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OfflinePhanTomCat
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You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God)..................
    #7303201 - 08/16/07 11:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God)....

In the future, lets say we create a conscious sentient computer entity that had the full compendium of human knowledge" within it's RAM (and understood it ALL simultaneously).... And lets say that entity was able to form abstract thoughts, and make educated predictive conclusions based on the scientific method while using statistical probabilities to base those answers.... If that entity was asked if there was a Creator (God), what do you think it's answer would be....?

Would it make a difference if that entity was or was not able to experience emotions when engaged in the thought process....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7303282 - 08/17/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well nobody can really do that.
But until now our "creator" didn't show any sign of existence... :shrug:
Personally I believe that the healthiest attitude is not to believe in such an entity because if the implications it brings.
I just refuse to believe there there's somebody/something that made me exist and that without it's will I wouldn't be. Also I reject the notion of worshiping.

There must be higher forms of awareness than us, but calling them god is not quite right since the term is referring to absolutes and I dislike this term too. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7303294 - 08/17/07 12:12 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The concept of a creator is anthropomorphic. Maybe there is a creator, but maybe there isn't. Maybe there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster, and maybe there isn't. They're equivalent concepts in light of the available evidence.

The only reason we invent a creator is because human psychology has a hard time with the concept of something not having a beginning. We have no psychological trouble with the concept of no Flying Spaghetti Monster, and so most of us consider the FSM a silly concept.

Your hypothetical machine wouldn't have the human psychological need for a creator or a FSM and so would consider both ideas equally silly based on the available evidence.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7303326 - 08/17/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That thing would be crying Mommy after laboring to retrieve sustainable patterns while driving and being asked silly questions like that while being doubted.
:what:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7303857 - 08/17/07 05:32 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Is not the near-infinite complexity and interactiveness of psychic and physical processes evidence enough for you?! I mean from sperm-egg unions to star nurseries, quarks to galaxies, life itself in the countless forms on Earth alone? What kind of evidence are you expecting? The Consciousness behind the designs is Unmanifest, Unlimited, and as such Beyond (transcends) form.

There is no God but God.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7303886 - 08/17/07 05:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, it is enough prove for making me believe there is an infinite life force, intention, energy, awareness.
I think the difference is that I don't really feel comfortable with calling it god because it is such an ambiguous term and it has a lot of confusing implications, mainly because it leads me to the thought of religious dogma.
So I just simply prefer to call it awareness. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineSkillet
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Registered: 08/06/07
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7304000 - 08/17/07 07:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Worshipping God is not going to Church despite what the hippocrites would have you believe. I worship God everyday when I hold the door for little old ladies, when I play catch with a little kid, when I work in my garden. God likes all these things.

I dont worship Jesus but I believe in him. Jesus worshiped God, and so do I, by trying to live like Jesus did.

God is real. Those who really know it are like little candles throwing light everywhere they go.

The beatles said it, "You can Radiate everything you are". I try to radiate Love. Jesus' only commandment was to love your fellow man.

Peace


--------------------
"It's allright letting yourself go, as long as you can get yourself back."
Mick Jagger

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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7304002 - 08/17/07 07:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I am here because of my parents and my parents are (was) here because of their parents...etc. Its all because the human mind is programed to reproduce. Just watched naked sciences special about all of this.
:doggystyle::doggystyle::doggystyle::doggystyle::doggystyle::doggystyle:


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: Skillet]
    #7304057 - 08/17/07 07:39 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Worshipping God is not going to Church despite what the hippocrites would have you believe. I worship God everyday when I hold the door for little old ladies, when I play catch with a little kid, when I work in my garden. God likes all these things.




And as you are free to worship I am free not to do so.
Simply because I can't worship something that makes part of me.
See, the thing with the term god is that we're being taught that it's something separate from us, something with authority over us. I refuse to believe in that.
Awareness, love, energy is what defines us and what we all have if we decide to access that area.

Quote:

I dont worship Jesus but I believe in him. Jesus worshiped God, and so do I, by trying to live like Jesus did.




Quote:

The beatles said it, "You can Radiate everything you are". I try to radiate Love. Jesus' only commandment was to love your fellow man.




How do you know Jesus existed?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleEllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7304070 - 08/17/07 07:59 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, it is enough prove for making me believe there is an infinite life force, intention, energy, awareness.
I think the difference is that I don't really feel comfortable with calling it god because it is such an ambiguous term and it has a lot of confusing implications, mainly because it leads me to the thought of religious dogma.




:thumbup:

I believe in a force that permeates everything. Calling it either the void or Tao is better than calling it God, in my opinion, all though it's essentially the same thing. God just has the connotation of this authoritarian fiend in the sky constantly feeding his enormous ego by making people worship him. Tao just gives you the idea of this infinite river of positive energy flowing through the universe and beyond it.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7304167 - 08/17/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Be wary of labels.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7304463 - 08/17/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

OKelly-Dokelly.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7304527 - 08/17/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Well nobody can really do that.
But until now our "creator" didn't show any sign of existence... :shrug:




What if WE are that evidence....?
Aside from what you think and believe, what do you think the man-made sentient entity would think....?

And, do you think that the conclusions of the machine/entity would change the outcome of the beliefs of people....?
It could be a neat plot to an evil machine movie, if the machine purposely lied about a creator to influence people's beliefs -
If it has not already been done....    :smirk:





Quote:

Diploid said:
Your hypothetical machine wouldn't have the human psychological need for a creator or a FSM and so would consider both ideas equally silly based on the available evidence.




