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on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Many thanks to our friend from deoxy, <]3six5[> & also #spiritplants for this IRC Chat log Q&A from Dr. Rick Strassman. Please CLICK HERE to view.
Alternate link: http://qwertymkonji.com/strassma
on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
[17:03] * Rick (rickstrass@yagenet-F7E93FE8.dia
[17:03] <fred> er pplz
[17:03] <ohm> good music and indian food and irc!
[17:03] <fred> heh
[17:03] <Diss> welcome Rick
[17:03] <Rick> welcome
[17:03] <fennucci> you can't just ask a question?
[17:04] <adrug> time for +m? heh
[17:04] <fred> yup
[17:04] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[17:04] * pkeffect sets mode: +o Rick
[17:04] <Rick> Are we on?
[17:04] <pkeffect> ok
[17:04] <pkeffect> let me give you a formal intro Dr. Strassman
[17:04] <Rick> OK
[17:05] <pkeffect> then we have a queue setup for people to ask questions after you are done
[17:05] <pkeffect> Spiritplants.Org would like to welcome everyone for coming to our second guest chat with Dr. Rick J. Strassman. He is the man who jump-started the current push to begin clinical research into psychedelics with human test subjects. Author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule and over 30 peer reviewed articles. His work extends far beyond the scopes of psychedelics alone. His homepage is at: http://www.rickstrassman.com/ There you will find his
[17:05] <pkeffect> We would like to thank Dr. Strassman for agreeing to come back for another installment. Thanks also goes out to Kemp who contacted him. Now without further ado, Dr. Rick Strassman!
[17:05] * nagu-AL (nagu-AL@3D7A1078.9123D238.7F0B0
[17:05] <pkeffect> You can add whatever you like Dr. Strassman
[17:05] * Johnpdx (Johnpdx@yagenet-D49A864.hsd1.or
[17:05] <pkeffect> the floor is yours
[17:05] <Rick> Greetings. Any questions or comments?
[17:06] <pkeffect> haha
[17:06] <pkeffect> i guess we should open this up then
[17:06] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[17:06] * Glandmaster (chatzilla@yagenet-D921E10.brig.
[17:06] <pkeffect> fred, you have the first question.
[17:06] <RcHaCk> hey
[17:06] * Kungpow (kungpow143@yagenet-2D40BB40.dhc
[17:06] <RcHaCk> where all these people come from
[17:06] <fred> Hi, thankyou for being here. As you can tell by the name of the chatroom we are mostly plant entheogen enthusiasts, and I'm curious as to how you feel about synthetic psychadelics vs. naturally occuring ones?
[17:06] * Glandmaster (chatzilla@yagenet-D921E10.brig.
[17:06] <nagu-AL> hi all
[17:06] <Rick> That's a tough one to start with! Sort of the Sasha Shulgin Terence McKenna discussion.
[17:06] <ackza> does rick know anything about neurofeedback
[17:07] * Maitreya (none@79B479B4.AC854951.3708E862
[17:07] <fred> sorry
[17:07] * ^BB (asd@yagenet-AAE23A59.dyn.kponet
[17:07] <Diss> Everyone, please let Dr. Strassman, and the person who is in line, ask and answer questions please
[17:07] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[17:08] * ackza (Dousedr@yagenet-9A9FB576.resnet
[17:08] <Rick> I think there are more subtle nuances with the plant materials--because a) there are so many other constituents in plants than just the primary active ingredient. Also the plants tends to have a lot longer history of use, and thus there is a field, I believe, established by the cumulative experiences of everyone who takes the plant.
[17:08] <pkeffect> We will voice you when you questions come up...sorry about this but its a huge chat tonight.
[17:08] * Dousedr (Dousedr@yagenet-9A9FB576.resnet
[17:08] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Crevy
[17:09] <Rick> That's okay. I'll just stay on track with my answer, and see what's on the screen thereafter. If you could hold the questions until I've answered the preceding one, that would make it easier.
[17:09] <pkeffect> Crevy you are up.
[17:09] <Crevy> What is the purpose of DMT in the brain? Why do we have it naturally in the first place?
[17:09] * Dousedr (Dousedr@yagenet-9A9FB576.resnet
[17:10] * himdumb (himdumb@yagenet-134147E7.hsd1.g
[17:10] <Rick> I think we need something in the brain that does what seems to happen to us at various times in our lives. Like silicon in computer chips, DMT is the best material for the purpose of seemingly providing access to free-standing non-corporeal realms. On the other hand, since we are all making DMT all of the time, it may also mediate our perception of everyday reality.
[17:11] * Kungpow (kungpow143@yagenet-2D40BB40.dhc
[17:11] * pkeffect changes topic to 'Welcome Rick Strassman: The chat is moderated, please PM an OP to be added to the question queue.'
[17:11] <pkeffect> Do you have a follow up question Crevy ?
[17:11] <Crevy> Good answer No follow up question.
[17:11] * magickow (magickow@yagenet-FE98FF18.dhcp.
[17:12] <kemp> Thank you Crevy
[17:12] * pkeffect sets mode: +v ]3six5[
[17:12] <pkeffect> ]3six5[ your up
[17:12] <]3six5[> Dr, Strassman; in your opinion, do you think dmt is the chemical that colors your dreams? or could there be some other neural mechanism that does this?
[17:14] * Andesvirgo (Andesvirgo@B1397DBC.AE52C514.6F
[17:14] <Rick> Jace Callaway wrote an article in Medical Hypotheses several years ago suggesting that the pineal gland makes a beta-carboline MAO inhibitor, called pinoline. This pinoline then allows endogenous DMT to more powerfully exert its effects. He suggested this was a "mechanism of dreams." There clearly are other psychedelic compounds made in the brain besides DMT, and these might color dreams, too. Such as 5-methoxy-DMT, end
[17:14] <]3six5[> ah, ok
[17:14] <]3six5[> next q..
[17:15] <]3six5[> do you think is possible that the plants that produce dmt have some sort of dream consciousness / dream body or some presence in the realms of dream consciousness?
[17:15] <pkeffect> sorry about the cutting off there Rick, the may need to break your answers up into a few lines, I think there is a 300 character limit.
[17:16] <Rick> I think plants are conscious, and this may relate to the fact that so many plants contain DMT. Maybe those plants that contain DMT and our bodies that contain DMT, might experience a unique resonance.
[17:17] <Rick> I do think DMT and related compounds show higher levels during dreams; also other non-corporeal states.
[17:17] <]3six5[> wow, next question;
[17:17] <]3six5[> do you know of any exercises that can strengthen the pineal gland or activate the pineal gland?
[17:17] * pkeffect sets mode: +v TiK
[17:18] <TiK> I was wondering if you could please comment on the similarity in phenomonology between DMT and high concentrations of Salvinorin A, despite such radically different pharmacology. Particularly the aspect of sentient beings who are expecting the tripper, which you have emphasized, seems to be a very common trend.
[17:18] <TiK> How does Salvinorin then fit in to your theories of the endogenous nature of the psychedlelic experience, or of other realms visited by multiple different trippers? I guess basically how you would say the two are the same and different with reference to your research? Thank you kindly.
[17:18] <Rick> The only thing I've heard of is the practice of long-term exposure to darkness. There are cave-retreats being offered which theoretically stimulate pineal growth, similar to what occurs in other mammals. If the pineal makes DMT and related compounds; then a bigger pineal might make more.
[17:18] <]3six5[> thank you doctor
[17:18] <TiK> Oops
[17:18] <TiK> sorry jumped the gun
[17:19] <]3six5[> i was out of line tik, s'all right
[17:19] <kemp> No problem
[17:19] * ackza (Zachary@yagenet-41D615B0.resnet
[17:19] <Rick> I'm a little baffled by salvinorin. It isn't an amine, like all other psychedelics. And certainly, the tryptamine and salvinorin realms appear rather similar.
[17:20] * pkeffect sets mode: -vv ]3six5[ Crevy
[17:20] * JustinBaird15 (justinbair@yagenet-2D61F4A7.stx
[17:20] <TiK> WOuld you think that it is possuble the same places are being visited on DMT and Salvia?
[17:21] <Rick> I don't think so--there are enough differences between the 2 states to make me think they're different. But, they do seem to have more similarities than differences. What is your sense of how they compare?
[17:21] * sHR00m (pilz@yagenet-CCB93D4A.dip.t-dia
[17:21] * sHR00m (pilz@yagenet-CCB93D4A.dip.t-dia
[17:21] * ikarma (ikarma@yagenet-2A426F93.austin.
[17:22] <TiK> Mainly the apect of other sentient beings, the sense of foreboding approaching a trip
[17:22] <TiK> And mainly in that ther just are not as many other drugs that give you a full dissociative expereince
[17:22] <Rick> The foreboding may relate to the speed and loss of control. The sentient beings are similar.
[17:22] <TiK> It is strange they are sosimilar in effect when how they work is so astoundingly diferent
[17:22] <Rick> PCP and ketamine are dissociative.
[17:23] * pkeffect sets mode: +v ObOdAoUr
[17:23] <TiK> Ah yes, I guess you are right that a lot could have to do with the speed they come on with
[17:23] <TiK> And the intensity.
[17:23] <pkeffect> Obo you are up my friend.
[17:23] * kemp sets mode: -v TiK
[17:23] <ObOdAoUr> Hello Dr. Strassman, nice to meet you, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the possible use of dmt in treatment of ocd/anxiety disorders? On another note... My second question is what role do you think DMT and other such substances played in the ancient mystery relions/cults such as the eleusinian mysteries etc. ?
[17:24] * kraid (dfhsiufh@yagenet-49AA89F6.glass
[17:25] <Rick> DMT, at least smoked, is so short acting, that one can't do much work with it in therapy. With ayahuasca, though, you see more of a mushroom type trip, and psilocybin has been found useful in obsessive-compulsive disorder. I just co-wrote a paper describing the low levels of anxiety in ayahuasca users.
[17:26] <Rick> Your 2nd question--a lot has been written on the Eleusian mysteries and ergot alkaloids found in the drink served in those rites. Ruck and Hofmann and some one else wrote a book about this.
[17:26] * helixxo (helixxo@yagenet-6BA5DD4B.miatfl
[17:26] <Rick> Re: OCD--the fact that one session of psilocybin helps so much makes me think its as much a psychological effect as a pharmacological one.
[17:27] <ObOdAoUr> thank you
[17:27] * pkeffect sets mode: +v pinky
[17:27] <pkeffect> pinky, you are up.
[17:27] * brainwreck (frunkit@yagenet-FB6DF630.hsd1.m
[17:27] * pkeffect sets mode: -v ObOdAoUr
[17:28] <pinky> Thanks pk
[17:28] <pinky> Hello Dr. Strassman! In your book you mention that Danny Freedman, a man described by you as "the most powerful individual in American psychiatry at the time", refused any help with your study if it were officially examining anything other than the various pharmacological effects of DMT on the body.
[17:28] <pinky> Yet later in your book you make clear that you go into great detail in observing and recording the psychological and emotional responses of the subjects in the study.
[17:28] <pinky> So my question is: did you in fact make it appear as if your study was officially only examining strictly the pharmacological activity of DMT in the lengthy process of weaving through the labyrinth to get your process approved by the DEA, FDA, and the sources of your funding?
[17:30] <kemp> pinky lays on the pressure
[17:30] * khronusarian (khronus@2C1A42DC.15BE185.89A9A4
[17:30] <Rick> Well, I needed to write protocols that provided a way for me to give the drug. The most objective variables are biological and pharmacological ones. At the same time, we developed new and relatively sophisticated rating scale to asess psychological effects. Of course I was interested in what I thought would be very interesting reports of effects. And, I describe earlier in the book my deeper motivations.
[17:31] * flamoot_ (root@yagenet-EC097FC6.dsl.bell.
[17:31] * flamoot (root@yagenet-EC097FC6.dsl.bell.
