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InvisibleMorelman
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Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED*
    #7459057 - 09/27/07 07:24 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7459747 - 09/27/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If I may jump in here on the breeding true from spores aspect.

You lose on average 50% of heterozygosity with each strain generated from multispore (analogous to selfing in plants). What this means is, the more sequential generations you do via multispore, the less variability you will see in the later generations until the variability is nearly undetectable. There will come a point that the only variability will be from new random mutations.

OK, so what is this point, or how many generations until you can be confident you have a true breeding strain? With a wild strain you would assume 100% heterozygosity. Previously domesticated strains will obviously have less heterozygosity but since that is unknown it doesn't hurt to be conservative.

Mathematically you can see the reduction in variability with each generation. It drops off quickly and then around generation 5 or 6 the gains in stability drop off dramatically. After generation 7, with heterozygosity less than 1%, the rate of random mutations will outpace any small amount of remaining variabilty loss in later generations.

Wild 100%
F1 50%
F2 25%
F3 12.5%
F4 6.25%
F5 3.125%
F6 1.5625%
F7 0.78125%

Generate several strains from the spore print and you should expect to see huge differences between these new strains if the heterozygosity is high. Choose the strain(s) with traits you want (in this case, cap color and size) and take prints. Repeat with these new prints. You can probably feel pretty confident that after doing this 5 or 6 times that the strain is stable, especially if you don't see any new variants in the later generations.

Good luck and I hope this is understandable.


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Edited by Workman (09/28/07 11:31 PM)

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OfflineAndrew47
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Workman]
    #7459772 - 09/27/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Workman,

Thank you for the info. I wasn't aware you could tame a strain nearly that fast


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Andrew47]
    #7461145 - 09/27/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Don't forget to make a few master slants with mycelium from your clone. You'll be able to keep the strain alive for years in the refrigerator.
RR


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: Workman]
    #7462446 - 09/27/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7463201 - 09/28/07 06:15 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It appears you're working on an isolate of Transkei. Please don't re-name it. It will still be transkei.
RR


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Offlineaspore
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7463769 - 09/28/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

So technically this is not creating a substrain, but merely isolating a strain or variation of a mushrooms that holds favorable traits?

So by taking a print from the most favored clone from each generation, this is greatly reducing the possibility of having/growing fruits that do not hold the favored characteristics? This possibility decreases with the more generations you create?

But these prints are still multispore, correct?

To create a new substrain, or hybrid, you would have to have a monospore culture of your favored strain, and grow this out on a medium (rye for example), this would give you a monokaryotic mycelium correct? Then by introducing spores from another favored strain, these would (hopefully) germinate and combine with the mycelium from the first strain, and create dikaryotic mycelium, which would then transform into a unique substrain?

I'm very new at this, and have yet to go to college or anything, but I'm extremely curious about this subject.


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7463800 - 09/28/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7464684 - 09/28/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You can call it whatever you like. It is nice to know the parentage of new strains but its not required or often done. My recommendation is probably more in line with RR and I'd call it Yellow Transkei or Transkei Yellow. Or something more creative like Lemon Transkei. But it is your baby.


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Edited by Workman (09/28/07 03:34 PM)

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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
    #7533394 - 10/18/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7533702 - 10/19/07 12:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

looks a little green in the picture :grin:


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7533861 - 10/19/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

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Invisibleorchidfanatic
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7534455 - 10/19/07 08:12 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

that is wild .. very cool isolate

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Offlinewutang
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7669416 - 11/23/07 08:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

where are the fruits?


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: wutang]
    #7669603 - 11/23/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm wondering the same thing. I'd like to see how they turned out.


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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #7669680 - 11/23/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This thread should be pinned in the FAQ for advanced mycology.

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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #7669903 - 11/23/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7735890 - 12/09/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So if i take orrisa and keep only using the spores from the largest caps over and over after 5 grows I should have larger orrisa? or at least a more constant large orrisa? This makes strain isolation essayer then I thought it was.


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InvisibleEntersandman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7736029 - 12/09/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

do the mushrooms have lemon taste? :tongue2:


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
    #7738283 - 12/09/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hmm.. I'm a skeptic by nature.. I don't really see any pins or knots in that pic.  I guess it's just a little hard to think that any healthy myc wouldn't be snow white.  I've seen plenty of yellowish to orange myc that had metabolites in the water on the surface, but that straight up looks like a contam.  Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some yellow myc producing strain... I think that would be absolute bad-assness, but the fact that you can't get it to fruit is also making me skeptical.  maybe you isolated a contam that is living right along side the myc. but just stopping the myc from fruiting.  either way.. I hope I'm wrong.. I wish you the best of luck! :smile:

fahtster

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