Unless, the machine was statistically influenced by the idea and thought process that IT was itself created by human creators.....(?)
Just speculating, I would assume that the entity would give an answer in the form of a probability percentage, and it would be somewhere ABOVE 50%.....





Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yes, it is enough prove for making me believe there is an infinite life force, intention, energy, awareness.
I think the difference is that I don't really feel comfortable with calling it god because it is such an ambiguous term and it has a lot of confusing implications, mainly because it leads me to the thought of religious dogma.
So I just simply prefer to call it awareness. :mushroom2:




That is the main reason that I said "Creator" - and put in parenthesis (God), for the people who are comfortable with the term....    :wink:
Either way, when I say Creator or God, personally I am speaking of a Creator that designed with the intent of creating life and the universe and such....





Quote:

Skillet said:
Jesus worshiped God, and so do I, by trying to live like Jesus did. 
.
God is real.  Those who really know it are like little candles throwing light everywhere they go. 
.
I try to radiate Love.  Jesus' only commandment was to love your fellow man.




Regardless of color and/or race....    :wink:  :thumbup:





Quote:

ZShroom said:
I am here because of my parents and my parents are (was) here because of their parents...etc. Its all because the human mind is programed to reproduce. Just watched naked sciences special about all of this.




This isn't about YOUR spiritual beliefs, it is really speculation of how an all-knowing sentient machine would answer the question, and the possible outcome on us humans....    :thumbup:
Not that I mind that the thread goes off topic, it is all just entertainment either way....    :muppet:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7304553 - 08/17/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7304567 - 08/17/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Even when I know someone is of the Christ consciousness due to their influence upon my life,
I can't worship them,
I can only communicate with them.

If you worship it, to me, means you make a lifeless ritual out of something. Rather, when you are sparked up with the spirit, you give thanks, and it's not the act of giving thanks that matters, it's just the fact that the spirit makes you grateful so sometimes you might feel inspired to say thank you, just like you might be inspired to hug a waitress or play with a kitty.

this is a bit of problem with many churches, they don't have any feelings, what is good is if you can feel the grace of Jesus and then you all share in that vibration, then that is good.

there may be creators as humans are fragments of the process of creation.... there may be Creator

generally I find the idea too hard to fathom as he would have noc checks or balances.

(or she)


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlineshakercee
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7304622 - 08/17/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I would try a different tact, let there be no database on humans, our culture, religions, laws, etc.

Then as you have said, as it is conscious and sentient computer, it would, if not soon, but later start to contemplate about its existence, about a creator-us humans-is there a creator? is the world a product of natural process or a product of design?

That would be really interesting.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7304658 - 08/17/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What if WE are that evidence....?
Aside from what you think and believe, what do you think the man-made sentient entity would think....?




A man made sentient entity would probably see us and acknowledge us as it's "creators".
That in case we don't discover space travel in such a manner that would bring us to a planet capable of sustaining that particular life form.
Either way, we would not be entitled to interfere in the course of their lives, decisions, feelings, etc or feel the need to have any kind of authority over them, or feel the need to be worshiped in any way.

Quote:

And, do you think that the conclusions of the machine/entity would change the outcome of the beliefs of people....?




You mean if it were able to change the "minds" of their own kind or our minds?
In the first case yes... just look at what's happening to us thinking that we have a creator. :smirk: They would probably invent a form (or many forms) or religion.
In the second case again yes. We would most likely realize that it's possible for us to have been created by somebody, but following the exact example we would also come to the conclusion that our creators are not "god" in the terms religion teaches us. And also that we have no obligation in worshiping or serving them.

Quote:

It could be a neat plot to an evil machine movie, if the machine purposely lied about a creator to influence people's beliefs -
If it has not already been done.... :smirk:




:shrug:

:rofl:


Quote:

That is the main reason that I said "Creator" - and put in parenthesis (God), for the people who are comfortable with the term....
Either way, when I say Creator or God, personally I am speaking of a Creator that designed with the intent of creating life and the universe and such.... :wink:




Well it's pretty obvious that we are from somewhere. Be it a pure chemical reaction (but I have a strong suspicion that it's more than that), be it "aliens" :lol: or what I said earlier, this awareness, energy, intention, vital force. What I said is that I don't really agree with the term god for the reasons I explained earlier and also because of the implications it brings.
Also I don't think/feel that we were "designed" by something/somebody outside of us. More likely, we "invented" ourselves.
I feel that what dissolves this obstacle that's standing on our way in reaching our highest potential in awareness, compassion and liberation is exactly that feeling that somebody else has/could have any kind of authority over us. It will empower us with total freedom but in the same time will teach us personal responsibility. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7307001 - 08/18/07 08:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Awareness, love, energy is what defines us and what we all have if we decide to access that area."

I sure hope so.
But, I don't see it.
Some might have to work a lot harder than others for that.
I definitely feel that the energy signatures span the spectrum.
'Awareness/hate/energy' has taken root in there also.
Some feed.
Some weed.
:bongload:


--------------------

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InvisibleEllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: You just CAN'T rule out the possibility of a Creator (God).................. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7307325 - 08/18/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If you worship it, to me, means you make a lifeless ritual out of something. Rather, when you are sparked up with the spirit, you give thanks, and it's not the act of giving thanks that matters, it's just the fact that the spirit makes you grateful so sometimes you might feel inspired to say thank you, just like you might be inspired to hug a waitress or play with a kitty.





:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

It's the basking in the eternal light that's important. Kneeling down and praying is just pointless window dressing.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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