[17:31] * khronusarian (khronus@2C1A42DC.15BE185.89A9A4
[17:32] * harkeyahh (chatzilla@yagenet-42CF1976.slkc
[17:32] <pkeffect> to make this a bit easier rick, when you are done answering, give an "end"
[17:32] * Mystia (bob@yagenet-7656B1E9.hsd1.al.co
[17:32] <Rick> okay
[17:32] <pkeffect> thank you
[17:32] <Rick> end
[17:32] <pkeffect> hehe
[17:32] <atreyu> enkiavatar is next
[17:32] * atreyu sets mode: +v enkiavatar
[17:32] <kemp> and, if you'ld like to take a break soon for 5 or 10 minutes we can do that
[17:32] <enkiavatar> Hello Doctor. I have two questions of which the first has two parts: 1. what is your take on the significance of animal use of psychedelic plants as documented, for example, by Giorgio Samorini & Robert Montgomery in "Animals and Psycheledics"? 2. what do you think, if any, is the role of psychedelic plant use in human evolution?
[17:33] * Crevy (sdfsdf@yagenet-94CDCDD8.student
[17:34] * Grav2 (anon@yagenet-A574D10B.hsd1.ga.c
[17:34] * Grav (anon@yagenet-4E83DBFA.hsd1.ga.c
[17:35] <Rick> Animals share several aspects of the soul with us. That is, the mineral, vegetable, and animal layers of the soul. Some humans find psychedelic plant effects desirable for the perceptual, emotional ,etc., effects. To the extent animals experience sentience, though the aegis of the soul, similarly, they will find psychedelic effects desirable. END
[17:35] <Rick> Oh, the 2nd question.
[17:35] <enkiavatar> And last question: Do You Think think that the DMT experience can be simulated w/o chemicals via an apparatus similar to the "god helmet" used in the work of dr. Persinger?
[17:36] * Grav2 is now known as Grav
[17:36] * oghran (oghran@yagenet-359FDB71.psd.vod
[17:36] * kemp sets mode: +o oghran
[17:36] <Rick> I think we're co-evolving with plants. Perhaps the surge in interest in DMT and ayahuasca involves plants attempting to strengthen their conscious connections with us in order to slow the rate of environment damage.
[17:36] <Rick> end.
[17:36] <enkiavatar> And last question: Do You Think think that the DMT experience can be simulated w/o chemicals via an apparatus similar to the "god helmet" used in the work of dr. Persinger?
[17:36] * zarq (zarq@yagenet-5DD91FFB.justthis.
[17:36] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Puppy
[17:37] * pkeffect sets mode: -vv enkiavatar pinky
[17:37] <pkeffect> Puppy you're up.
[17:37] <Rick> I am not too familiar with Persinger's work, and don't know how close his subjects' experience match ones of our volunteers. However, it's certainly conceivable that EMF fields could stimulate substantial DMT release once all the relevant parameters were understood. END
[17:37] <Puppy> begin
[17:38] <kemp> need help Puppy?
[17:38] <Puppy> yes
[17:38] <kemp> Dr. Strassman....in your experience...ayahuasca vs. pharmahuasca vs. homemade brew vs. pure DMT in clinical setting...just your observations as to differeces or similarities. I have had neither. We are all looking for the SPIRIT!!!
[17:38] <kemp> there ya go
[17:39] * Grav (anon@yagenet-A574D10B.hsd1.ga.c
[17:39] <kemp> puppy can you clarify your question?
[17:40] * Floop (nonnw@yagenet-32ABA58.dynamic.c
[17:40] * oghran (oghran@yagenet-359FDB71.psd.vod
[17:40] <kemp> how about we come back to that one
[17:40] <Rick> I don't know much about pharmahuasca effects. But, DMT and ayahuasca certainly are of the same ilk. Ayahuasca is much more amenable to deep psychological and physical work than smoked DMT. Smoked DMT certainly is a unique experience, even more so is IV. I think homebrewed vs jungle brew relates to the ambience--the field of the preparation. Also, the tricks of the trade learned by folks who have been brewing it a certa
[17:42] <Rick> OK
[17:42] <Puppy> If this is okay to ask, Rick, have you had DMT experience or say a trip at Wasiwaska with Dr. Luna? end
[17:42] * pkeffect sets mode: -v Puppy
[17:42] <atreyu> Rick, after this next question we would invite you to take a short break from typing if you'd like, and open the room up for 5-10 minutes of general discussion and reaction to the comments thus far.
[17:42] * Grav (anon@yagenet-4E83DBFA.hsd1.ga.c
[17:43] * Minkz (Minkz@yagenet-6D66A4A7.cinci.re
[17:43] * pkeffect sets mode: +v deloun
[17:44] <Rick> I've taken ayahausca in Brazil. And otherwise, I don't refer to activities that are illegal! end
[17:44] <pkeffect> deloun you are up.
[17:44] <deloun> Hello Dr. Strassman. Do you think that DMT gives acces to another reality that actually exists? Do you think DMT is here for a spiritual reason, if so, why?
[17:44] * ohm (love@yagenet-695BBA39.ptldme.ea
[17:44] <Rick> I'm okay with watching the conversation, and returning to answers in 5 minutes. Let me answer deloun's question and then I'll sit back for awhile. You tell me when to re-enter.
[17:45] <kemp> sounds great Rick
[17:46] <Rick> I think DMT provides access to another reality. But, that's so hard to prove. I met Benny Shanon this weekend, an Israeli psychologist who's take ayahuasca hundreds of times. He believes the experiences are the results of man's creative faculties, not proof for the existence of alternative realities. Marko Rodriguez just published a paper on testing for the reality of entities, in The Journal Of Scientific Exploration.
[17:46] * ohm (love@yagenet-6FF0BE6C.ptldme.ea
[17:46] <Rick> I think *something* has to occur biologically when we our conscious is so highly altered as in a "spiritual" state. DMT just happens to be how it was all put together. end.
[17:46] * AlbertHofmann is now known as dephtu
[17:47] <kemp> ok, lets take that break now
[17:47] <kemp> thank you Dr. Strassman
[17:47] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[17:47] * Obsidian stretches legs... it's very cramped in the "mute box"
[17:47] * kitty is worn out
[17:47] <adrug> very nice.
[17:47] <dephtu> hello
[17:47] <deloun> Yes, I think that psychedelics give acces to another reality too, Thanks
[17:47] <]3six5[> ty again Dr. Strassman
[17:47] * fennucci (fennucci@yagenet-CCE052C.gdrpwi
[17:47] <dephtu> oh its dr.
[17:47] <Basidia> ObOdAoUr, the book Dr. Srassman was refering to earlier by Wasson, Hofmann and Ruck is entitled "The Road To Eleusis"
[17:47] <psych> deloun, just like another 'frequency'
[17:47] <Obsidian> yea thanks for taking time to come and socialize with the masses
[17:47] <dephtu> i almost missed him
[17:48] <pkeffect> we will mod the channel again in say 5 - 10 minutes and get back to the queue for questions.
[17:48] * fennucci (fennucci@yagenet-CCE052C.gdrpwi
[17:48] <dephtu> or, did i miss him
[17:48] <fred> yes thankyou rick
[17:48] <deloun> indeed psych
[17:48] <pkeffect> no dephtu
[17:48] <adrug> no, we're taking a break.
[17:48] <Diss> there are other channels if you guys want to get together and chat during the Moderated portions of this event...
[17:48] <dephtu> oh
[17:48] <cass> no deph, its break time
[17:48] <atreyu> Please keep an air of decorum and respect if at all possible.
[17:48] <fred> what are they diss
[17:48] <khronusarian> lol
[17:48] * Obsidian is on the other channels
[17:48] <davidvennik> holy cow look at all the people in here
[17:48] <cenacle_> the other realities access assume this reality is somehow limited
[17:48] <khronusarian> hi david
[17:48] <fred> yeah man
[17:48] <fred> 99
[17:48] <MolokoBot> this is interesting with some new pointers to sources of information, research and dialog.
[17:48] <dephtu> davidvennik, i think rick is famous
[17:48] <]3six5[> enkiavatar : terrance mckenna goes over psychedelics in evolution in a speech titled - psychedelics and intelligent machines - he discusses how psilocin could've aided primates in evolution
[17:48] <cass> type /list for the chans
[17:48] <soulshine> holy cows indeed
[17:48] <cenacle_> that we know the extent of this reality
[17:48] <November> maybe its the same reality
[17:48] <kemp> "By the way, we have a drawing at the end of the chat for three signed editions of Dr. Strassman's book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" - if you want to enter, just send a message to "senz" stating you would like to enter the drawing.
[17:48] <soulshine> 5 times the usual people
[17:49] <November> "in different colours"
[17:49] <pkeffect> if everyone wants to chat while quesitons are going on...you can come into #ayahuasca
[17:49] <Basidia> nice
[17:49] <Diss> Please join #ayahuasca if you want to congregate and talk freely
[17:49] <khronusarian> ,hgood stuff going on here, many thanks dr for coming along today..you have an international audience
[17:49] <cenacle_> whoot bush
[17:49] <atreyu> does anyone know of salvia in any clinical/research studies - given that this is a legal substance, I would think it would be ripe for the picking, so to speak.
[17:49] <nagu-AL> i 'd like to think people here have the book already and have read it!
[17:49] <Obsidian> we're also keeping up in #otzchim on the deoxy server
[17:49] <cenacle_> yah ayahuasca is for troublemakers like dimethyl
[17:49] <adrug> atreyu, I worry it won't stay legal for much longer
[17:49] <MolokoBot> the notion of reality is fairly slippery. It's often not clear whether reality is more of a model or an experience, or whether it's presumed to be somehow physically real in material-consensus space and doesn't go away when you're not involved in it.
[17:49] <justinl> so i dont really have anything much to say, but this is some next level stuff
[17:49] <cenacle_> yah moloko
[17:50] <cenacle_> that's why i question multiple realities
[17:50] <ObOdAoUr> thats the tree of life
[17:50] <cenacle_> it's presumptive
[17:50] <khronusarian> yea, the whole notion of the language we use needs tough sscrutiny
[17:50] <Basidia> I'd like to thank Dr. Strassman for his time and to everyone else who has made this possible.
[17:50] <atreyu> adrug - well, research into any therapeutic/medical effects salvia might offer could help keep it legal.
[17:50] <vigilant_mind> I haven't read Dr. Strassman's books, but my interest in psychedelics in transcendental psychology is what led me here
[17:50] <fennucci> if ayahuasca becomes scheduled
[17:50] * TiK (TiK@yagenet-36EAEA46.sktn.hsdb.
[17:50] * thomasKMFDM (tkmfdm@yagenet-1C846365.direct-
[17:50] <fennucci> that would be so lame
[17:50] <nagu-AL> "Reality is silly-putty"
[17:50] <enkiavatar> > ]3six5[ : thanks
[17:50] <khronusarian> if one experiences it i would normally say it is real
[17:50] <khronusarian> in some sense at least
[17:50] * TiK (TiK@yagenet-36EAEA46.sktn.hsdb.
[17:50] <Obsidian> atreyu, think of how many people are educated well enough to produce the product
[17:50] <adrug> atreyu, they'd better hurry then. I see more and more articles in newspapers and on websites about the "new drug", salvia.
[17:50] <adrug> and how all the kids are smoking it.
[17:50] <enkiavatar> salvia sucks
[17:50] <Obsidian> especially people considering it for public consumption
[17:50] <adrug> Its only a matter of time, unfortunately.
[17:50] <vigilant_mind> adrgu is right
[17:50] <Obsidian> Salvia is illegal now
[17:50] <senz> holy shit thats alot of messages
[17:50] <soulshine> anyone know what strassman has planned in the future for dmt?
[17:50] <fred> no
[17:50] <]3six5[> salvia isn't a recreational drug ppl....
[17:51] <dimethyl> where at Obsidian ?
