcastles fall apart? because gravity acts on the grains of sand in such a chaotic way that they can not possibly stand for very long without regrouping into the chaotic soup that is the beach. they can only stand as long as they are protected by human egos, a lot like a government only not just in our heads.
you may notice a theme: chaos
it is easy to find examples of chaos. just look outside. look at the paint peeling off your wall. look at the sky, the ground, all around and you will surly see chaos all around you.
before civilization there was chaos, no? every civilization that has come was built from an ideal order established by some ones ego and was/will be destroyed by chaos.
this chaos has been expressed in the form of multiple abrasive egos that grind against each other. each with their own limiting idea of a permanent world. the funny part is that as long as there is an ego, the awareness behind it will not see the chaos.
the lesson that needs to be learned is that chaos is the default state of life and any sort of permanence is false. i think this realization may come to most people around the year 2012. at least from this view that is the way the parabolic curve of society's destruction seems to be headed.
2012 will not be the apocalypse, just the point on the timeline where society resets and where all ideas of permanence will be shattered. you will only shatter if you are an ego that wants to believe that everything is permanent.
therefore, if you shatter your ideas of permanence than you will survive the apocalypse.
what are your thoughts/observations/delusions?
-------------------- if i'm just a stoned stoner, sayin some stoned ass shit, please correct me
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makaveli8x8
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: chubbycharley]
#7545499 - 10/22/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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maybe in 2012 the idea of chaos is shattered. Theirs one big difference between rome and us, computers/machines. Those in power are using them to ensure permanence, and i don't see many ways it will fall. Its almost exactly like the movie I robot or w/e.
whats gunna shatter is our free will, through the ages we have always had a choice in life, good or bad....computers will whip that away or limit it so much that it barely feels like a choice.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: chubbycharley]
#7545506 - 10/22/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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If all your shit was gonna get burned by a fire you'd want them fighting it too.
And of course buildings don't last forever. I doubt anybody has honestly ever claimed that one would.
People generally do the best they can with what they have to suit their needs/preferences/obligations. That's all it boils down to, really. Some things in our world are total shit but it could be a lot worse. Life is cruel.
As for 2012, do yourself a favor and edit all of that out, unless you want your thread to get ignored.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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makaveli8x8
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Grok]
#7545527 - 10/22/07 01:22 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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their is alot of talk about 2012 don't see what the problem with that would be?
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: makaveli8x8]
#7545603 - 10/22/07 02:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I won't make any of my own observations, I do have some questions for you though because I like big ideas such as the one you have presented.
What is this underlying chaos you speak of? Is it the matrix consciousness or source consciousness? Or do you simply mean the lack of law and order?
You say you will only shatter if you are an ego that believes in permanence. Would this cultural shift potentate the amount of choices an individual makes, an increase in individuation?
You believe that this would have a huge cost of tearing the individual away from the matrix of life, but it would move us in a direction towards recontextualizing the individual into a conscious relationship with the background awareness they are embedded in? A true self-reflective consciousness which is self-emergent, self -directing, self-learning self-creating which nourishes and supports the matrix?
This would certainly frighten the ego, and could open a space for some kind of global consciousness. This could be where we are headed, although 2012 seems wayyyy too early of a goal. IMO this simply won't happen in our lifetimes. Where did you get these ideas from? Sounds like something based off Rupert Sheldrake or Chris Bache.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: EternalCowabunga]
#7545643 - 10/22/07 02:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i think part of his idea is from the 2012 idea's. The Mayan calender ends their, but I'm not sure who said it first but the main idea is that life doesn't neaccarly end on that date, we change as a whole? think thats pretty much the gist
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Kinematics
coyote vision
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: makaveli8x8]
#7546023 - 10/22/07 08:28 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll add the following, which I think is in line with what the original poster meant to convey in his post.
There is a river flowing very fast. It is so swift, there are those who will be afraid. They will try to hold onto the shore. They will feel they are being torn apart And will suffer greatly. Know that the river has a destination. The elders say we must let go of the shore, Push off into the middle of the river. And I say, see who is in there with you and celebrate! At this time in history we are to take nothing personally, Least of all ourselves. For the moment we do, our spiritual growth comes to a halt. The time of the lone wolf is over. Gather yourselves together, as we are tonight. Banish the word "struggle" from your attitude and vocabulary. All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner And in celebration. We are the ones we are waiting for. Ahoy!
-Hopi saying
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: chubbycharley]
#7546300 - 10/22/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i feel the greatest lesson that mankind will learn in the next few years is that the order our egos try to exert on chaos will invariably revert back to chaos.
I very much agree. Humanity will not learn it through awareness and humility but kicking and screaming and in the last moments as the structure crumbles and we finally realize IT AIN'T ALL ABOUT US AND IT WASN'T DESIGNED WITH US IN MIND.
But for individuals who do develope awareness of Tao and find the humility to know their place in the vast picture, the time is now.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kinematics
coyote vision
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Icelander]
#7546541 - 10/22/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: kicking and screaming and in the last moments as the structure crumbles and we finally realize IT AIN'T ALL ABOUT US AND IT WASN'T DESIGNED WITH US IN MIND.
