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 retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 theory on psychedelics 
#7044687 - 06/14/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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i had all this dmt goo from an extraction which i mixed in with parsley and smoked. obviously i didnt breakthrough, just acid effects. there still lingering and i started thinking some things. i think when we die everything will be revealed. all the confusion and unaswered qwuestions on this earth will be answered in our next reality. psychedelics must be the closest thing to dying whilst staying alive. they answer some of the things we will learn when we die.
is it possible the information from psychelics comes from an external source. is it all from our mind. could someone who had been raised thinking its OK to kill be showed differentally on psychedelics even though thats not in there mind? i swear some of the things from psychedelics come from an external source..
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7044812 - 06/14/07 03:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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being close to death and being close to the unknown or unknowable are simmilar - just simmilar.
in that way alone, is psychedelic experience "close to death", by virtue of its unusualness - anything else is an unfortunate extrapolation on death and life.
clearly the ongoing experience in the life of a person is a combination of internal and external, and the psychedelic or mind manifesting experience involves more layers of this happenning at once. (things fade more slowly)
Combinations of things are always more than those things individually added together, in the same way that people together in a relationship sense that there is more than just oneself and another - i.e. that the relationship itself is a certain entity.
the multilayered experiences from psychedelic are certainly more than just the self, and the raw experience of living, yet that is exactly what they are composed of.
the lingering and combinatorial relationships that unfold, moment to moment, layering upon eachother is what makes it so special.
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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ahh awesome that makes a fair more sense. wow it actually makes alot of sense  answers all my questions.
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Krystal Klear
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/07
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Loc: Mushroomvilletopiatonopol...
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7044895 - 06/14/07 05:11 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah sounds like it all makes sense.
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Nothing I say is meant to be taken seriously.
-Krystal
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ReoSpeedwagon153
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7049590 - 06/15/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think all information kind of comes from an external source.
Actually, the way I see it, consciousness is more external. I think our brains and bodies have evolved to what they are in order to recieve a deeper consciousness, rather than create it.
It's like a radio. The signal is always being broadcast, and the radio just happens to have the hardware to recieve the signal and reproduce it.
This got me thinking more about how we drum up information and ideas. I mention something like 'string theory' and it's like some form of your identity, your self, or your perception has to go find information about string theory from your memory. I think it's not just YOUR memory, but a universal collection of information you have access to.
So when you recall something, you are making your way to that section of information in the collective consciousness. How clearly you remember it is how close to it you are, or how clearly you can 'see' it.
So learning and developing habits is like learning and remembering new paths to sections of information.
That's just my theory I guess.
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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
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Loc: You get banned for saying that 
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7049766 - 06/15/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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perhaps, but YOUR MIND ABSORBS THEM INTERNALLY from external sources, that I think is the misconception. I think all outward things are processed through your mind before you experience them. It may seem ridiculous to state that, because it seems your mind would mostly be processing things that are real. Would you go outside everyday and look at a tree and feel and experience something not at all the way the tree really is?! PROBABLY NOT, BUT think of this, you know you see upside down right? your cornia is flipped upside down, and at a millionth of a second, millions of electron speed nerves quickly recalculate the data as it moves from the opening of your eye to the back of your brain I believe. So ALTHOUGH PSYCHEDELICS show us things different, and in SOME ASPECTS more true, they only give you some of what you see. Think of it like this, a tv simply takes date and processes it through an electrical current, and the current, split second by split of the split second takes it, and signals your tv to make the image and sound, BUT, if you were to PIRATE the connection, and put something else through, in a SPLIT SECOND ALMOST UNNOTICED, you'd be watching something else, and might only be able to barely tell the difference. Any of this make sense? Anyone see how our nerves and chemical intakes process the electricity of the outside world, and, our own internal thoughts and feelings and PERCEPTIVITIES of the way it's being.. well... percieved. Acid showed me a different side of reality from the outside... AND THE INSIDE. BUT, it made me think that not any one view is entirely correct, they're all different, and they all have their own purpose for whatever they serve at the time. The only view to me that might be correct, is an unbiased, always changing, unattached view, like a clear view without the window, so you can unchangingly see the different things that pass in and out. Get what I'm saying? Psychedelics show you a very gross version of the differences in reality, a very strong, blown idea of how things are different. BUT UNDERNEATH the gross matters of sober and unsober reality lie subtle changes that are usually based on the same things, no matter how entirely different they may be on the surface.