[17:51] <vigilant_mind> salvia will inevitably be illegalized in the US
[17:51] <nagu-AL> salvia already banned in some places
[17:51] <Basidia> Salvia is illiegal in about 4 states
[17:51] <enkiavatar> it still sucks
[17:51] <MolokoBot> I think also interesting is an idea that psychedelics increase the recursive depth of neural networks - much like seeing trails at the deep cognitive level - and that this increased activation time allows more complex inference trees to bloom in the brain. One could run a larger personality/mind or multiple personalities minds.
[17:51] <Obsidian> northern VA
[17:51] <fred> not so vigilant_mind
[17:51] <dimethyl> i heard salvia is prescription in Finland, and that people can get it prescribed for depression
[17:51] <fred> stop chanting it
[17:51] <fred> it will only make it more real
[17:51] <]3six5[> for real!
[17:51] <Johnpdx> the "youtube" salvia videos are very bad salvia pr
[17:51] <MolokoBot> that one sees and talks with seemingly autonomous, willful entities in dreams suggests that that sort of thing is fairly normal.
[17:51] <vigilant_mind> It's very likely, fred.
[17:51] <yrm0m> im curious about the rating scale he mentioned, for measuring the psychological effects. is this the ++++ scale?
[17:51] * Obsidian avoids drug videos on the internet
[17:51] <Obsidian> though
[17:51] * Obsidian once saw a very hot english girl saying nasty things on LSD
[17:51] * Obsidian was fine with that video
[17:51] <MolokoBot> alternatively, some think that dream experiences are coming out of memory and the temporal lobes, and being interpreted as new experiences, remixed.
[17:51] <atreyu> adrug - I happen to think you are right, but I would still like to keep my optimism. there is not nearly the potential for abuse with salvia that there is with other psychedelics, because it is not really a euphoriant in the classic sense. abuse potential is critical for a federal outlaw..
[17:52] <Basidia> Salvia needs to stop being marketed as legal marijuana and lsd.
[17:52] <dimethyl> it does have potential theraputic use as its a D2 antagonist
[17:52] <adrug> That's very true.
[17:52] <adrug> Salvia is hardly euphoric, like other drugs
[17:52] <dimethyl> dopamine D2 i mean
[17:52] <Obsidian> yrm0m
[17:52] <Obsidian> ask him in th next break
[17:52] <adrug> I myself found it very interesting, but I still hestiate to visit that realm
[17:52] <Clickeyu> the potential for abuse is hardly a strong criteria in most countries drug legislations
[17:52] <slmatic> salvia will run most people away, as its not really funny to play with
[17:52] <davidvennik> they banned it in australia
[17:52] <soulshine> they're trying to make salvia illegal in some places
[17:52] <yrm0m> im not going to stick around
[17:52] <fred> yeah marketing salvia to kids may become illegal
[17:52] <Obsidian> er the next session
[17:52] <Pescador> I said this already earlier, but maybe some body missed. In Upsala (Sweden) they tried to repeat the things Persinger et al. have done. They had little success, practically nothing. All the published material by Persinger can be questioned to a pretty long way. For ex. John Horgan has a nice paragraph on Persinmger in his book Rational Mysticism. If I remember right Rick is also mentioned a few times in the book. I can send the ar
[17:52] <vigilant_mind> the media distorts the truth about subjects such as drugs, stigmatizing them and deceiving the public into believing that their version of the "truth" is the "truth"
[17:52] <fred> or even selling it in headshops in extracted form
[17:52] <MolokoBot> also, most of my mental activity is nonverbal, it's almost like I have a dream track going all the time that relates to what I'm thinking. sort of visualization of thoughts and ideas.
[17:52] <Pescador> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entr
[17:52] <fred> but the plant won't be illegal
[17:52] <Obsidian> yrm0m, post it to PK and they'll ask for you, and you can see it on the transcript
[17:53] <nagu-AL> The marketing mentality is the problem
[17:53] <fennucci> it's so hard to read anything in this room
[17:53] <adrug> fred, I hope not.
[17:53] <dimethyl> kappa opioids are d2 antagonists in rebound or something, so salvia's a potential useful adjunct for mental disorders
[17:53] <fred> it's too easy to propagate
[17:53] <MolokoBot> ayahuasca is tolerated by the federal courts as a protected religious practice, so far.
[17:53] <fred> at least in the tropics
[17:53] <enkiavatar> > pescador :thanks
[17:53] <fred> it's a flippin mint
[17:53] <soulshine> how long can we expect this interview to last?
[17:53] <atreyu> let us declare all of nature to be legitimate....
[17:53] <fred> you just break it off and stick it in the ground
[17:53] <fred> I grow it
[17:53] <JustinBaird15> so is marijuana....THC Ministry....
[17:53] <Obsidian> speaking of dreaming, does anyone else have a habit of molecularizing through floors or brakes not working in cars in your dreams?
[17:53] <yrm0m> i think dolphins should be illegal
[17:53] <atreyu> I suppose until the good Dr. gets tired of entertaining us with his expertise.
[17:53] <fred> no marijuana is much harder to grow
[17:53] <MolokoBot> if you marketed canned ayahuasca at health food stores you might run into serious problems due to the analog drug act regarding mixtures or compounds containing a controlled substance.
[17:53] <fred> I'm told
[17:53] <vigilant_mind> to make something legal as to its use, just start a church and say that the desired drug to be used is a "sacrament"
[17:53] <enkiavatar> no just zombies,,, constant zombies
[17:53] <vigilant_mind> it's called getting your foot in the door
[17:53] <brainwreck> Obsidian yes to brakes not working, car outta controll etc
[17:53] <MolokoBot> I doubt you can be arrested for manufacturing DMT in your pineal gland.
[17:54] <kitty> dolphins are illegal in 12 different oceans
[17:54] <vigilant_mind> hehe
[17:54] <atreyu> we have about 30 questions remaining in the queue.
[17:54] <kitty> but legal in 4
[17:54] <adrug> Here's an interesting PDF about Salvia: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/
[17:54] <JustinBaird15> no i ment its tolerated by the gov.
[17:54] <Obsidian> yea, and I always have police chasing me
[17:54] <November> are everyone having a discussion with them self right now?
[17:54] <yrm0m> we should ban those 4 oceans
[17:54] <Obsidian> which I think is because I'm paranoid on the road
[17:54] <kitty> but i am a dolphin
[17:54] <Johnpdx> depends on the dolphins' clandestine activities...
[17:54] <pkeffect> its break time...
[17:54] <enkiavatar> lucid drteaming anyone know much about it her
[17:54] <]3six5[> November: Dr.'s taking a break
on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
[17:54] * zarq nods at November
[17:54] <pkeffect> few minutes we will start back up
[17:54] <]3six5[> its an open chat right now
[17:54] <yrm0m> you can live in my basement. im not a narc
[17:54] <pkeffect> November, you will be next
[17:54] <pkeffect> have the ? ready
[17:54] <Dirky> for lucid dreaming: www.ld4all.com
[17:54] <soulshine> there's a peruvian website which sells premade ayahuasca, but has very little viridis in it
[17:54] <]3six5[> i,,, probley need to take 5 myself
[17:54] <Obsidian> man
[17:54] * p_q (p_q@yagenet-826D2221.kas.fi) has joined #spiritplants
[17:54] * ]3six5[ runs out
[17:54] <Obsidian> I'm floating right now
[17:54] <kitty> i bet if i dolphin took dmt itd take over the universe
[17:54] <nagu-AL> pk , do u need to see my question?
[17:54] <November> pkeffect: ya its ready but my englishs not very good
[17:54] <vigilant_mind> if you're interested in lucid dreaming, watch the movie Vanilla Sky
[17:54] <vigilant_mind> haha
[17:54] <November> pkeffect: i hope it will do
[17:55] <yrm0m> kitty: no doubt. thats why they must be stopped
[17:55] <MolokoBot> Lilly gave LSD to dolphins.
[17:55] <Obsidian> in that good warm vibraty THC high right now
[17:55] <fred> lets go inject a dolphin with dmn and see if it can fly us to the moon
[17:55] <fred> erm dmt
[17:55] <Obsidian> and slightly buzzed on some good vodka
[17:55] <adrug> heh
[17:55] <kitty> lol
[17:55] <enkiavatar> > kitty : wow you just blew my mind
[17:55] <Dirky> well, the movie Vanilla Sky is not really about lucid dreaming
[17:55] <Dirky> but it's nice
[17:55] <kitty> yeah i get that a lot
[17:55] <Obsidian> yes it is
[17:55] <MolokoBot> the ethics of inflicting DMT on a dolphin are problematic.
[17:55] <vigilant_mind> i know
[17:55] * phalaris (a_@yagenet-6850DD87.hsd1.ca.com
[17:55] <enkiavatar> vanilla sky - scientology propaganda
[17:55] <vigilant_mind> i was joking
[17:55] <kitty> rofl
[17:55] <Obsidian> the whole movie is a lucid dream
[17:55] <Obsidian> well
[17:55] <dimethyl> yea, dolphins and whale's brains are anatomically more advances in some ways than humans too
[17:55] <Obsidian> a manufactured lucid dream
[17:55] <ohm> i need to find a cave to exercise my pineal. thats what im thinking
[17:55] <atreyu> i am surprised that there is not more success with the 'religious use argument' for legaliziation/decriminalization,
[17:55] <fred> a dolphin would love it
[17:55] <fred> and that assumes you can't talk to dolphins
[17:55] <Obsidian> so is Total Recall
[17:55] <MolokoBot> you might be able to make dolphin ayahuasca and let them determine their own dose preference.
[17:55] <kitty> id ride a dolphin to the moon if it asked me nicely
[17:55] <linnunao> Waking Life is better movie about Lucid Dreaming
[17:55] <Obsidian> Total Recall is very rarely realized to be about a lucid dream
[17:55] <Clickeyu> waking life is great
[17:56] <khronusarian> atreyu...most people dont properly go and start a religion shoulda listened to leary lol )
[17:56] <cenacle_> waking life rocks!!!
[17:56] <yrm0m> dolphins are the stylish way to travel to the moon
[17:56] <Obsidian> Waking Life is very good
[17:56] <Sashimi> Indeed, I love waking life
[17:56] <vigilant_mind> yeah, you can get away with a lot in the name of religion
[17:56] <atreyu> hell, what about L. Ron Hubbard and the scientologists!?!
[17:56] <khronusarian> aint that the truth lol
[17:56] <vigilant_mind> it's taboo to criticize religion in the US
[17:56] <MolokoBot> I think you could find a safe harbor for solo or group psychedelic use if you are "spiritually motivated". That may be sufficient.
[17:56] <Obsidian> fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones
[17:56] <cenacle_> hubbard started that as a joke, on a bet
[17:56] <vigilant_mind> at least at the personal level
[17:56] <enkiavatar> i say join blanetology
[17:56] <ohm> at a bar
[17:56] <fred> we shuold start it here
[17:56] <fred> 102 members
[17:56] <MolokoBot> also, mushrooms have a tradition of self-initiation. Maria Sabina just ate mushrooms out of a field when she was 9 years old.
[17:56] <MolokoBot> that's her credential.
[17:56] <enkiavatar> it combines the glamor of weird cult with the awesome magic of david blane
[17:56] <vigilant_mind> I'm a Blanetologist.
[17:56] <fred> the church of that one day, when we started to be a church
[17:57] <fred> er
[17:57] <ObOdAoUr> lol
[17:57] <pkeffect> Ok, we are going to moderate the channel again and start the questions back up. If you want to chat while this is going on please visit #ayahuasca.. /join #ayahuasca ... you can still pm an OP to be added to the queue
[17:57] <Maitreya> its a sickening thought that the country with the most firepower and infliuence is considering creationisme as an actual course
[17:57] <MolokoBot> I think blane was drinking his own urine in that box for 30 days.
[17:57] <fred> The Church of 102 total
[17:57] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[17:57] <pkeffect> Rick we are ready whenever you are sir.
[17:57] <Rick> I'm ready. This is a funny and smart group. I enjoyed listening in. end.
[17:58] <pkeffect> ok you arer up November, and if you need another break Rick let us know.
