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InvisibleIcelander
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This loving heart. * 2
    #6958516 - 05/23/07 08:16 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Of all the things I have come to suspect in a long life. The one I suspect the most is that love is the most important for me and maybe for the whole human race. I grew up without much of it and have learned that there is not much of it being shared around. Most of what people call love just so much talk. I suspect this is true because I have been so guilty of it myself.

Around my 50th year of life I had an experience that put me into a total unconditional love state for about 6 hours. It changed me dramatically. For the next 6 months I shared this new found perspective with everyone I met. Slowly my old patterns reformed as there wasn't to much support and I couldn't sustain that state with all my old patterns returning. It wasn't like the old days but it wasn't too much better either.

I have found that it's a lot of work to make love important enough to face all the changes I need to make and to be the kind of human I want to be and how I would really like my world to be. I'm often hateful and pissy and self-indulgent and spiteful. Fearful rotten and ugly. Sometimes though, little a love pokes through to remind me of what I'm missing.

I'm not posting this in way of a confession. I'm posting this to remind myself and state openly for myself what needs work in my life. I've been thinking about this often lately.

Often when you see me being very argumentative here you know I'm not doing to well on feeling love. Just so you know.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ROMANTIC LOVE


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/26/07 11:11 AM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #6958618 - 05/23/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, love is an amazing thing. Love is perhaps the greatest catalyst to our ability to change as human beings and to become more conscious of our experience and of reality.

Love will defy convention and one will observe phenomenon that transcends any traditional conception of the nature of reality. It is wonderfully amazing to truly love someone and to know that they truly love you. It sort of just progresses itself, in the most natural way, but in a manner that leaves those experiencing the love to really wonder how it could all have happened... :strokebeard: :sherlock:

It is something that one could not possibly have imagined even days beforehand. :shocked:

As far as experiencing reality immersed within this love, it is really only as difficult as the mind makes it to be. The past is what obstructs the natural state of being known as love from being consciously experienced. The less we think of ourselves and of reality as we have previously conceived it, and the more we direct our focus and attention into our perceptions, and look at how we can consciously act within the present moment in order to create ourselves and to influence the creation of reality, then the easier it is to be within that continual state of love. :heartpump:

I think someone deserves some belated love. :hug:

Love is like... pure energy. Our lives can be a path of constantly immersing ourselves within that energy, more and more, in each moment. If one finds one's true love, then it happens naturally, with no real obstruction. Reality simply flows.... :levitate:

:whistling:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6958696 - 05/23/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Love is what keeps us going in the day. Sometimes we lose love and change our whole existance of being just to get it back. Sometimes it's with the same person, and sometimes someone new. Sometimes the someone new can never live up to the last, and you come to realize over time what you had and lost. So you strive, you strive to make the necessary changes to know you are capable of regaining that same form of happiness. Regardless of where it comes from.

The thing is... to me, that's the best part. Never knowing the feelings that are in store. To keep on striving for the ability to be loved. Sometimes we need to love ourselves first before we can allow someone else to as well. It's a thrilling emotion and one in which never goes away until we stop breathing. It is always within us in some shape or form. It's leading us to the next day.


--------------------
"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: DrCamacho89]
    #6958778 - 05/23/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not certain that it is love that keeps everyone going throughout the day, yet perhaps on a deeper level the desire to be loved is the primary motivation.

Sometimes you find someone that removes all doubt regarding what will happen or if one will lose that love or etc. etc. etc. and you know that every single day is one more step, deeper and deeper into this amazing, mutual experience of love. There is no strive in such a circumstance, only the teasing frustration of the nature of circumstances that cannot be presently rearranged enough within that exact moment to allow two people to fully express their love for each other within that moment. :grin:

Yet the experience of the growing love allows reality to flow by its own accord, bringing them into each other's arms in the most natural, conscious way. :hug:

Love is an amazing state. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6959023 - 05/23/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I want to include here that this thread is not about romantic love. That is conditional love and not what I am refering to here.

I'm not putting down romantic love mind you but that's another topic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6959168 - 05/23/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I want to include here that this thread is not about romantic love. That is conditional love and not what I am refering to here.

I'm not putting down romantic love mind you but that's another topic.




Romantic love is conditional love? Could you perhaps elaborate upon this one? How exactly is romantic love, conditional love?

Personally, I see romantic love developing from unconditional love. In fact, true romantic love could only arise from unconditional love.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6959195 - 05/23/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Did some searching on Wikipedia for a definition...

Quote:


Romantic love is a form of love that is often regarded as different from mere needs driven by sexual desire or lust, or material and social gain. Romantic love generally involves a mix of emotional and sexual desire, as opposed to Platonic love. There is often, initially, more emphasis on the emotions than on physical pleasure.

Properties of romantic love purported by Western culture include these:

It cannot be easily controlled.
It is not overtly (initially at least) predicated on a desire for sex as a physical act.
If requited, it may be the basis for lifelong commitment.




Could you explain to me precisely how romantic love could not be unconditional love as well?

