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InvisibleTODAY
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400w HPS vs 1000w HPS
    #7506298 - 10/10/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

During my last grow I had two 400w HPS in a 4ftx4ft room and got about 9oz from the harvest. 9oz*28g = 252g total harvest

252g/800w = .315g/watt

Yeah, well, I know this isn't very great and I wasn't optimizing with my grow space as I could have been (I wasn't using clones and I was growing many diff varieties). But I was wondering what a 1000w would do to my g/watt ratio if the only thing I did was open the canopy to 5ftx5ft.

Also, is hydro easy to get into and do yields generally increase and grow cycle decrease?


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: TODAY]
    #7506827 - 10/10/07 07:54 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah, well, I know this isn't very great and I wasn't optimizing with my grow space as I could have been (I wasn't using clones and I was growing many diff varieties). But I was wondering what a 1000w would do to my g/watt ratio if the only thing I did was open the canopy to 5ftx5ft.



A 1000watt is pretty much perfect for a 4x4 foot space.

Quote:

Also, is hydro easy to get into and do yields generally increase and grow cycle decrease?


Hydro is great but it's not the save all save all that it's claimed to be but in most cases it will out do soil.


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: Magash]
    #7507087 - 10/10/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

your not likely to see a massive difference when u are actually comparing 800w against 1000w :shrug:

hydro will probably increase your yields if done correctly.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7507400 - 10/10/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i thought 1000W put out way more lumens per watt then 400w?

i saw something on hg420 or icmag or the like about 1000W HPS being like (this is just comparison of difference i remember, not actual statistics) 120lumen/watt or something comapred to 400W HPS which was like 80lu/watt.

someone was considering mixing a 600W HPS and 400W HPS to equal a 1000W HPS and everyone proved to him that he would be missing out on like 12k lumens or something than if he had purchased a 1000W to begin with.

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7507457 - 10/10/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yeah and a 1000w pushes them lumens farther down than even 3 400 watters could.
someone in another forum explained it like the difference between a garden hose and a fire hose.

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Offlineshruman
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: cpw1971]
    #7507493 - 10/10/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

U can get the 400's a good bit closer than a 1000 cause of the intense heat from a 1000, 2 light sources give u better total coverage.

600's have the best lumen per watt ratio if ur looking for another light 600's can't be beat. From memory there aint a big diff between 1000 & 400 L/watt but 600's significantly outperorm them.

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: shruman]
    #7507521 - 10/10/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shruman said:
U can get the 400's a good bit closer than a 1000 cause of the intense heat from a 1000, 2 light sources give u better total coverage.

600's have the best lumen per watt ratio if ur looking for another light 600's can't be beat. From memory there aint a big diff between 1000 & 400 L/watt but 600's significantly outperorm them.




good to know, any good source-reads?

i remember seeing a chart made by a popular light vendor that said 1000W HPS put out the most lumens per watt in that same thread. i could easily be wrong, but ide like to read more on this, as if i choose to build an indoor cacti room for my landscaping plants to enjoy during the winter, ide want the most efficient for my dollar.

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: shruman]
    #7507539 - 10/10/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yeah you would need the 400's closer than a 1000.
  if I were to need 2 light sources let it be 1000's  :rockon:

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Offlineshruman
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: cpw1971]
    #7507611 - 10/11/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

There was some good info bout it in the indoor bible but I did find more info on the net that conquered that was a while ago but & I do'nt remember where but should be easy enough for u to find.

"if I were to need 2 light sources let it be 1000's"

If I was gonna use 2000 watts or there abouts it would be 3 600's  :rockon:

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: shruman]
    #7507633 - 10/11/07 12:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

indoor bible? u mean the cannabis grow bible?

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Offlineshruman
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: CptnGarden]
    #7507688 - 10/11/07 01:22 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah Ed, its been a while since I've read it some greasy bastard stole it.

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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: shruman]
    #7507964 - 10/11/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

1000 watt lights have less effeciency than 600 watt grow lights, but have better canopy penetration. To really increase your GPW, I'd try to change more than just the light, explain to us a little bit your growing style and maybe we can help.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: TODAY]
    #7508025 - 10/11/07 08:01 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

In regards to hydroponics (something that dates back to the Aztec floating islands farming system) this article may be of interest:

Quote:

Coco produces excellent results for the soilless grower; it is comparable in result to hydroponics systems.

It is a great alternative to the soil grower willing to experiment with a ?soilless? medium, yet get comparable results to a hydro grow.

Coco can be used in a hydroponics system, or just put into pots and watered by hand as with any other soil grow. Countless grows for decades have been produced in plain soil, mixed with organics, compost, and perlite among untold other ingredients thrown in.




While soil does have its advantages, it also has more drawbacks: inconsistancy, unwanted (unknown) ingredients, increased chances of over-fertilizing and over-watering. Nearly all of the potting soil used has been sourced from nature contain larva and insect eggs.

*Pics shown which I grew in Coco are only 30 days into flowering, 60 days old from seed, with an intentional N def. They are not as yellow as shown. I have provided them to show the crystal/pistil covering bud/leaves more common to hydro in this stage of flowering, yet grown in coco-filled pots



The Definition of Coco
Many at first are misled by the use of the term Coco. It has nothing to do with the Cocoa plant at all. In reality, they are the brown fibers that make up the husk of a coconut, which have been washed and buffered. Pure Coco can be used as a substrate, or Coco can also be mixed in with soil.