[17:58] <kemp> great! who's up next?
[17:58] * pkeffect sets mode: +v November
[17:58] <November> am i on?
[17:58] <November> ok
[17:58] <November> hi there everbody
[17:58] <November> here it comes
[17:58] <November> Hi Dr. Strassman. A quick question. I'm a bit concerned about the health-issue of "smoking" DMT. How bad is inhaled DMT for your health (throat and lungs i.p.)? Can you point me towards any resarch? I havnt't been able to read your book, so I'm sorry if you have to repeat yourself.
[18:00] <Rick> DMT smoking is pretty disgusting. However, I know someone who smoked a 1/4 oz of DMT in 6 months when a young man, and he's now 70, skis in the Sierras, very active professionally. I don't know of any published research about smoked DMT. end.
[18:00] * |rouemirc| (theroue@yagenet-806E2F0.ccc.de)
[18:00] <November> no further questions mister
[18:00] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Pescador
[18:00] <pkeffect> Pescador you're next
[18:01] * pkeffect sets mode: -vv deloun November
[18:01] <Pescador> thanks
[18:01] <Pescador> Hello, MR. Strassman. I would like to start with a couple questions about the “psychedelic research network”. First I would like to ask if the person “Bob” of whom you write about in your book on the page ~290 is John Halpern. You say in the book that he liked to take drugs with the volunteers etc. Now after the big Halperngate that happened last year (and still going on) I was just curious about this. His age would match etc (po
[18:01] * joha_ (joha@yagenet-CF4D1757.org) has joined #spiritplants
[18:02] <atreyu> please keep in mind that we do not want to violate anyones privacy
[18:02] <atreyu> or incriminate them
[18:02] <atreyu> so please plan your questions accordingly.
[18:02] <Rick> Well, most definitely, "Bob" was *not* John Halpern. end.
[18:02] <Pescador> I have still 2 questionok sorry
[18:02] <Pescador> Have you had any “serious” contacts or has the book raised any eyebrows in the scientific world?
[18:03] <Rick> The scientific community has been pretty low-key in their reaction to my book. What do you mean by "serious contacts"? end
[18:04] * Dirky (dkljhlkjh@yagenet-CE6EAF60.atho
[18:04] * kiln (theroue@yagenet-806E2F0.ccc.de)
[18:04] <Rick> The "new science" community on the other hand has been very receptive. end
[18:04] <Pescador> well i thought if somebody would have been really interested in the hypothesis etc. and wanted to take them a bit further
[18:04] <Pescador> ok, nest still
[18:04] <Pescador> There was already some questions about salvia. I read on MAPS site that you did some small scale ug work with salvia divinorum and meditation. The last update was from 2005 or so, I think. Do you have any new news about this? Did you try it double blind, on what dosage etc.
[18:04] * khronusarian (khronus@2C1A42DC.15BE185.89A9A4
[18:05] <Rick> Oh, I see. It's a very quiet field, even now. I still am looking for a young psychiatrist who can do a lot of the legwork next time around. end.
[18:05] * kemp sets mode: -v Pescador
[18:05] <kemp> thank you Pescador
[18:05] <pkeffect> i think the next in line is napping
[18:05] <pkeffect> so we will skip them for now
[18:05] <pkeffect> rchack
[18:06] * pkeffect sets mode: +v RcHaCk
[18:06] <pkeffect> you are up
[18:06] <Rick> I helped with getting the rating scale in order for the salvia-meditation study in Victoria British Columbia Canada. I don't know how far that study progressed, and lost touch with the fellow who initiated it. end.
[18:06] * jikan (juk@C68AB127.D43F6AE2.ACF7628C.
[18:06] <cass> it seems RcHaCk is napping too
[18:07] * pkeffect sets mode: +v do-0v0v
[18:07] <kemp> do-0v0v your up
[18:07] * pkeffect sets mode: -v RcHaCk
[18:08] <kemp> well, we can come back to him
[18:08] <do-0v0v> Hello Doctor. Are you doing some LSD research nowadays?
[18:09] <Rick> We had the drug and permission to start an LSD study. The constraints of the hospital setting were too great for long-acting drugs, which we discovered to be the case in our preliminary psilocybin research. LSD would have been really asking for trouble with the cramped environment. end.
[18:09] * pkeffect sets mode: -v do-0v0v
[18:09] * pkeffect sets mode: +v senz
[18:10] <Rick> Okay if I describe what I've been doing in the last while, and future plans?
[18:10] <senz> i recently read in some news magazine that the us army is exploring the use of LSD for treating
[18:10] <senz> the many iraq-veterans that have post traumatic stress disorder. do you think this will make research
[18:10] <senz> with psychedelics easier in general? and do you know of any new research projects that are going on?
[18:10] <senz> or was that news item just a hoax?
[18:10] <pkeffect> sure Rick, after this question go for it.
[18:10] * azure (azure@yagenet-C2D23D7B.hsd1.nm.
[18:10] * Gaz (gary@yagenet-B3AECB04.lns4-c11.
[18:11] <Rick> I've not heard of LSD being used for PTSD in Iraq war veterans. It's a good idea, but they would need a good solid psychedelic psychotherapist involved. Any research will spur more research, so I'm all for whomever has the desire to study these drugs more carefully for human benefit. www.maps.org and www.heffter.org have lists of current research.
[18:12] <senz> ah ok, well i meant not that its actually used yet.
[18:12] <senz> more that the army is thinking about it because the ptsd-issue is rather big now.
[18:12] <Rick> I started a non-profit here in New Mexico and our first project is the development of an ultra-sensitive assay for DMT and related compounds, so we can measure levels in people in all sorts of state--e.g., dreams, childbirth, and the like. That way, we can look deeper into the role of DMT and also not need to begin with all the permits necessary to administer drugs to people. end.
[18:12] * pkeffect sets mode: -v senz
[18:12] <pkeffect> thanks senz
[18:13] <pkeffect> anything else you would like to add here Rick before some more questions ?
[18:14] * vigilant_mind (puddinb0y@yagenet-559BCDCF.tx.r
[18:14] <Rick> I dropped out of the field, at least ostensibly, in 1995. The next year, my long-standing Buddhist community censured me for my writings about psychedelics and spirituality. A couple years later I stumbled on a book about Jewish approaches to reality. This spurred a return to my Jewish roots and a deep study of Hebrew scripture and commentary.
[18:15] <Rick> By so doing, I've developed a more solid sense of that spiritual nature of the psychedelic experience. Particularly with respect to what might be called the prophetic state of consciousness.
[18:16] <pkeffect> ready for another round ?
[18:16] <Rick> Thus, I am resuming research, but with a slightly deeper perspective. In addition to the DMT assay study, I'm very interested in seeing if ayahuasca can help drug dependent people. I work in an Hispanic community in New Mexico with a high rate of drug abuse. I think ayahuasca would be an excellent and culturally-sensitive treatment.
[18:17] <Rick> Both of these projects I hope will be funded through the new foundation. end.
[18:17] <Rick> Ready
[18:17] * pkeffect sets mode: +v ackza
[18:17] <pkeffect> ackza you are up.
[18:17] * synth (synth@BE732E6E.8AC2B4.49CF567D.
[18:17] * pinky (theroue@3431E1B.B27566E6.778FE6
[18:17] <kemp> "By the way, we have a drawing at the end of the chat for three signed editions of Dr. Strassman's book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" - if you want to enter, just send a message to "senz" stating you would like to enter the drawing.
[18:18] * pinky (theroue@yagenet-E0F54AA1.demon.
[18:18] <kemp> maybe we can come back to him
[18:18] <ackza> Someone last night told me "i don't need to smoke dmt to experience a lucid dream while awake" Would you mind elaborating on how you believe dmt is released from the pineal gland during 90 minute rem cycles and if so how much in terms of miligrams is released during spirtual expreieinces? Also are you interested in all at studying effects of pyschedelics from looking at EEG results?
[18:19] <ackza> neurofeedback
[18:20] <Rick> I think it's possible to experience high dose DMT effects without smoking DMT; that is, through endogenous production. There are not as yet definite data demonstrating DMT production by pineal--I marshall lots of circumstantial evidence in the book, but no hard data. There are other sites of DMT production, for sure, including the brain. So my theories don't all hinge on the pineal!
[18:20] * pkeffect sets mode: -v ackza
[18:20] <Rick> I think DMT may be involved REM sleep. We need a good way to measure DMT, and that's why we're developing the new assay. I don't know about mg released.
[18:20] * pkeffect sets mode: +v divstah
[18:21] <Diss> Please have your questions ready to cut and paste beforehand!
[18:21] <Rick> We did some EEG work with DMT, but it was never published. It was presented at a poster session for graduate students at a college in Washington State. end.
[18:21] * harmony (harmony@yagenet-1317DB48.lv.lv.
[18:21] * kitty (groove@yagenet-4807779C.ph.ph.c
[18:21] <pkeffect> divstah you are up
[18:21] <divstah> i was waiting for the end part
[18:21] <divstah> So what do you think about the plant known as Salvia divinorum, and do you think it's a worthwhile plant to conduct clinical research on, and if so, in what fields ?
[18:21] * harmony is now known as jason
[18:22] * kitty (groove@yagenet-4807779C.ph.ph.c
[18:22] * nagu-AL (nagu-AL@3D7A1078.9123D238.7F0B0
[18:22] <Rick> Salvia is very interesting. We ought to learn more about it, and clinical research makes sense if the proper safeguards are in place. I guess the first line of research is to characterize its effects thoroughly--like we did with DMT. Biological, psychological effects. Tolerance would be interesting to examine, too. Then, figure out how its effects might be used therapeutically. end.
[18:23] * pkeffect sets mode: -v divstah
[18:23] * pkeffect sets mode: +v adrug
[18:23] <Diss> again, folks, due to time constraints, please have your questions ready to cut and paste beforehand, if at all possible
[18:23] <pkeffect> adrug you are up
[18:23] <adrug> ty
[18:23] <adrug> Dr. Strassman, I'd like to know what inspired you to enter this field of study. Did you have personal experiences with psychedelics in your youth that led you to the the career you've chosen? I'm not asking specifics, I'm just curious as to what peaked your interest in studying these substances.
[18:23] <adrug> I would also like to thank you for your work with melatonin. It has helped me out on many sleepless occassions.
[18:23] <adrug> heh
[18:24] * the_sorrow (I@yagenet-751C14CC.sktn.hsdb.sa
[18:24] <Rick> The melatonin work was fascinating.
[18:24] * Neon (ckl52@yagenet-3567BB16.hsd1.ca.
[18:25] <Rick> I always have been interested in how the mind works. And my own subjective experiences have been, at times, extraordinary. So, I wanted to learn more this. I nearly became a Zen novice monk--but it seemed that working in the larger reality was preferable. Put off my own enlightenment, as it were. end.
[18:25] * pkeffect sets mode: -v adrug
[18:25] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Chris
[18:25] <Chris> Dr. Strassman. A relatively straight foreword question compared to some of those you have been fielding so far tonight. Have you been in contact with the producers of Coast to Coast AM to reschedule an appearance since your last visit was ended prematurely? If so, do you know if you'll be joined by George Noory or Art Bell?
[18:25] <Chris> Secondly, where do you stand concerning the neurological perspective that spiritual and psychedelic experience may simply be the excessive stimulation of two antagonistic parts of the brain at the same time. For example, Andrew Newberg and Eugene d'Aquili argued in "Brain Science and the Biology of Belief" that spiritual experiences of the closeness to God can be explained by the malfunctioning of the orientation association area th
[18:25] <Chris> at normally controls the you/not-you dichotomy or that Persinger showed that NDE can be brought about by temporal lobe seizures or even electrical stimulation.
[18:26] * naptsum (res@yagenet-CDC9DA99.metrocast.
[18:26] * pkeffect sets mode: -v Chris
[18:27] <Rick> I've not been contacted by Coast to Coast for another appearance.
