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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS
Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate?
#7513265 - 10/13/07 07:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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First of all I don't get why we're supposed to lime. I thought fungus liked low pH and bacteria liked higher pH...
Secondly should a horsepoo bulk substrate with coco coir and coffee grounds be limed? If so, how much? I can't find this anywhere.
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automan
blasted chipmunk
Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7513269 - 10/13/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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no lime on hpoo.
also, no need for the coffee
-------------------- No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7513288 - 10/13/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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coffee is acidic. coir is acidic. so yes, you should add some hydrated lime and gypsum to the mix.
you're backwards on your thinking. it's mold you're worried about growing, not bacteria so much. mold like it acidic, and cannot survive when the pH is up above 7.5 or so. so mushroom mycelium can survive both in low and high pH ranges. where mold mycelium can only survive in low pH ranges, not high. that's why you up the pH with hydrated lime.
using hydrated lime is especially helpful in a home where there is a high ambient spore load. like for those that live in the PNW.
just as important as pH is fresh air exchange (FAE). Keep your air exchanges high, and keep the air turbulent to ruin the day for mold spores. if they sit in stale air, they can germinate on the surfaces they land on. but if the air is constantly kicking them all about, they don't get the chance to land, chill and germinate.
the real way to tell is to get a pH meter and stick it into the finished bulk substrate and read the pH. if it is below 7.0, I would add hydrated lime, and I'm sure it probably will be. See for yourself.
as to not make this an argument, take this simply as my advice.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 29 days
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: monstermitch]
#7513345 - 10/13/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree. No lime.
Gyspsum yes, but no lime. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic substrate, and since we pasteurize horse manure and then allow it to fully colonize, it's resistant to contamination. Therefore, a pH in the 5.5 to 6.5 range is perfect. I used to add a touch of lime to bulk substrates, but no longer do and performance is better.
We add lime to casing layers to protect them against molds, since they don't fully colonize with mushroom mycelium.
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7513366 - 10/13/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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so even if you don't use a casing layer... you still wouldn't add lime? simply because the substrate will fully coloniize?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 29 days
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: monstermitch]
#7513378 - 10/13/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Correct. No lime in manure substrates. Cased or uncased. Performance will be higher. Besides, gypsum tends to stabilize the substrate into the mid to upper 6's. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7513400 - 10/13/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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okay then...
I too will experiment. hopefully also finding better performance. it's what we all are after in the end.
thanks
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS
Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: monstermitch]
#7513444 - 10/13/07 08:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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How big a difference is it if you don't use gypsum? Is it really that important?
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automan
blasted chipmunk
Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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Re: Am I supposed to put lime into my horsepoo bulk substate? [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7513473 - 10/13/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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no really, no
-------------------- No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
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