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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Psychology
    #7171437 - 07/13/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What do you think about psychology? Both as a theoretical field and as a practice?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineMark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 9 months, 12 days
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7171575 - 07/13/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think its interesting stuff, but a psychologist certainly doesn't know us better than we know ourselves and will likely not be able to help. I think most people just rely on psychologists as a crutch, as just another authority figure to turn to who will help them treat the symptoms of their problems rather than dealing directly with the causes. And indeed there is a financial benefit for the psychologist to do just this and keep them coming back (I'm not saying they do this intentionally, but it is an odd situation).

In fact I think there are psychological studies that show that traditional psychotherapy is not any more effective than other forms of therapy (most of which seem to be "placebo effect" driven)
But, I do think MDMA psychotherapy is different. I think it has much more potential but it's still a little cold and academic so I'm kind of torn on that issue as well. Its so expensive and seemingly wasteful.
I vote for people empowering themselves to learn about psychology and help themselves overcome their problems, since relying on psychologists is ultimately just another problem.


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

Edited by Mark_W (07/13/07 03:12 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7171579 - 07/13/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

An excellent tool for understanding oneself and others, so long as one remembers that we don't have all the answers. (Or even MOST of the answers.)

I've been studying various fields of psychology for over two decades, and it has aided me immensely in my growth process.  It is not the only tool I've utilized, by far, and I would never recommend it be used in that manner. 

Thomas Moore, if I recall correctly, made the distinction between "spirit" (the animating force) and "soul" (the experiencing force).  The root of psychology is "psyche" or spirit.  I see psychology as an avenue to expanding our understanding of our animating/motivating force, but as ineffective in understanding the experiencing force.

Moore's books are incredible reads, BTW.  "Care of the Soul," "The Re-enchantment of Everyday Life," "The Dark Night of the Soul," "The Soul of Sex: Cultivating Life As an Act of Love."  :thumbup:

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Psychology [Re: Mark_W]
    #7172036 - 07/13/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Is it possible, do you think, that a counselor could help a person gain a better understanding of their own minds? That they could act like a mirror and guide, or at least point, a person towards understanding?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Psychology [Re: Veritas]
    #7172047 - 07/13/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. Have you read Mark Epstein's book "Thoughts Without a Thinker"? It's a very insightful blending of some modern psychology with meditative and Buddhist understandings of the mind.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineMark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 9 months, 12 days
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7172065 - 07/13/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yes I think it is possible and it happens all the time in casual settings as well as professional settings. Something as small as recommending a good book to someone can have tremendous implications.
I just don't think there should be such a lucrative profession involved, it just makes things weird.


--------------------
Let the State Disintegrate
-Leary

Edited by Mark_W (07/14/07 04:52 AM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7172167 - 07/13/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Is it possible, do you think, that a counselor could help a person gain a better understanding of their own minds? That they could act like a mirror and guide, or at least point, a person towards understanding?




Yes.
I think that we all can do that when we become aware of our minds and about how our own mechanisms work, how do we respond to certain situations and why, when we stop lying to ourselves and when we finally decide to drop that ancestral fear which puts a stop to solving all our issues.
We're being educated to be ashamed of who we are, to feel guilt and have all these fake feelings that we become unable to discern what is authentic and what's not. We use them so much that we identify with them.
I think that the more aware we become of what really matter for ourselves, what really makes us feel that real joy, the more we get in touch with our real selves and from that place we're being able to understand others and help them.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7172198 - 07/13/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Interesting. Have you read Mark Epstein's book "Thoughts Without a Thinker"? It's a very insightful blending of some modern psychology with meditative and Buddhist understandings of the mind.




No, I have not read that, but it was referred to in an online article I read recently. I'll have to check that out.

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Psychology [Re: Veritas]
    #7172203 - 07/13/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Cool avatar!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7172207 - 07/13/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you! Yahoo! Image Search is da bomb.  :lol:

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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 16 days, 2 hours
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7172754 - 07/13/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I know very little about psychology, but I highly respect the work of people like Carl Jung and Stanislav Grof. Especially Grof - the Holotropic Mind helped me sooo much in gaining a framework for understanding some of the experiences I've had this past year.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Psychology [Re: Lion]
    #7174988 - 07/14/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

As a theoretical field I find it fascinating. As a practice I find that it produces clones of the current society's dominant views and rather stagnant. I find the pharmaceutical approach repugnant as anything but massively necessary emergency intervention for severe problem cases. I feel that one ought to clear the problems out at the root system rather than spraying pesticides on the weeds. To do this is to go into the mind and the body, to establish a holistic approach of psychic cleaning through hypnosis, psychedelics, cognitive therapy, diet, exercise, yoga, meditation. I would basically follow Buddhist psychology to treat suffering except Buddhists shun psychedelics.