[18:28] * nagu-AL (nagu-AL@3D7A1078.9123D238.7F0B0
[18:28] <pkeffect> Chris, please finish the end of the second question
[18:28] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Chris
[18:28] <Rick> Regarding "neurotheology." It seems that *something* needs to be happening in the brain when "spiritual" experiences are occurring. Next, however, is the issue of cause-and-effect. This gets beyond complicated. But, I'm willing to linger on the issue a little, now. end.
[18:29] <Chris> pkeffect: It should have pasted on the second line.
[18:29] <pkeffect> ok, thanks
[18:29] * carma (dexomsrc_@yagenet-28FDE137.com)
[18:29] * pkeffect sets mode: +v fpmx
[18:29] <pkeffect> fpmx you are up
[18:29] <fpmx> Greetings from Brazil Dr. Strassman, What were your experiences and conclusions with magic mushrooms and their main psychoactive compounds psilocin, psilocybin ?
[18:29] * finnster (dexomsrc_@yagenet-E0F54AA1.demo
[18:29] * pkeffect sets mode: -v Chris
[18:29] * hatta (hatta@yagenet-87C5231.om.om.cox
[18:31] * kiln (theroue@yagenet-806E2F0.ccc.de)
[18:31] * carma (dexomsrc_@yagenet-28FDE137.com)
[18:31] * finnster (dexomsrc_@yagenet-E0F54AA1.demo
[18:32] * |rouemirc| (theroue@yagenet-806E2F0.ccc.de)
[18:32] <Rick> We did not get far with the psilocybin work. One of our volunteers ran out of the hospital as she was peaking; and that convinced me that we needed another environment. Our plans were to characterize psilocybin effects in the same manner in which we did for DMT: biological and psychological effects. Once we got some experience giving psilocybin, I had hoped to perform some other studies with it--psychological, pharmacolo
[18:32] * Veracohr (veracohr@5B15200B.C9804E3B.1304
[18:34] <pkeffect> need to tap enter a bit more ofter Rick, so you don't get cut-off
[18:34] <pkeffect> often even
[18:34] <Rick> okay
[18:34] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Clickeyu
[18:34] <pkeffect> clickeyu go ahead
[18:34] * Clickeyu taps the mic...
[18:35] <Clickeyu> Rick, for my thesis Im writing a review of mdma research in human subjects. Im wondering about the difficulties youve had performing scientific experiments on human subjects with psychadelics. I know its generally very hard and studies where for instance mdma is administered to human subjects, such as those by Vollenweider, MAPS etc, have been widely criticized by certain people (Ricaurte etc). How do you think the opportunities of do
[18:35] * pkeffect sets mode: -v fpmx
[18:35] <Clickeyu> and the last part
[18:35] <Clickeyu> How do you think the opportunities of doing psychadelic research on human subjects will develop in the future, looking at aspects such as study approval, peer review climate, etc.
[18:36] * divstah (divstah@yagenet-D30B82B5.tn.glo
[18:37] <Rick> I wrote a paper describing the permit process, and this helped others get their research off the ground. Getting permission to do the studies is different than running the experiments and writing them up. There are general and specific criticisms level at specific psychedelic research studies. I'm happy to correspond more with you through e-mail, so let the hosts know you'd like my email address.
[18:37] <Clickeyu> thank you
[18:37] <Rick> I think if research is well-designed, and the investigators are well-qualified, there are not that many obstacles to getting permission. Funding is more difficut. end
[18:37] * jikan (juk@C68AB127.D43F6AE2.ACF7628C.
[18:38] * pkeffect sets mode: -v Clickeyu
[18:38] * pkeffect sets mode: +v fennucci
[18:38] <pkeffect> fennucci you are next
[18:38] <fennucci> How do you think we came about being able to produce DMT in our brain, & why. Obviously we have eyes to see and a nose to smell, but why do you think we've developed the ability to produce something so powerful. end~
[18:40] <Rick> Many plants produce DMT; all mammals do, too. It seems like a relatively common channel through which sentiency is produced. Meaning, that DMT is the most suitable chemical to service that purpose. Like silicon is the best material for computer chips. We are all producing DMT all the time--so its role in everyday consciousness is probably crucial, too, not just in highly altered states. end.
[18:40] * pkeffect sets mode: +v azure
[18:40] * pkeffect sets mode: -v fennucci
[18:40] * DeLude (hear@37F36E99.40BD98A1.2C67EDE2
[18:40] <pkeffect> azure, go ahead
[18:40] <azure> sorry
[18:41] <azure> Rick...Earlier, in discussing the contribution of your Jewish heritage to your renewed interest in psychedelic research, you observed 'I've developed a more solid sense of that spiritual nature of the psychedelic experience. Particularly with respect to what might be called the prophetic state of consciousness.'
[18:41] <azure> I'm a pre-med biochem student at UNM who has intermittently had some interest in eventually doing psychedelic research, but have alot of doubts about how useful these materials--working at the level of the spirit--are in the hands of a psychologist/psychiatrist: is this 'spiritual nature'/'prophetic state' in fact, something that can be understood through the scientific method, and if so...how?
[18:42] * adrug (adrug@yagenet-87C5231.om.om.cox
[18:42] * adrug (adrug@yagenet-87C5231.om.om.cox
[18:42] * DeLude (hear@37F36E99.40BD98A1.2C67EDE2
[18:43] * Grav2 (anon@yagenet-A574D10B.hsd1.ga.c
[18:43] * Grav (anon@yagenet-4E83DBFA.hsd1.ga.c
[18:44] <Rick> I think we can characterize what is the state of "prophecy," either induced by drugs or endogenously. But, more importantly, we need to understand how to channel its power for the highest good. And this requires investigation into much more than just the drugs and their effects. For example, what sort of moral, ethical, interpersonal behaviors naturally flow from that state.
[18:44] <Rick> I think we may have to come up with a new hybrid
[18:45] <azure> would this understanding have any sort of practical application in the practice of medicine?
[18:45] <Rick> That hybrid is of science and religion. Science is too narrow, and religion is too hegemonistic and wedded to the content of certain dogmas. But, we can use the best of both worlds, I think. Sort of a clinical spiritual research. end.
[18:45] <Rick> re: practical applications.
[18:45] <azure> last question, thank you
[18:45] <kemp> Would you like to take another break Dr. Strassman and continue with a few more questions in a while if you are still up for it?
on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
[18:45] <Rick> I think certainly we can turn some of those effects towards therapeutic end points.
[18:45] <Rick> end
[18:46] * Grav2 (anon@yagenet-A574D10B.hsd1.ga.c
[18:46] <Rick> Sure, we can take a break like the 1st one. Then after the next round, I'll need to attend to personal matters. end.
[18:46] <kemp> great!
[18:46] * naptsum (res@yagenet-CDC9DA99.metrocast.
[18:46] <kemp> thank you again
[18:46] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[18:46] <cass> there 'only' another 9 questioners waiting
[18:46] <]3six5[> thank you for the convo dr.
[18:46] <pkeffect> chats open again for a few people
[18:47] * fennucci (fennucci@yagenet-CCE052C.gdrpwi
[18:47] <Digs> man measuring dmt so neat lol
[18:47] <Digs> during pregnancy etc
[18:47] <flamoot_> am i the only one who finds the salvinorin experience to have nothing in common with tryptamine ecstacy whatsoever
[18:47] <Obsidian> yawn
[18:47] <kemp> By the way, we have a drawing at the end of the chat for three signed editions of Dr. Strassman's book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" - if you want to enter, just send a message to "senz" stating you would like to enter the drawing. He won't be responding to the PM's, but you will be entered in the drawing.
[18:47] <DeLude> Let me remind everyone to use the Enter key more often so their messages don't get clipped!
[18:47] <azure> boy, wish i was here earlier...the little that i saw is pretty exciting
[18:47] <nagu-AL> not much in common, no
[18:47] <pkeffect> good call DeLude
[18:47] <ObOdAoUr> thank you very much for your poignant replies!
[18:47] <flamoot_> salvinorin seems to cause a mechnical chopping-up of sensation and cognition, and when there are entities, they're always annoyed, not joyful
[18:47] * fennucci (fennucci@yagenet-CCE052C.gdrpwi
[18:47] <Digs> it's gotten better at the end azure
[18:47] <nagu-AL> eating the carpet
[18:47] <flamoot_> they act as if i've stumbled backstage without a pass and as if it's a very unwelcome distraction to have to "fix" me by getting me back where i was pre-salvia
[18:48] <]3six5[> eatting the blotter,...
[18:48] <]3six5[> anyways..
[18:48] <flamoot_> there is something wholly else going on with salvinorin and i think we're much further from comprehending it than understanding the tryptamine experiences which resonate with a familiar intelligence/humanity
[18:48] <Basidia> flamfoot I know what you mean
[18:48] <flamoot_> even in the depths of their alienness
[18:48] <flamoot_> Basidia, phew
[18:48] <nagu-AL> thats what it feel like sometimes with salvia, like the floor is going trhough my mouth
[18:48] <atreyu> azure - rest assured, with Dr. Strassman's permission we will post a transcript of the Q & A on spiritplants.org
[18:48] <flamoot_> yes rly
[18:48] <psych> flamoot_, i had very very pleasent experiences with entities..
[18:48] <azure> awesome, yea
[18:48] <]3six5[> the entities i encountered on salvia revealed a great riddle to me
[18:48] <flamoot_> psych: pleasant experiences on salvinorin are unheard-of for me
[18:48] <]3six5[> they said...
[18:49] * Grav (anon@yagenet-4E83DBFA.hsd1.ga.c
[18:49] <atreyu> everyone has their own allies...
[18:49] <ObOdAoUr> what a great chat!!!
[18:49] <]3six5[> "do you think we should tell him?" one said to the other. the other replied "i don't know" and then they both faded away
[18:49] <atreyu> I really think that the idea of clinical-spiritual research is a VERY good and timely one
[18:49] <senz> to all that have entered the drawing
[18:49] <psych> i just think they are not 'kidding'
[18:49] <Dosage_San> Mostly the times I'm on salvia I start by being very "sorry sorry sorry" for the "Sally", for 'disturbing' her... or that I take it too casually, not prepared enough for the journey.
[18:49] <senz> changing nicks and sending messages again is really really low
[18:49] <soulshine> do you people believe the entities met on psychedelics are true spirits or just creations of the mind?
[18:49] <psych> i always have good exp. when theres a good 'pourpose' yyou know
[18:49] <Clickeyu> i liked the part about the test subject running out of the hospital while peaking on mushrooms heh
[18:50] <Basidia> I've had a few pleasant experiences on salvia but many times "they" are not very welcoming
[18:50] <atreyu> the church is no longer an effective mechanism for spirituality, and a new generation of would be shamans in the west have no elders to consult for spiritual guidance.
[18:50] <Johnpdx> flamoot. try lower dosages of salvia
[18:50] <flamoot_> ]3six5[, i've had the notion that the salvia entities were trying to tell me a joke one time, when i smoked it while on lsd. that induced the most manageable salvinorin experience i've ever had, and i had the feeling that unseen beings were trying to make me laugh at how much everything looked like everything else... by tiling my recognition of objects radially across objects near them
[18:50] <davidvennik> yeah atreyu turn the microscope on the human behaviours associated with 'spirituality' a very worthwhile endeavour
[18:50] <senz> so im gonna delete you from the list, i dont say who it is, but you know who you are
[18:50] <flamoot_> Johnpdx: indeed ;|
[18:50] <ohm> forty-nine is the magic number! tell us more about that plzzzzz
[18:50] <azure> vaporized sal a seems like an odd way to deliver that particular molecule
[18:50] * harkeyahh (chatzilla@yagenet-42CF1976.slkc
[18:50] <flamoot_> aiee
[18:50] <ObOdAoUr> quid is more natural
[18:50] <]3six5[> wow
[18:50] <azure> seems kind of traumatic
[18:50] <psych> Dosage_San, wait till you have a 'objective' for the journey
[18:50] <]3six5[> i never could keep chewing quids
[18:50] <Maitreya> yeah found some
[18:50] <psych> ]3six5[, try mix ginger
[18:50] <nagu-AL> does it taste nice?