Danel
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 I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
 I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: imachavel]
#7050102 - 06/15/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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there is no distinction in the mind between signal processing of memory and signal processing of events that generate sensations (which get turned into memory)
the term real is proposed to cut between the two, but memory is real, and so is imagination- combinatorial chimeric and edited for gems or guilt.
mind is the stage on which everything is played (and replayed to suit)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Psychedelics are truly a Pandora's box. For centuries, the prevailing scientific prejudice of spirituality has been that it's purely a reaction to fear - having imaginary friends on a massive scale, basically, the response of the huddling, uneducated masses to a confusing universe. But to the receptive mind, the psychedelic experience places two possibilities before us:
1) Religion is not "correct," per se, but a series of human attempts to rationalize and understand a very real extradimensional world that we cannot see but all exist in to some extent. In this case, psychedelics certainly bring us closer in touch this world, as that is the only explanation for such overwhelmingly spiritual and seemingly bizarre experiences, not to mention speaking to "beings" that truly seem to be coming from an external source.
2) Religion and spirituality are INcorrect and we are simply beings of matter who will someday die and rot in the ground. I've leaned toward this attitude my entire life and psychedelics continue to prod it, point me in other directions, and throw it into question. But basically, if this one were true, our brains have evolved to gravitate towards metaphysical ideas, concepts of the immortal soul, God, etc. out of necessity because of our own existential angst. When we first developed the capacity for logical rehearsal, each of us realized that our inevitable fate was death, and that the world would go on without us like we were never there. Spirituality quickly developed as a counterbalance to this: whereas those without the capacity for spirituality clearly saw their inevitable and eternal death and languished in depression and angst, those who could delude themselves into a more optimistic appraisal of the universe where they would not truly die were happy - they flourished and multiplied in abundance. Over time this familial tendency evolved into one of our defining traits.
Honestly, I can't decide which one I believe is "real," or if a definitive "reality" to conclusively answer this question even exists. But either way, it's a fascinating question. Psychedelics provide a unique way to explore the possibilities by stimulating those parts of the brain that produce our spirituality, whether they evolved as nets for the mental energy to make our thoughts from the cosmic ether, or as a necessary way to keep large populations of people relatively happy and stable.
I must say, however, that my experiences have consistently been nudging me in the direction of option number one. My last mushroom trip placed me on what seemed to be the threshold to god, and the whole time I sensed that the mushrooms had an intelligence, a bizarre kind of alien consciousness entirely different from the human consciousness, and their "brain chemicals" so to speak were interacting with and in a way, speaking to my own brain. I still can find no satisfying explanation for how the physical matter and energy of my brain can produce everything I experience, my subjective thoughts. So naturally I'm led to the idea that our thoughts exist as solid (or as close to "solid" as anything can be on planes so distant from our understanding) and verifiable in one of the many dimensions that scientists are now telling us exist according to quantum physics. If this is the case then we truly are luminous beings with connections to a whole that is incomprehensibly greater than the sum of its parts, and psychedelics truly are a gateway to understanding the unexplainable corners of our universe.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (06/15/07 05:44 PM)
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Yeah. Number One, is exactly what I was thinking.
Say a kid was raised, isolated from society's veiws, and the only veiws imposed on him were those of his parents. He was raised to think it was OK to rape, murder and steal, and wasn't taught otherwise. If he took LSD or Mushrooms, is it possible he would realize it was wrong? I think maybe LSD would show him the broader picture, and put him in the other person's shoes. But i'm trying to understand if LSD can teach you things which aren't already in your brain, or coming from veiws imposed around us? If it could teach us things that aren't, it's definately coming from an external source that we can't see.
I swear some of the things it's show me haven't come from the environment or my brain. It's amazing.
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7050602 - 06/15/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
retrospect said:
i had all this dmt goo from an extraction which i mixed in with parsley and smoked. obviously i didnt breakthrough, just acid effects. there still lingering and i started thinking some things. i think when we die everything will be revealed. all the confusion and unaswered qwuestions on this earth will be answered in our next reality. psychedelics must be the closest thing to dying whilst staying alive. they answer some of the things we will learn when we die.
is it possible the information from psychelics comes from an external source. is it all from our mind. could someone who had been raised thinking its OK to kill be showed differentally on psychedelics even though thats not in there mind? i swear some of the things from psychedelics come from an external source..
Nope. When we die we cease to exist, its difficult to comprehend how one can cease to exist while alive but thats all there is to it.
We're no more, theres no other side, no heaven, no hell, no memories, nothing. We decay into the ground and create fuel potential for the humans alive millions of years from now, if they happend to exist.