This made me laugh. It's the truth however.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Icelander]
#7546624 - 10/22/07 12:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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"[...] IT WASN'T DESIGNED WITH US IN MIND. " If I may b short with this. Not with US in mind, but probably with the principle inherent within us, developed through evolution... conscious (spiritual) aware mind itself. [Which we haven't developed enough, yet, of course ]
Edited by BlueCoyote (10/22/07 12:59 PM)
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Clean
the lense
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Posts: 2,374
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Icelander]
#7546668 - 10/22/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
But for individuals who do develop awareness of Tao and find the humility to know their place in the vast picture, the time is now.
What if there really is no picture, no observer, no gallery, no photographer, no individuality...all depend on the perception of separateness. All are connected. Separation is illusion. Humility is letting go of the perception of the separate self and surrendering to the one (tao).
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Clean]
#7549201 - 10/22/07 09:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not so sure that one needs to let go of the perception of a separate self. Life has structured itself so for some purpose or other or no purpose.
I'm not even sure it's really possible. Humility for me would be knowing that the separate self isn't the whole show. This way I accept my place in the scheme of things.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Icelander]
#7549214 - 10/22/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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You are merely an ice shard in the glacier of life.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7549227 - 10/22/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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At the most.
As the Universe expands Icelander gets smaller and smaller. Nothing to get much concerned about.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: Icelander]
#7549249 - 10/22/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Your shrinkage issue has been much gossiped...
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mikebart101
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7550002 - 10/23/07 05:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know. I think 2012 is the year we find the first monolith and discover that it is man made and 14 billion years old; imagine the implications.
-------------------- So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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chubbycharley
the chubbiest ofthe charleys
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: mikebart101]
#7550613 - 10/23/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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2012 has certain connotations for most people that i'm not referring to. there is a lot of people who think it will be the end of the world. i see it as the culmination of technology's interaction with man. i guess that's open to interpretation. the only reason i say 2012 is because of people's connotations. they think i'm talking about the end of the world. but i'm talking about the end of our social era. things like this build momentum until they explode. all i'm saying is that i see the bend in the road ahead and it looks to not be too far off. or as the case may be, the bridge that is out. at the same time, i'm not walking on that road, i'm off to the side observing all the people who have trapped themselves into believing in their egos permanence, or lack there of, and into believing that they are on the only road there is. i think that road is coming to an end. that is what i mean by 2012.
EternalCowabunga, the chaos i'm speaking of is the force behind all doings. the lack of law and order would be a doing and so is pushed by chaos. that force is chaos, it is love, it is god. it's the term i'm using to describe the indefinable.
from my point of view, there is a breakdown of socio-political egos that rule our societies and it is following a parabolic curve. it is being exacerbated by natural disasters and political unease.
a parabola is a curve that gets exponentially more and more steep. the farther you go, the faster you move. near the end of the parabola the line is nearly vertical and comes much sooner than you might think. the way things are headed with our pals in the white house and parliament, who must be trying to start WWIII, it looks like a rapidly ascending parabolic curve to me. i'm seeing more and more "bad" things happen. things that slowly annunciate the impermanence of our world. things are breaking down, especially politically but also environmentally. there is a record drought in the south-east US right now. water levels are down ~30ft in some areas! it seems as though our seasons are changing, and more so each year. huge fires in the west. the canary islands are slowly falling into the pacific, poised to send a monstrous wave at america (ever see that "super tsunami" show on the discovery channel?). chaos is churning.
Quote:
You say you will only shatter if you are an ego that believes in permanence. Would this cultural shift potentate the amount of choices an individual makes, an increase in individuation?
this cannot increase the amount of choices an individual makes because that is infinite. it can only destroy the individuals so that all that is left is one.
Quote:
but it would move us in a direction towards recontextualizing the individual into a conscious relationship with the background awareness they are embedded in?
this can't happen to an individual. when there is consciousness growing, expanding, there is a destruction of individual, of ego.
Quote:
This could be where we are headed, although 2012 seems wayyyy too early of a goal. IMO this simply won't happen in our lifetimes.
not if we have anything to do about it ('we' as in our individual egos). we would like to take our merry-old time, just wait until tomorrow to start. but i have already started, so have most of you. most of us have an understanding of impermanence. those that don't will be shattered when all they thought they had was gone. they will shatter because they think what the lose is them selves. and it is, they are just afraid to look beyond themselves, to see the chaos, to push off into the middle of the river.
btw, who are Rupert Sheldrake and Chris Bache?
-------------------- if i'm just a stoned stoner, sayin some stoned ass shit, please correct me
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BlueCoyote
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: chubbycharley]
#7550657 - 10/23/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe humans need some virtual date in time to make a change happen. Like in a personal scheduler
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psilocybeen
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deleted
Edited by psilocybeen (09/28/12 08:52 PM)
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Divided_Sky
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Re: sandcastles, 2012, and the greatest lesson of mankind [Re: psilocybeen]
#7553329 - 10/23/07 11:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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chubbycharley, you make a very good point. However, I have to disagree that human order is overlayed onto chaos, but rather human permeneance and simplicity on impernanence and infinity. I do believe the universe is very elegant and structured, though it is dynamic, infinite and in constant flux.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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