I state these things because though one can look at a problem as an act of chemistry, one is neglecting the power of the body and mind to adapt. We can see yogis that are starving themselves yet feel ultimate bliss. We can see mystics that need no anesthesia for surgery. We can see that the solution to chemicals is not TAKING chemicals, rather, is in getting the entire being back in harmony with the universe, with planet, and with how it came in. This narrows down a vast majority of prescriptions in my mind as worthless, and only uses them if someone is in severe danger, and then hopefully only temporarily.

And yet, if our society operated differently the medications may not be necessary at all either. For instance I have read of communities named which escape my memory where people were basically living in a house with qualified medical professionals in a homely and loving and completely supporting environment and this was all the intervention necessary to correct their false methods of operation.

The danger with a chemical is that it takes all the individuals power away and just like Jesus and Satan says that there is a savior, it must be payed for, it can never be strayed from, and that the individual is powerless, A SINNER, or..... DEPRESSED bam you are marked on the forehead with a barcode. Why aren't these people told they can literally in most cases change their chemistry without taking pills their whole life?

It is literally residue from the Christian Jesus/Satan Heaven/Hell duality trap created to keep people enslaved, but the Church is a church of pill pushers.

I will then state that Albert Hoffman believed LSD should be an anti-depressant at the roughly 10ug dosage range as it has absolutely no side effects and I would expound probably does not have to be taken daily but rather once and a while as something to make one appreciative of living and happy, similar to how one might take a cup of tea.

The pharmaceuticals would hear nothing of this.

I am about to have a degree in psychology and I don't think I will ever use it. I am displaced severely. It's alright.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (07/14/07 01:35 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
Re: Psychology [Re: leery11]
    #7175447 - 07/14/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

the study of psychology is important -
many of its tennants are as hokey as any religion's,
but the ideas of associative memory and conditioning
complexed with neurophysiology, and statistical testing is
a great start for a better understanding of what we are.

some have made terrific headway in understanding childhood and language as well.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineShroomieGirl
What are these god damn animals
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Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,938
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Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7176650 - 07/14/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

In all the psych classes that ive taken in college, although its always been interesting to learn about the human mind (to try and get some insight into it for either personal or professional knowledge), Ive always had the same thought after each class- "If I had just sat down and put even the slightest amount of thought into each of these subjects, I could have come up with the same exact concepts and ideas- the only thing that would be different are the names for them."

Learning about your own mind is really important and can be really interesting if youre into it. It can also be useful in understanding how you react to things, or how you interact with others.
So all in all i guess what im trying to say is, atleast to me, academic psych is almost useless, but research into your own psyche can be infinitely useful in your everyday life.


--------------------
:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.

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OfflineEpigallo
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
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Re: Psychology [Re: Veritas]
    #7176727 - 07/14/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Thank you! Yahoo! Image Search is da bomb.  :lol:




what did you search for, phi?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Psychology [Re: Epigallo]
    #7177119 - 07/14/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not certain. It's been nearly a year since I uploaded it, but I believe it was "fractal."

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Invisiblespudamore
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Male

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Psychology [Re: dblaney]
    #7179633 - 07/15/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
What do you think about psychology? Both as a theoretical field and as a practice?




there is a quote that richard bandler says

the difference between a psycologist and his patient is that his patient has a better chance of getting better than the psycologist.

the thing is if one wants to heal in the present, thats where to look. there really is no need to dig through the past and bring up lots of shit, that has been dealt with in the past.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Psychology [Re: spudamore]
    #7179729 - 07/15/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

the thing is if one wants to heal in the present, thats where to look. there really is no need to dig through the past and bring up lots of shit, that has been dealt with in the past.




Please explain that statement because in the way it presents itself right now, it doesn't make any sense.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Psychology [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7179843 - 07/15/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I believe get it, and I agree.

All the past effects are active in the present moment. No need to go on a treasure hunt for lost treasure when you can find it easily in your present experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Psychology [Re: Icelander]
    #7179854 - 07/15/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yes but there are cases in which people have repressed memories but the effects of those happenings still affect them. It's only that they don't realize where they come from. So I think it's necessary to look for the "roots" of the problem in order to get a better view of the situation and to be able to treat all it's ramifications.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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