[18:51] <]3six5[> after the 4th quid i just wanted pass out
[18:51] <Dosage_San> Psych, well I do have objective.
[18:51] <ObOdAoUr> tastes greeen
[18:51] <flamoot_> at the end of almost every salvia experience i think "i'll remember not to do this again". but i never remember why it was so important not to until i do it again
[18:51] <Dosage_San> But it's hasty one.
[18:51] <Basidia> Does onyone else get a feeling that your being pulled to the left when using salvia?
[18:51] <atreyu> it we can pinpoint what is biological, what is pyschological, and how to mediate the boundaries of the psychedelic experience in a more controlled, cultured fashion,we could really have the best of both worlds.
[18:51] <psych> candied ginger maybe ]3six5[
[18:51] <azure> it'd be neat to develop a sub-buccal and standardized sal a spray
[18:51] <Obsidian> quids?
[18:51] <brainwreck> whether the entities are 'real' or a part of the experiencer's mind, it is interesting that many different people seem to meet the same entities
[18:51] <]3six5[> its not the taste that detered me
[18:51] <Ignitrance> sally quid is disgusting IMO
[18:51] <psych> Dosage_San, and still "sorry" feeling?
[18:51] <]3six5[> it was the body load
[18:51] <nagu-AL> yeah, lots of pulling
[18:51] <sHR00m> Basidia, for sure!
[18:51] <adrug> Basidia, I went "down" and "to the left" and then started to spiral
[18:51] <Dosage_San> I mean, I might try it quick fix-up for issues.
[18:51] <flamoot_> Basidia yes, or in any direction... the "salvia wind"
[18:51] <adrug> until I was in a huge black void
[18:51] <brainwreck> I found these chats by searching for " The Other " which is an entity that introduced itself to me on shrooms
[18:51] <Veracohr> My last salvia experience was kind of silly--it was like climbing to the top of a mountain to reach a guru and finding a used car lot
[18:51] <brainwreck> turns out alot of people have met " the Other "
[18:51] <ohm> yes i get the being pulled from the left feeling. as if strange forces are trying pull me to some other world
[18:51] <sHR00m> Basidia, i went left and started on the right again... later i realized i was fallen from my sofa
[18:51] <psych> Ignitrance, ya it is, but i think its the best way to 'learn' with this plant
[18:52] <dimethyl> hah Veracohr
[18:52] <Diss> The Other, for me, is a giant, lying mantid entity :/
[18:52] <]3six5[> Veracohr: thats wild
[18:52] <Dosage_San> Psych, yeah... but it's only at the start, she doesen't seem angry, I just feel I'm a bit rude and have to ask forgiveness for that
[18:52] <atreyu> basidia - absolutely, a common sensation - that and merging with objects in one's vicinity.
[18:52] <nagu-AL> yeah, car parks, advertising...
[18:52] * fennucci (fennucci@yagenet-CCE052C.gdrpwi
[18:52] <Veracohr> I just laughed because I couldn't believe the entities were trying to pass that bullshit off on me
[18:52] <ObOdAoUr> psilocin/cybin is similar chemically to DMT isnt it?
[18:52] <]3six5[> Veracohr: look into the iching hexagram : fire on the mountain
[18:52] <Basidia> For some reason with me it's always to the left
[18:52] <Obsidian> brainwreck, all brains are inherently the same mechanism
[18:52] <Johnpdx> salvia needs respect and preparation to be used. not to be taken lightly.
[18:52] <Diss> yes, in my experience the entities do lie
[18:52] <atreyu> obodaour - both are tryptamines,yes
[18:52] <Obsidian> and respond similarly
[18:52] <Ignitrance> psych:: that could be true.. concentrated salv d is mighty powerful
[18:52] <azure> i think there are as many analogies for 'the other' as analogies for 'the stone' in alchemy...all kind of melts into a non-local, non-logical, non-temporal puddle
[18:52] <nagu-AL> psilocybin= 4-phosphoryloxy-DMT
[18:52] <flamoot_> ObOdAoUr, all tryptamine hallucinogens have certain experiential markers in common
[18:53] <Ignitrance> erg, salv-A.
[18:53] <flamoot_> the same goes for psychedelic phenethylamines
[18:53] <yrm0m> What i appreciate about salvia is its nearly complete lack of human qualities. Tryptamin ecstacy contains recognizable traits like affections, love, empathy.
[18:53] <ObOdAoUr> oic
[18:53] <do-0v0v> brainwreck, SHe has a name too; Barbelith.
[18:53] <nagu-AL> inhuman!
[18:53] <yrm0m> Salvia is the strangest, most inhuman thing i have ever experienced.
[18:53] <psych> Ignitrance, smoked salvia is very very hard to understend after you get back from the journey, and i only did raw leaves!
[18:53] <flamoot_> yrm0m indeed :O salvia is so terrifyingly, coldly weird
[18:53] <yrm0m> and as such i find it very artistically inspiring
[18:53] <flamoot_> but so powerful that i keep going back hoping to crack it
[18:53] <dimethyl> ecstacy/mdma is a PEA not a tryptamine fyi
[18:53] <Obsidian> I should smoke salvia at some point
[18:53] <atreyu> hmm, I experience a wide range of emotions with salvia - even strange, unfamiliar emotions
[18:53] <soulshine> psilocin is 4-HO-DMT, DMT is N,N-DMT
[18:53] <dimethyl> its an amphetamine
[18:53] <MolokoBot> I have no idea if this is true, but this fellow who ran an invention factory told me that there's a Japanese word that means "insanity" but the actual characters in the word mean "Left-Handed Spiral"
[18:54] <flamoot_> do-0v0v lol barbelith
[18:54] <adrug> interesting MolokoBot
[18:54] <flamoot_> OH NO WHAT WE DONE
[18:54] <flamoot_> NO NO NO
[18:54] <brainwreck> " the Other " introduced itself as such with a nod and wink, knowing that I knew that we are as one, not strangers or otherness at all. This notion seems to support both ideas, that it is an autonomous entity, and also that it is a part of me
[18:54] <atreyu> the spiral is a very important geometrical construct - particularly with spirituality - anyone read Jeremy Narby's "The Cosmic Serpent"?
[18:54] <Ignitrance> psych:: so youre quite the fan of the quid?
[18:54] <nagu-AL> what brainwreck wrote
[18:54] <MolokoBot> There's a bunch of material about chirality in Neurolinguistic Programming, which is kind of an odd brand-name semi-popular therapy/field.
[18:54] <brainwreck> however, this part of myself was so alien to me, so full of new info, that the name seemed apropriate
[18:54] <brainwreck> long forgotten
[18:55] <psych> Ignitrance, im quite the fan of its effects
[18:55] * ikarma (ikarma@yagenet-2A426F93.austin.
[18:55] <Andesvirgo> These studies need to prove clinical and thereputic uses, and thankfully Rick's new work with ayahuasca may prove useful to this pathway towards legalization
[18:55] * ikarma_ (ikarma@yagenet-2A426F93.austin.
[18:55] <MolokoBot> they try to assess someone's dominant sensory modality by using eye position.
[18:55] <flamoot_> brainwreck, very well said
[18:55] <Obsidian> you sound like a Lost episode
[18:55] <psych> and teachings Ignitrance
[18:55] <Obsidian> "The Others"
[18:55] <Veracohr> I wasn't here for the beginning, what is Rick's new work with ayahuasca?
[18:55] <karma> flam, typically my salvia experiences involved entering the domain of those...beings, however although they took notice of me, they didn't seem perturbed my by presence. I, on the other hand felt uncomfortable, though I didn't feel like they had any ill will towards me
[18:55] <atreyu> lots of connections between DNA., the ayahusaca vine, the snake, the caduceus
[18:55] <adrug> many people I've talked to have described only one entity, but in my experiences, there were two.
[18:56] <joha_> any other veeples from FINLAND here?
[18:56] <yrm0m> I like that Rick considers plants conscious in some form. Many times scientifically minded people have ridiculed me for bringing up the idea.
[18:56] <adrug> unseen, but felt.
[18:56] <MolokoBot> the ramp up to several different tryptamine-related experiences involved spirals that elongated into tunnels.
[18:56] <p_q> joha hello
[18:56] <p_q> how long is the queue?
[18:56] <Wilitus> joha_ sure
[18:56] <flamoot_> karma: it's not that they want to harm me, but it's their world, not mine, and i don't belong there. it takes some time for them to notice me but when they do, the attention they pay to me seems to feel resentful
[18:56] <ohm> has anyone ever tried salvia rectaly? i'm curious to know how that would feel. smoking it is always to intense for me
[18:56] <adrug> last I knew there were 9 people in the queue
[18:56] <Ignitrance> psych:: what do u do to keep from gagging? lol
[18:56] <p_q> uh rick left already?
[18:56] <psych> unpleasent effects hardly happens when one use QUID
[18:56] <flamoot_> like they know it's unnecessary and i've caused them and myself undue trauma
[18:56] <Voda> MolokoBot i will as a friend of mine who's studying japanese about that ..interesting
[18:56] <Diss> Ive often argued a lot with vegetarians about that subject, yrm0m
[18:56] <Andesvirgo> ayahuasca treating drug addiction in New Mexico...?
[18:56] <Obsidian> ohm, jesus
[18:56] <Rick> I'm here.
[18:56] <yrm0m> haha i never thought to apply it to that situation
[18:56] <atreyu> yrmom - agreed. people tend to think that only animals with faces can feel pain of have consciousness. I think that is a very narrow definition
[18:56] <Voda> ask**
[18:56] <joha_> vau i think he is having a pause?
[18:56] <cass> :-)
[18:57] <flamoot_> i wouldnt wanna booty bump an acetone salvinorin pull
[18:57] <ObOdAoUr> shalom and namaste west and east salll good :P
[18:57] <Rick> Ready.
[18:57] <p_q> i have a question rick,, may i ask now or .. what's the deal here
[18:57] <Obsidian> Rick, are you gonna join us casual conversation for a bit?
[18:57] <Obsidian> submit through ops
[18:57] <ohm> lol flamoot_
[18:57] <pkeffect> ok
[18:57] <pkeffect> time for the last round
[18:57] <yrm0m> yes atreyu. humans tend to have extremely self centered concepts about...well, everything
[18:57] <atreyu> yrmom - I think that anything that is alive by its nature must know that it is alive and want to continue living - on a personal note, my father maintained that he could feel trees screaming when they were being cut down and he was in close proximty to them.
[18:57] <Rick> It's hard to keep track, but I can chime in, if it's okay with the moderators.
[18:57] <karma> flamoot: hm...I do get a sense that they are "possesive" of their world. It's almost as if although they know I'm infiltrating, they also know that my time there is very brief
[18:57] <do-0v0v> Rick, tell us about your buddhist practice, please.
[18:57] <psych> Ignitrance, mix it with candied ginger or somethig to help you with that taste
[18:57] <flamoot_> karma indeed, entirely
[18:57] <atreyu> rick - Please! feel free
[18:57] <Johnpdx> if you dont have respect and a connection with salvia, it will just be a weird trip. you can find balance and harmony in it when you use it correctly.
[18:57] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[18:57] <pkeffect> DeLude
[18:57] <pkeffect> one sec
[18:58] <pkeffect> Rick, I know you have things to do. If it is ok with you, I would like to take down some questions we might not get to and email them to you. Maybe whenever you have time you can reply so I can ammend them to the log from this chat ?
[18:58] <Rick> Salvia is not DMT, although it certainly is more available. The qualitative effects are different, although similar. I don't hear the same kind of stories re: salvia I do with DMT. Salvia seems to have a more menacing vibe. end.
[18:58] * pkeffect sets mode: +v DeLude
[18:59] <DeLude> Hi Dr Strassman, a single and broad question coming from a psychology student in Bulgaria:
[18:59] <DeLude> What is your view of future developed consiousness altering mechanisms through less intrusive, more controllably and possibly more easily applicable methods (than currently used chemical and electrical neuro-stimulation methods)...