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1 ,2
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chairmanK
devotee ofTezcatlipoca
Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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^ interesting, Tchan909. My psychedelic experiences have made me only more certain of the option 2 - that we are all just beings of matter who permanently relinquish our sentience when we die. When I'm tripping, I am astonished by the complexity of replicating lifeforms and natural selection, and this astonishment displaces any metaphysical fantasies that I've acquired from society.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: chairmanK]
#7051042 - 06/15/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's quite ironic, chairman. I've been sure of option 2 most of my life, well before I began using psychedelics. It was then that I began to feel that our much-vaunted modern understanding is incredibly limited, and that option 1 is no less likely than option 2.
One of the most profound effects of psychedelics (mushrooms especially) on my world-view involved changing my reaction to the impossible eternity of the universe from a sense of dwarfed fear to one of exhilaration. Before, the variety of the universe frightened and frustrated me because it was quadrillions times greater than I could possibly imagine, but psychedelics have shown me the joy of being a part of that variety, however small. No matter how bizarre or strange anything I imagine is, chances are it's out there in some form, along with things I couldn't even begin to imagine. That's a very exciting thought, regardless of your individual interpretations.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (06/15/07 08:37 PM)
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 22 hours, 20 minutes
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to redgreenvines, actually, they say in the form of buddhism carried on in the vipassana technique of meditation by s.n. goenka that, all of it's real, but mostly only temporary, the sidewalk and grass AND your imagination are all real, but not infinitely in their own nature, they are part of the everchanging infinite nature of the universe, the infinite thing being the changes. And they say your mind DOES hold the sensory perceptions of the sensations that you experience in reality everyday and it becomes your perceptions of reality, and that paying attention to the subtle things in you generally let's those things change and float away, and your memory and feelings are based on that. think about it next time you trip, you might learn something about yourself if you observe, not that you don't anyway, that stuff happens, but just keep that in mind.
Danel
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: retrospect]
#7051200 - 06/15/07 09:19 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
retrospect said:
i had all this dmt goo from an extraction which i mixed in with parsley and smoked. obviously i didnt breakthrough, just acid effects. there still lingering and i started thinking some things. i think when we die everything will be revealed. all the confusion and unaswered qwuestions on this earth will be answered in our next reality. psychedelics must be the closest thing to dying whilst staying alive. they answer some of the things we will learn when we die.
is it possible the information from psychelics comes from an external source. is it all from our mind. could someone who had been raised thinking its OK to kill be showed differentally on psychedelics even though thats not in there mind? i swear some of the things from psychedelics come from an external source..
our minds are our connections to this outside source, whatever this may be. most people have not figured out how to connect, some do it on accident with drugs, some do it intentionally with meditation and other means. imagine what we could do if we could unlock even half of our brains potential....
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chairmanK
devotee ofTezcatlipoca
Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
No matter how bizarre or strange anything I imagine is, chances are it's out there in some form, along with things I couldn't even begin to imagine. That's a very exciting thought, regardless of your individual interpretations.
Agreed! Whenever I trip, I revisit the amusing thought that a sentient being on another planet billions of light years away is also tripping and thinking the same thought about me...
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
Registered: 12/03/03
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Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: Acyl]
#7051569 - 06/15/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acyl said:
Nope. When we die we cease to exist, its difficult to comprehend how one can cease to exist while alive but thats all there is to it.
We're no more, theres no other side, no heaven, no hell, no memories, nothing. We decay into the ground and create fuel potential for the humans alive millions of years from now, if they happend to exist.
Wow! Seems like you just know it all! How about them winning lottery numbers?
Edited by cilosyb (06/15/07 11:24 PM)
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: Grok]
#7051746 - 06/16/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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He gave his opinion, I gave mine 
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 22 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: Acyl]
#7051785 - 06/16/07 01:14 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes, we cease to exist in the physical form, BUT, what of in the mental form? Where does our mind go? It may continue forever, we may never know.
Danel
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Acyl
cyanidepoisoning
Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 4,472
Loc: N.W.T.
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: imachavel]
#7051803 - 06/16/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
yes, we cease to exist in the physical form, BUT, what of in the mental form? Where does our mind go? It may continue forever, we may never know.
Danel
Ive come to realize, that although this stuff may be interesting to think about on certain psychedelics.. questioning anything of this manner (to me) is ridiculous and just seems to be a complete waste of time.
We will never know for sure what will happen, if anything does happen. And if something does happen, whats the difference? We wont know until we get to the other side, so fuck it.
Ive got better things to waste my time on.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: theory on psychedelics [Re: imachavel]
#7052849 - 06/16/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
yes, we cease to exist in the physical form, BUT, what of in the mental form? Where does our mind go? It may continue forever, we may never know.
Danel
the questions of death are more usefully subsumed in quest of life.
look instead to experiencing
what is knowing
what...
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