It can be bought loose in bags; it is also pressed into planks (and bricks). Coconuts are found near beaches, oceans, places that have very salty air. To rid the coco of these salts, the coco is first washed, and then pressure steamed to get rid of salts, and bacteria, germs or anything else that might have been in it. Coco is buffered using water, enriched with Magnesium and lime. The quality of this treatment is dependant to the quality of the Coco. Coconuts cannot be bought from a store, pealed, and mixed into your soil.

(Edit: low quality coco may need to be washed to remove natural salts.)

Coco and PH
The buffering process also means easy adjustment of pH in the Coco, which is imperative when it comes to the optimum uptake of nutrients throughout the plant?s life.

Soil PH can be hard to change, since it takes time to correct, flow check and restore. It takes longer to correct the problem in soil, than it took to cause it.

The PH of fresh Coco is marked on the bag from 5.0 - 7.0, however all of the coco I've tested was always between 6.0 - 6.5. Changing the PH of Coco takes a few waterings of pH-adjusted water, perhaps only one. The medium is very reactive to the PH of the water given to it; this gives coco growers rapid control over pH.

What is important is that you use 6.0 - 7.0 pH water, 6.5 being optimal if in pots.

Oxygen and Coco
Soil has a tendency to become finer after time. The clumps of soil quickly disintegrate, leaving very fine pieces of matter which hold moisture, creating saturated spots, making the soil less and less aerated for roots over the plant?s life. The soil at the bottom of the pots can become a very hostile environment for the roots to grow, making roots suffocate in mud. Coco users rarely find this a problem. Coco almost never disintegrates, leaving the medium well aerated, supplying the roots constantly with enough oxygen, and all saturated spots quickly even out.

Reusing Coco
Another advantage of Coco is the fact it can be re-used. Because Coco is treated so well, you can get up to three grows from the same batch of coco. Coco is inert and does not absorb nutrients within its own fibers, so plants uptake only supplied nutrient-rich water; excess nutrients and salts are washed through with the overflow.

I paid 8 Euros for a 50 Liter bag of coco. 24 Euros in Coco, and I can fill a total of 9 seventeen Liter pots (4.5 gallon) 3 times over. Those 27 plants could go through flowering, and only averaged to .88 euro per pot in coco.

Before reusing coco, you must sift through the Coco looking for any loose root fragments, missed decaying leaves, ect. and remove them.

Advantages and drawbacks
Coco overall has many distinct advantages over soil. I have yet to grow a plant in Coco that hasn?t reached 2-2.5 feet in just 1 month from seed, without any stretching until later in life (without Topping or Fimming). The evenness of watering and the quick and direct changes of pH compares to hydro. The cost isn?t that steep because it can be reused up to 3 times, making the average cost (for myself) .24 cents US currency per US gallon. Well, after using coco, I?ll never use normal potting soil ever again

The only drawback to Coco I have found is that a massive root ball forms very quick while in veg., all my plants were detrimentally root bound in 7 Liter (1.85) gallons of coco after only 3 weeks of growth from seed. If you are ready for the growth, being in pots, and hesitant at all to go hydro with supplies and adjustments, it's just a small hurdle for all the benefits.[/url]

One of the benefits to Hydro is because you are quickly delivering water and nutrients to the plant, it doesn't have to waste so much of it's veg cycle on growing roots. As roots are not useful for our purposes, hydro is the way to go. If money is no object (rare, but possible) then I suggest you study aeroponics.


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7508185 - 10/11/07 09:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for all the thoughts. I'm going to buy a hydro book if I decide to start growing again.

If I did go hydro, is that the kind of thing that I can automate and only check up on every week or two?


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
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To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Offlineroyer
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: TODAY]
    #7508218 - 10/11/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol hydro is hard at first with all the stuff you got to buy, testers, Ph up/down , nutrients,etc. also if you run in to a deficiency then you are going to have to go through a list of symptoms to find out what you have and why to buy add to fix it, you need to read BIG TIME before you just jump in like i did, Ph lock out, certain order to mix some nutrients (mostly the 3 part), ppm of your water to start out with before adding your nutrients, possible hard water additive is needed or ro water filter system. etc,etc,etc

i could go on for an hour


once you get the info down it makes running in to a bind a lot easyer to get out of

also i never use to use hydrogard but now i swear buy it!!



good luck


p.s. the last 2 grows i went back to soil because i didn't have time for hydro and it is not a huge difference :-))


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7508685 - 10/11/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thats a good read Visionary:yesnod:


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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: TODAY]
    #7508742 - 10/11/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

IME to get the result you desire, you're going to need some time each day checking your girls.

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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: 400w HPS vs 1000w HPS [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #7509806 - 10/11/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Hydro is simpler than most people make it.

You need the following parts/supplies
Pump, timer, tubing, fill drain kit
Tray
Resevoir
Rockwool
pH test (get aquarium test kits)
veg nutes
flower nutes


Deficiencies won't be a problem if you watch your pH. Calcium excess (hard water) can be a bitch because it changes. Again, test pH and adjust with pH down and/or epsom salts (available at CVS etc as mineral laxitive). If its really hard get a kH (buffering capacity test) or just buy RO from the fish store for 50 cents a gallon.

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