[18:59] <DeLude> in the context of research, self-application for reacreation, healing, self-improvement, etc.
[18:59] <Rick> My Zen practice...Well, I don't associate with the Zen community I had for over 20 years. I learned a lot from them. But, it ultimately didn't satisfy by Western Jewish bones. The issue of God specifically. And how to live one's life in the everyday world. end.
[19:00] <Rick> Taking down questions and e-mailing them to me is fine. People can e-mail me through my site, too. rickstrassman.com
[19:00] <pkeffect> Thanks.
[19:00] * pkeffect sets mode: -vv azure DeLude
[19:00] * pkeffect sets mode: +v psych
[19:00] <psych> Hi Dr., really nice to have you here..
[19:00] <pkeffect> psych you are up
[19:01] <psych> Do you think one can reach same (spiritual, as you said) state of consciouss we have while 'journeying' without drugs ? 2) As a brazilian, I would like to know if you did any other work/research/study during your visit down here?
[19:01] <Rick> Neurostimulation...It's possible to active endogenous DMT production, I'm sure. It's just that right now to get a big amount in your brain, it's easiest to administer it.
[19:01] * furball666 (junnu.hoi@yagenet-A24C85C.elisa
[19:01] <Rick> I didn't do any research in Brazil when I was there in 1996. I was attending a conference in Manaus. I love Brazil.
[19:01] * Veracohr (veracohr@5B15200B.C9804E3B.1304
[19:02] <psych> ok thanks
[19:02] * pkeffect sets mode: +v dimethyl
[19:02] <pkeffect> dimethyl
[19:02] * Veracohr (veracohr@5B15200B.C9804E3B.1304
[19:02] * pkeffect sets mode: -v psych
[19:03] <dimethyl> Hi Dr. Strassman, I'd like to thank you for taking time to communicate
[19:03] <dimethyl> with the community, and say that it's an honour to be able to chat with
[19:03] <dimethyl> you.
[19:03] <dimethyl> I've recently read information about the discovery of the Trace
[19:03] <dimethyl> amine-associated receptors, and of alpha-Endopsychosin, an endogenous
[19:03] <dimethyl> ligand for the PCP receptor. Finding that phenylethylamine and
[19:03] <dimethyl> amphetamine (and possibly pheromone) chemicals modulate the trace amine
[19:03] <dimethyl> receptors (which cascades into other receptor systems), and that there
[19:03] <dimethyl> are indeed endogenous possibly dissociative chemical(s), do you have any
[19:03] <dimethyl> comments on the possible implications of these chemicals and receptor
[19:03] <dimethyl> areas, and their links to states of 'mystical & psychic experiences' and
[19:03] <dimethyl> mental disorders/illness?
[19:03] <dimethyl> Do you think the discovery of new receptor areas and endogenous ligand
[19:03] <dimethyl> compounds will almost entirely re-arrange the way these states,
[19:03] <dimethyl> disorders, and chemical receptions/interactions are thought about in the
[19:03] <dimethyl> very near future? Also, any speculation on other possible new receptor
[19:03] <dimethyl> areas and their relation to interesting psychoactive compounds?
[19:04] * pkeffect sets mode: -v dimethyl
[19:04] <Rick> The trace amine receptor has blown a bit of fresh air into the field of psychedelic studies.
[19:05] <Rick> It's only a matter of time before people are talking about psychedelic consciousness in the same way in which we nowadays talk about the unconscious, psychological mechanisms, like denial. Freudian slips, the meaning of dreams, etc.
[19:05] <Rick> That is, it will be common knowledge and so true for most people that the arena of discussion of these states will extend into ordinary conversations.
[19:06] <Rick> At least, that's my optimistic stance. end.
[19:06] * pkeffect sets mode: +v nagu-AL
[19:06] <pkeffect> nagu-AL you are up
[19:06] <nagu-AL> Hi Doc, i like how you ended your book..."And then i opened my eyes". Great stuff...
[19:06] <Rick> I think I'll sign off in 9 minutes. end.
[19:06] <nagu-AL> Anyway, could you speculate on long-term tolerance of parenterally (ie smoked) use of DMT? It has been noted by people who have smoked it over 100 times that they don't really get much out of it anymore...
[19:07] <nagu-AL> This kind of long-term tolerance doesn't seem to develop with ayahuasca. The general feeling seems to be that there simply is no more work for them to do in that space,
[19:07] <nagu-AL> and that's why not much happens when they smoke it these days...
[19:07] <nagu-AL> But is there a possible scenario that this could be a bio-chemical phenomenon , in that the way the DMT is introduced to the system in ayahuasca (via MAO inhibition) prevents this tolerance from developing?
[19:07] <nagu-AL> What could be the role of melatonin in all of this?
[19:07] <Rick> I haven't heard of long-term tolerance to smoked DMT. In fact, my friend who's smoked so much DMT found it continually effective.
[19:08] * random (random@yagenet-B5285514.onton.j
[19:08] <Rick> I agree that ayahuasca with its other constituents, might prevent long-term tolerance (if indeed this is an issue with pure DMT).
[19:08] <Rick> I don't know how melatonin would fit into this scenario. I suppose we'd need to look at melatonin in response to ayahuasca. DMT didn't stimulate melatonin secretion in our studies. end.
[19:08] * pkeffect sets mode: -v nagu-AL
[19:09] * pkeffect sets mode: +v Dosage_San
[19:09] <Dosage_San> Hello Strassman. I'd like to know your opinion on the role of DMT (or psychedelics in general) as a trigger for self-improvement. Be it awakened desire for spiritual growth or healthier lifestyle... Even if there is no contact with subject during the journey, after few days you come to realise the issues you have to work with. What's the underlying process? What is happening in the "background" that our conscious mind don't see/realis
[19:09] <Dosage_San> e (and put to form as ideas)?. Spiritual guidance seems cheap/easy answer to this.
[19:09] <Dosage_San> Thanks for being here. Suvi says hi!
[19:10] * pkeffect sets mode: -v Dosage_San
on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
[19:11] <Rick> The Zen monks I spoke with, in my (and their) 20's, all seemed to agree that LSD provided them with the first view of truly expanded awareness. For them, the next step was to work on it in smaller more manageable parses--everyday life, and meditation, and ritual. Huston Smith likes to point out that psychedelic experiences are not the same as a psychedelic life.
[19:11] <Rick> I'm not sure how this works. Certainly, people have new insights on psychedelics, psychologicaly that is. However, we may open ourselves up to "spiritual" issues that work behind the scenes.
[19:12] <Rick> And then there are the biological effects that might take time to settle in. end.
[19:12] <pkeffect> Ok people, its time for goodbyes, if you want your questions asked to Rick to be answered later just PM me.
[19:12] <pkeffect> -
[19:12] <pkeffect> I'd like to personally thank Dr. Strassman and Kemp for making this happen. Also a thanks to all of you for being here and being respectful of our guest.
[19:12] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[19:12] <cenacle_> thank you doctor!!!!
[19:12] <pkeffect> Thanks Rick
[19:12] <]3six5[> dr: whats your favorite color? who's your favorite musical artist? and; who is your favorite visual artist?
[19:12] <Maitreya> thnx
[19:12] <davidvennik> DANKE SCHOEN!
[19:12] <Obsidian> thanks Rick
[19:13] <ohm> Thankyou Dr Strassman!!!!!!!! much love @ you
[19:13] <ObOdAoUr> thanks alot
[19:13] <kemp> Well, I really want to thank you Dr. Strassman for coming by again to our little chat. You really bring in a great crowd everytime you show up!
[19:13] <sHR00m> thank you dr strassman
[19:13] <Obsidian> come by and chat sometime!
[19:13] <ObOdAoUr> very insightful
[19:13] <]3six5[> and thank you again Dr.
[19:13] <p_q> uhh
[19:13] * yrm0m (yourm@yagenet-3DE0DF42.dhcp.ins
[19:13] <Obsidian> we can use more good minds on IRC
[19:13] <Diss> Thank you Dr. Strassman, very much
[19:13] <Ignitrance> thanks Dr. rick
[19:13] <Basidia> ahh, I was next to ask a question. Eh, thanks Dr. for your time.
[19:13] <p_q> gddamn did not have time to aask, but thank you rick
[19:13] <Rick> I like blue. I like Shpongle and Bach; and I like Alex Grey and Anderson Debernardi and Pablo Amaringo.
[19:13] <]3six5[> <3 <3 <#
[19:13] <Obsidian> hey I was gonna ask that
[19:13] <]3six5[> awesome RICK!!
[19:13] <Puppy> YIPPEE!
[19:13] <Maitreya> you can email him
[19:13] <Obsidian> shpongle?
[19:13] <cenacle_> sphongle!
[19:13] <cenacle_> whoot
[19:13] <p_q> anyway, im gonna toss the question here for veryone
[19:13] <Obsidian> I'm listening to them!
[19:13] <cenacle_> shpongle rocks
[19:13] <soulshine> thanks for taking the time to be here
[19:13] <]3six5[> ;D
[19:13] <senz> Rick, please be our fortune-fee for that raffle
[19:13] <Ignitrance> shpongle rules
[19:14] <karma> shponnnnnnnnnnnnnngle
[19:14] <slmatic> [phil@tetsuo]# Hello Dr. Strassman, its a pleasure speaking with you. I would be interested in your opinion on the current popularity of the ssri class of drugs, given their questionable side effects and efficacy. Do you think that your studies with dmt/ayahuasca and beyond will ever be given a platform as wide and as much public access as they currently enjoy ?
[19:14] <nagu-AL> i was sphongled recently
[19:14] <TiK> Thanks for your time Dr.
[19:14] <pkeffect> yea, sorry you guys didnt get to get to ask your questions, just pm them to me if you want them added to the chat log or you can email rick from his sight.
[19:14] <Obsidian> good call Doctor
[19:14] <p_q> I think the most interesting thing about DMT are the encounter with beings and the other reality it seems to bring about. I have been really wondering about this,
[19:14] <Obsidian> good taste in music
[19:14] <ObOdAoUr> we appreciate it
[19:14] <kemp> oh yes, the raffle!~
[19:14] <p_q> what is going on there, then a friend of mine tosssed quite a good point I think. He said that the aliens and the elves are thoughts, that they are a visual
[19:14] <ohm> haha yes im listening to bach fuges right now. bach is awesoeme!!
[19:14] <Obsidian> check out Tool
[19:14] <p_q> representation of thoughts popping and the place is your pure consciousness. What do you think about this, or what is your theory about the encounters?
[19:14] <pkeffect> stick around for the book give aways
[19:14] <Rick> Signing off for now. Feel free to contact me through my site.
[19:14] <senz> Rick, please choose three numbers from the range 1-55
[19:14] <cenacle_> bye bye dr.
[19:14] <Andesvirgo> Bach Rules, thanks doc
[19:14] <Johnpdx> Thanks Rick
[19:14] <psych> thank you Rick
[19:14] <]3six5[> peace love and light Dr.Rick
[19:14] <jason> Good day, doctor.
[19:14] * himdumb (himdumb@yagenet-134147E7.hsd1.g
[19:14] <Diss> thanks again Dr strassman
[19:14] <Obsidian> namaste, rick
[19:14] <]3six5[> namaste
[19:14] * jason (harmony@yagenet-1317DB48.lv.lv.
