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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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"God the Creator"
#7477234 - 10/02/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is an unknown and unknowable entity that is responsible for all things, all chaos, and all contradictions, all evil and all good, time, space, your momma and the neighbor who tried to rape you.
How do I know this? It told me of course and now I'm telling you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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hoopershroomer
Bonafide Oneironaut
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Re: "God the Creator" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
#7477281 - 10/02/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by fireworks_godReason for deletion: Flaming is not permitted in this forum.
-------------------- "Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego." "You teach the world how to treat you, by showing the world how you treat yourself." A well developed sense of humor is far superior to any religion" "Everything you could want and could be, you already have and are." &
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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It's you're not your.
How would I know that if God hadn't told me?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Querjek
Friend
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Icelander]
#7477292 - 10/02/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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So to you, is god all things?
-------------------- tripping eyes and flooded lungs northern downpour sends its love
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Querjek]
#7477346 - 10/02/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well that's the point of this post to some degree. Yes "God" would be all things like the Tao or Nagual.
But I was making a joke that I could ever really know this. It's just my best guess and I was making light of all those who continually post here and say God is this or that or God means this or this is what God wants or means. That to me is just self-important nonsense. IMO it's the result of severe anxiety and the need to know that someone or something (read father/mother figure) is looking out for them and will protect them from the chaotic nature of life and their conscious or unconscious fear of death and disintegration, physical and mental/emotional.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Querjek]
#7477448 - 10/02/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Querjek said: So to you, is god all things?
Our free will reaches out of the realms of g*d. At least g*d left us this little room for experiencing reality, by creating or decreating it for and by ourselves, so this is reaching into g*d's' limit(s)
But maybe even decreation (nonexistence) isn't a limit for g*d, either
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Yosefxp
HarmReductionist
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7478240 - 10/02/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Behavioural science has disproved the existence of free will. Or at least has mountains of evidence against it...as opposed to their being no evidence for it. To say something was caused by free will is merely ignorance of the causes...like saying the sun moves across the sky because it is pulled by Helios; it is merely ignorance of the real causes causing a hypothetical construct called Helios.
Everything, including human behaviour, is caused by past events and if a god created everything, it knew exactly how everything would turn out and thus the original posters first statement is correct.
-------------------- Well it's alright riding around in the breeze Well it's alright if you live the life you please Well it's alright doing the best you can Well it's alright as long as you lend a hand
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Yosefxp]
#7478256 - 10/02/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Behavioural science has disproved the existence of free will.
I am afraid you are mistaken. Behavioral science is still such a little understood field that it can hardly be taken for hard science. All it consists of are unproven theories...not laws. There are no behavioral laws. To say that is has disproven free will is making a lot of erroneous assumptions.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Icelander]
#7478767 - 10/02/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: But I was making a joke that I could ever really know this. It's just my best guess and I was making light of all those who continually post here and say God is this or that or God means this or this is what God wants or means. That to me is just self-important nonsense. IMO it's the result of severe anxiety and the need to know that someone or something (read father/mother figure) is looking out for them and will protect them from the chaotic nature of life and their conscious or unconscious fear of death and disintegration, physical and mental/emotional.
As I am on occasion one' them Quote:
who continually post here and say God is this or that or God means this or this is what God wants or means
, can I assume that Quote:
That to me is just self-important nonsense. IMO it's the result of severe anxiety and the need to know that someone or something (read father/mother figure) is looking out for them and will protect them from the chaotic nature of life and their conscious or unconscious fear of death and disintegration, physical and mental/emotional.
is directed at me to some degree?
I came onto "the scene" as it is with militant atheism and a rigid belief that death means DEATH and nothing else, and that I wasn't much more than the result of monkeys fucking. IMO this is probably without a doubt the most logical belief you can have about life, death, or God sans...something immense. This belief NEVER bothered me or caused me anxiety. I found it to be the most reasonable belief to hold at the time I found it rather appealing because I didn't have a need to feel like big daddy was going to wait for me at the end and hold my hand. Clearly that was how it is. However I have since had experiences which have given me deeper clarity in this...that couldn't have been more clear. Do I choose those beliefs, as opposed to ones that would seem on the surface to be much more rational, out of death anxiety? No! And if I gained more clarity in the issue that both discredited my current beleifs and reaffirmed those views I held previously, I would drop them. But whatever. Surely this whole splurge is too self-important for you.
Your "O" is littered with "self-important nonsense" imO and doesn't apply to everyone. Just like you claim you can't know God or whatever, how the f could you know DEATH ANXIETY drives everyone's spiritual beliefs, as you seem to be asserting?! Or is it nothing more than the same sort of "supposed" mere speculation you're ragging on here? I don't disagree that the main value people derive from religious and often times spiritual beliefs is one keeps them dwelling on fearful notions of having no God, no afterlife or punishment for the wicked, etc. But it sure as hell, or should I say pumpkins being as though we all know pumpkins are a for sure thing, doesn't apply to everyone.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Registered: 09/19/07
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Grok]
#7479226 - 10/02/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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God's nature is expounded by everything that exists. The remarkable thing is not that we could see G-d's nature, but that we often don't. I believe that if we were simple enough to learn the most humbling lessons we would be able to clearly see G-d all around us.