[19:14] * stardance waves
[19:14] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[19:14] <pkeffect> hey Rick
[19:14] <pkeffect> real fast
[19:14] * Rick (rickstrass@yagenet-F7E93FE8.dia
[19:15] <pkeffect> damn
[19:15] <pkeffect> there goes that plan
[19:15] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[19:15] <]3six5[> lmao
[19:15] <pkeffect> lol
[19:15] <psych> haha
[19:15] <kitty> lol
[19:15] <psych> haha
[19:15] <ObOdAoUr> hehe
[19:15] <slmatic> hehe
[19:15] <Obsidian> what was the plan
[19:15] <Basidia> ha
[19:15] <pkeffect> we needed 3 random #'s
[19:15] <cenacle_> haha
[19:15] <senz> should have told him before heh
[19:15] <nagu-AL> you're pretty fast yourself , pk
[19:15] <pkeffect> :p
[19:15] <cass> my sincere apologies to anyone who was waiting to ask a Q and missed out
[19:15] <cenacle_> 4 33 55
[19:15] <Basidia> 12 35 47
[19:15] <]3six5[> i have 3 for u...
[19:15] <Ignitrance> awe.t oo bad pk
[19:15] <]3six5[> 3 six and 5
[19:15] <MolokoBot> could add up a checksum modulo 55 of his last three lines.
[19:15] <]3six5[> ;D
[19:15] <Obsidian> it's all good cass
[19:15] <senz> no
[19:15] <Obsidian> there's like 9000 people in here
[19:15] <soulshine> How does DMT relate to near death experiences? And why do people at times feel like they are dying when a large dose is taken? I've heard one speculation that it could just be ego death.
[19:15] <cass> you may email Rick thru his website
[19:15] <Obsidian> I never thought to see my question
[19:15] <ObOdAoUr> we could work out the gematric value of his last sentence
[19:15] <Obsidian> but he answered it anyway
[19:15] <cenacle_> people are running out
[19:15] <slmatic> cat /dev/random
[19:15] <cenacle_> down to 101
[19:15] <cenacle_> from 110
[19:16] <cenacle_> be down to 20 in ten min
[19:16] <kemp> we got the numbers
[19:16] <davidvennik> hehe
[19:16] <flamoot_> dr strassman, i frequently refer to ayahuasca as "mankind's only legitimate medicine". the solar-rational model underlying modern thought de-emphasises the internal
[19:16] <flamoot_> reality and thus denies the self-evident healing properties found in the ayahuasca (or psilocybin etc) experience, in favour of pharmaceuticals which
[19:16] <flamoot_> one must take all day every day until constant exposure causes personality changes which "enhance" our functioning in society. from your interaction with the
[19:16] <flamoot_> scientific and psychedelic worlds, do you see this beginning to change in our lifetimes? could mckenna's "archaic revival" really be in mankind's near
[19:16] <flamoot_> future or are we only partway down a long path through a dark wood? obviously i'd rather live in a world that assigns existential reality to our subjective
[19:16] <Jay> 114.
[19:16] <ObOdAoUr> ill be one of those 20
[19:16] <flamoot_> world and in which psychedelic therapy was accessible and encouraged.
[19:16] <kemp> lets mod this thing PK
[19:16] <flamoot_> ;_;
[19:16] <adrug> he left, guys.
[19:16] <adrug> enough with the questions
[19:16] <pkeffect> ok
[19:16] <flamoot_> at least i got it off my chest
[19:16] * pkeffect sets mode: +m
[19:16] <pkeffect> time to give away signed books
[19:16] * Digs (rmcroberts@yagenet-84BF1805.fib
[19:16] <pkeffect> not boobs you pervs
[19:16] <pkeffect> :p
[19:16] * slmatic (slmatic@yagenet-5762AA2.suspici
[19:16] <Diss> chest, boobs, get it?
[19:16] <pkeffect> senz should be announcing it....
[19:16] * Diss laughs at flamoot
[19:17] <kemp> we will have names in one sec
[19:17] * nagu-AL (nagu-AL@3D7A1078.9123D238.7F0B0
[19:17] <kemp> drum roll please
[19:17] * ]3six5[ crosses his fingers, and bribes senz
#spiritplants You need voice (+v) (#spiritplants)
[19:17] <pkeffect> umm dun dun dun...ching
[19:17] <cass> haha
[19:17] <kemp> 1st is - magickow
[19:17] <Diss> yay magickow!
[19:17] * cass claps
[19:17] <pkeffect> congrats
[19:18] * p_q (p_q@yagenet-826D2221.kas.fi) Quit (Quit: funk!)
[19:18] <kemp> pm me with you contact info and we can dicuss getting a book to you
[19:18] <kemp> 2nd is fred
[19:18] <Diss> yay fred!
[19:18] <pkeffect> w00t fred
[19:18] <cass> wow, freddie
[19:18] <kemp> 3rd
[19:18] <cass> hehe
[19:18] <pkeffect> and our final winner ?
[19:18] <kemp> is
[19:18] <kemp> cenacle_
[19:18] <cass> wow
[19:18] <pkeffect> :o
[19:18] <Diss> yay cenacle
[19:18] <Diss> !
[19:18] <cass> coolies
[19:19] * pkeffect sets mode: -m
[19:19] <cenacle_> :O
[19:19] <cenacle_> no fuck
[19:19] <sHR00m> well thats not me
[19:19] <]3six5[> NOOOO
[19:19] * Obsidian kicks a pebble
[19:19] <fred> it's cause I'm the magikal
[19:19] <Voda> congrats all
[19:19] <psych> cenny
[19:19] <ObOdAoUr> cg
[19:19] <psych> hehe
[19:19] <Obsidian> I never win nothin
[19:19] <adrug> thanks for the event, guys.
[19:19] <magickow> lol
[19:19] <karma> IT WAS RIGGED
[19:19] <hatta> cass, don't slur indians like that!
[19:19] <]3six5[> lmao
[19:19] * kitty weeps
[19:19] <cenacle_> lol
[19:19] <soulshine> oh I thought yall were kickin him out
[19:19] <cenacle_> wow
[19:19] <psych> Obsidian, same here hehe
[19:19] <Wilitus> RRRiggged
[19:19] <]3six5[> congratz all u...
[19:19] <MolokoBot> thanks for making this happen, that was quite interesting and fresh.
[19:19] <fred> so how do I claim my prize?
[19:19] <pkeffect> if it were rigged i would have gotten one
[19:19] <cenacle_> damn
[19:19] <pkeffect> :p
[19:19] * Jay nods.
[19:19] <pkeffect> lol
[19:19] * kitty smokes dmt and weeps some more
[19:19] <cass> haha
[19:19] <]3six5[> ahaha
[19:19] <fred> it was rigged by elves
[19:19] <kemp> pm me some details fred
[19:19] <ohm> i'll get the elves to sign mine
[19:19] * Obsidian is gonna wait in the parking lot for Fred
[19:19] * TiK (TiK@yagenet-36EAEA46.sktn.hsdb.
[19:19] * kitty (groove@yagenet-4807779C.ph.ph.c
[19:19] <]3six5[> i'm happy, i got the last question in
[19:19] <Obsidian> I'll get my book
[19:19] <fred> awesome thanks
[19:19] <Johnpdx> not rigged..... s'karma lol
[19:19] <karma> I havent sacrificed to the elves lately SHIT
[19:19] * Neon (ckl52@yagenet-3567BB16.hsd1.ca.
[19:19] <kemp> or email at kempton @yage.net
[19:19] <ambientia> this was nice
[19:19] <cenacle_> and to think i just downloaded his book
[19:19] <ObOdAoUr> i need to order the book
[19:19] <senz> and cenacle_
[19:19] <Voda> thank you all guys who made this happen
[19:19] <Diss> thanks for the event everyone, it was great, maybe we can do it again soon!
[19:19] <senz> you surely didnt deserve it
[19:19] <pkeffect> watch them drop like flies now
[19:19] <senz> 00:55 <cenacle_> enter me
[19:19] <senz> 00:55 <cenacle_> fucker
[19:19] <cenacle_> no i didnt
[19:19] <]3six5[> lmao
[19:19] <Pescador> thanks for the event. really cool that you did this
[19:19] * thomasKMFDM (tkmfdm@yagenet-1C846365.direct-
[19:20] <cenacle_> aw shucks
[19:20] * Maitreya (none@79B479B4.AC854951.3708E862
[19:20] <]3six5[> DIBS!
[19:20] <]3six5[> DIBS!
[19:20] <]3six5[> DIBS!
[19:20] <Obsidian> I'd just like to say hi to all the people I havent seen in a while
[19:20] <pkeffect> thats for coming everyone
[19:20] <dimethyl> congrats cenacle_, magickow, fred
[19:20] <cenacle_> this event rocked
[19:20] <Chris> order the book from the website and you'll get a signed copy, plus rick strassman gets more money
[19:20] <cenacle_> truly
[19:20] <pkeffect> thanks even
[19:20] <Obsidian> not that anyone missed me
[19:20] <kemp> thanks for showing up everyone!
[19:20] <Obsidian> but HI!
[19:20] * cass sparks up
[19:20] <cenacle_> everyone who did it rocked
[19:20] <]3six5[> DIBS! he don't want it!!!!!
[19:20] <Diss> thanks Chris, I will make a note of that
[19:20] <azure> that went well, didn't it
[19:20] <]3six5[> i call DIBS!
[19:20] <dimethyl> thanks for whoever organised this chat, pkeffect, cass, kemp, whoever
[19:20] <kemp> hi obsidian
[19:20] <cenacle_> we ought to be proud
[19:20] <Johnpdx> its a great book
[19:20] <cenacle_> its mine
[19:20] <Obsidian> kemp, GET ALEX GREY
[19:20] <cenacle_> damnit
[19:20] <]3six5[> aqw
[19:20] <ObOdAoUr> woot woot
[19:20] <ohm> much thanks to whoever made this possible. this made my day! much love and all that
[19:20] <cenacle_> nobody can have it
[19:20] <]3six5[> :|
[19:20] * Wilitus (Wilitus@yagenet-C75B43A3.dhcp.i
[19:20] * ObOdAoUr packs the bong
[19:20] <pkeffect> guess its time to start editing the log. this is gonna take me awhile
[19:20] <cenacle_> mine mine mine
[19:20] <kemp> on the list now
[19:20] <]3six5[> ok
[19:20] <]3six5[> enjoy
[19:20] <Diss> thanks Chris, I will make a note of that
[19:20] <psych> kemp, ur the man :>
[19:20] <Andesvirgo> thanks to all the mods here who made this happen. You guys rock
[19:20] * PineTreePang (username@yagenet-A7CE6DA6.natck
[19:20] <cenacle_> kemp is the man
[19:20] * ]3six5[ weeps some more
[19:20] <Obsidian> get yourself a hard drink pk
[19:20] <ObOdAoUr> thnx guys/gals
[19:21] <pkeffect> if i had one
[19:21] <Basidia> I'll be crying over at the Lyceaum. Peace.
[19:21] * Pescador (eioo@yagenet-1C0BEB44.elisa-laa
[19:21] <]3six5[> swell job mod'n pk
[19:21] <fred> make it look real professional like pk so other authors want to come
[19:21] <]3six5[> and kemp
[19:21] * Dm7 (cant@yagenet-4AE165D3.zeelandne
[19:21] <cass> awww, you'll get special treatment next time Basidia
[19:21] <fred> cause 100 people is probably worth most peoples time
[19:21] <cass> you missed out huh?
[19:21] <pkeffect> it will be posted here first with the others.... http://pkeffect.com/neurotransli
[19:21] * ]3six5[ quits logging and begins formatting
[19:21] <Basidia> nobody loves me
[19:21] <pkeffect> then at other sites
Session Close: Sat May 26 19:21:54 2007
on a stick
Loc: Mobile, AL, WTF
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
holy shit that's long... OH WELL 3SIX5 MADE ME DO IT I SWEAR
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
I'd like to view a cleaned up version.. if anyone can be fucked ?
Loc: on top of the wo
Cleaned up version.
One foot in, one
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Awesome. Dr. Strassman is a true hero for pursuing and sharing what he's done. Wish there were more MDs like him, it would help to shatter the pall cast upon the psychedelic world by the powers-that-be misinformation campaign.
Here is the cleaned up version of the log that I made while the chat was taking place.
Loc: USG Ishimura
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
Thanks for posting this.
fade like a sigh
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
rick is shpongled
there's no love in fear
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