Or let's come from the other side. It is not that we can fully know the vastness that is G-d, but that we can openly percieve aspects of Him/Her/It. The process by which we would come to this perception would not be one of learning, but of unlearning.
Besides, we make statements about life all the time, why not about the Supreme Being? "You can't know anything about the Supreme Being or ultimate reality" - this in itself is a statement about ultimate reality.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
Edited by stellar renegade (10/02/07 11:03 PM)
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Yosefxp
HarmReductionist
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Hamilton, New Zealand
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
Behavioural science has disproved the existence of free will.
I am afraid you are mistaken. Behavioral science is still such a little understood field that it can hardly be taken for hard science. All it consists of are unproven theories...not laws. There are no behavioral laws. To say that is has disproven free will is making a lot of erroneous assumptions.
Ha, you're talking to a person studying behavioural psychology and I can assure you it is well understood by those in it . Read Science and Human Behavior by B.F. Skinner. Yes it was published over 50 years ago but as you clearly point out, most people still think it's all weak theories and wishy-washy.
It is hard science. Everything must be observable and measureable before behavioural psychology will even consider it.
And so far, every single bit of evidence collected goes against the idea of free will as being something which is not under the influence of anything observable and measureable. If we start talking about the idea of free will as an illusion of choice in our daily lives then sure, I'll agree free will exists.
But I'm also saying that it's theoretically possible to completely predict behaviour by a complete knowledge of the persons current environment, history and genetics. There is no magical 'free-will' that defies the laws of behavioural science.
-------------------- Well it's alright riding around in the breeze Well it's alright if you live the life you please Well it's alright doing the best you can Well it's alright as long as you lend a hand
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Yosefxp]
#7479496 - 10/03/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Theoretically possible to predict such behavior; behavior, of course, being the manner in which an individual makes a choice in response to the environment, every single step along the way. Either human beings make choices, or they don't, and the idea that human beings do not make choices belies our present experience of reality.
Of course we can have a science of reviewing all aspects of one's environment that would piece together all the evidence to figure out what brought a human to make the choices that they did... but it isn't as though a choice is being made, and I don't see behaviorial science predicting anyone's choices until after they happen.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Yosefxp]
#7479501 - 10/03/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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All what behavioral science, in the field of differential psychology, does so far is to find some personality parameters which can significantly predict the behaviour of a person. Since there are many varying models which most don't cover human behaviour completely (don't represent it perfectly), the absolute predictability of one's behaviour still stays an unproven hypothesis as well. The personality-'factors' have not yet been identified very well, as far as I know. (Of course every researching psychologist on this field claims to have found them!)
That what discerns humans behaviour from Skinners Black-Box, used on the field of Pavlov, is what does make behavioral psychology interesting.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Yosefxp]
#7479642 - 10/03/07 03:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ha, you're talking to a person studying behavioural psychology and I can assure you it is well understood by those in it . Read Science and Human Behavior by B.F. Skinner. Yes it was published over 50 years ago but as you clearly point out, most people still think it's all weak theories and wishy-washy.
And it’s 50 years old for a reason
The problem with behaviorism is that it only studies, analyzes the visible/obvious aspect of the human psyche. It’s very much like treating a bruise by covering it with make up. The fact is that we’re much more than what our surface acts, so behaviorist psychology will never be able to determine or predict our future actions, but on a very limited area. What drives us, what motivates us comes from a so much deeper and subtle place of our minds, so how can something as rudimentary and superficial “science” like behaviorism be able to prove the inexistence of free Will?
People resemble in many ways, and most of their mental activities are alike. But MOST doesn’t mean ALL. And each of us have unique experiences (not “magical” in the dumb sense that you’re implying), and those experiences can never be anticipated. It is exactly those mental processes that makes all this theory dismember, because even if, statistically speaking, the unexpected is mostly taken to account, the way it will actually manifest can never be estimated. Therefore, this all predicting business works on very limited aspects of our lives.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Cherk
Fashionable
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Icelander]
#7480460 - 10/03/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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you should center god where your spinal cord meets the brain and explode like a million orgasms until you're glorly is enough to start the big bang
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Cherk
Fashionable
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Cherk]
#7480470 - 10/03/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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you can actually meet the guy and become friends with him
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Cherk]
#7480478 - 10/03/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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What god?
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Cherk
Fashionable
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Icelander]
#7480480 - 10/03/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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hahah just watch this feeling come and do whatever it takes not to cry and when it comes again and you cant help cryin do it away from the women then come back again and instead of crying tell the old man next to you that its ok to cry and go on getting laid then sleep and dream of god
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Cherk
Fashionable
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there can only be one god if its really god we're talking about
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: "God the Creator" [Re: Cherk]
#7480484 - 10/03/07 11:05 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hmmm from my perspective, I see no god.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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