After reading that, romantic love is sounding better and better. :loveeyes: :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god] * 1
    #6960591 - 05/24/07 08:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Romantic love is conditioned upon the beloved being a partner to you.  While an extremely healthy relationship between romantic and sexual partners could include most of the aspects of unconditional love, it would still be predicated upon all the conditions we have as to who we wish to be partnered with, and how that partner should behave in regard to ourself and the relationship.

Romantic love is also usually idealistic, and partners tend to ignore or minimize their lover's faults, while exalting their virtues.  This is not a good basis for clear-headed, unconditional love, which would require seeing all of their strengths and weaknesses, and offering them love based upon their being.

This is just my take on it, of course, so your mileage may vary. :wink:

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6960713 - 05/24/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I'm a cynical and removed person I think.

I did not come in this way. And in so assessing what went wrong I have come to build an elaborate identity out of crusader against that which siphons love out of society.

This, however, is not done out of love.

I came in unconditional, an exuberant spirit. I was then thrust into absolute vile and repugnant shit. And in time it got so into me that I was a suicidal adolescent.

And so now I am wondering why fuck all why, and so I spend my time lambasting television.

Because when I think about love, I think about the things the suck it out of everyone. All these petty reactionary egoistic bullshit games are NOT the games children play! Why does being mature mean regressing to a state of fallen nature? And there you have all my immeasurable observations about society and the programming it gives us..... right down to the very notion that a catalyst for overwhelming love and empathy is against the law. (LSD)

i feel like we are trapped in an evil Satanic kind of place that atrophies any sense of compassion and kills families......... I feel that way because it got so into me that I forgot who I was.

and I'm still not that person that I was when I was born, before I got exposed to the vile and repugnant side of humanity and lost my good company, my honestness and openness taken away and censored with violent speech by my immeasurable sea of peers.

Love is powerful, overwhelming, completely centered. No ego. So when I see idols to the ego mounted everywhere transmitting petty nonsense I want to destroy them.

But.....

maybe I am better served elsewhere with other interests? I really don't know anymore..... this little first grader was like something something "blow your mom's head off with a flamethrower"

that's how young the garbage seeps in! At least he didn't mean it though.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: leery11]
    #6960728 - 05/24/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Icelander, what caused your state of love?

Would you mind sharing that? it sounds very interesting.

How often does everyone feel powerful love in their experience of reality ? I really need to increase it so much.

To me love is not that empty and lifeless word called "love" that we throw around so carelessly. It is that ineffable state of grace that you just beam to everyone.

I feel as if we mistake the word for the feeling. I wonder what allows the feeling to be.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god] * 1
    #6960762 - 05/24/07 09:30 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Did some searching on Wikipedia for a definition...

Quote:


Romantic love is a form of love that is often regarded as different from mere needs driven by sexual desire or lust, or material and social gain. Romantic love generally involves a mix of emotional and sexual desire, as opposed to Platonic love. There is often, initially, more emphasis on the emotions than on physical pleasure.

Properties of romantic love purported by Western culture include these:

It cannot be easily controlled.
It is not overtly (initially at least) predicated on a desire for sex as a physical act.
If requited, it may be the basis for lifelong commitment.




Could you explain to me precisely how romantic love could not be unconditional love as well?

After reading that, romantic love is sounding better and better. :loveeyes: :smirk:




What Veritas said.:thumbup:

Unconditional love is the love that is given freely and without condition to everyone equally. That includes all those we don't like or are afraid of or we just broke up with. Romantic love is attachment to an object that turns us on. As Veritas said with time and experience (living together day in and day out when it gets messy and ugly and beautiful) there can be unconditional aspects to relationships too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #6960978 - 05/24/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Romantic love is beautiful, but usually has so much baggage attached that it's hard to enjoy.  At least for me, I have a tendency to be insecure.

The deepest, strongest, purest love I have ever known was when my children were born.  There's absolutely nothing on earth like it.  I can actually feel the love like a presence in our home.:heart:


--------------------

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6961061 - 05/24/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Romantic love is conditioned upon the beloved being a partner to you.




Romantic love itself might be distinctive from unconditional love, in that not all unconditional love is romantic love, but I do not see romantic love as not being unconditional love.

You know, sort of like how a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. :smirk:

My point is that one can love someone unconditionally and also love them romantically. It is only one love, of course, simply that it has more characteristics than simply unconditional love.


Quote:


While an extremely healthy relationship between romantic and sexual partners could include most of the aspects of unconditional love, it would still be predicated upon all the conditions we have as to who we wish to be partnered with, and how that partner should behave in regard to ourself and the relationship.




Would loving someone romantically imply that one would not be capable of unconditionally loving everyone? How precisely could romantic love not share all aspects that unconditional love exhibits? Does loving some random person unconditionally imply that one holds no preferences as to how they to behave and associate with that person? :what:

How does preferring to center one's life around a relationship with another, in a romantic manner, and holding preferences as to how one behaves in regards to their relationship (did you just say "should" :what: :confused:), imply that the love is not also unconditional love?

Quote:


Romantic love is also usually idealistic, and partners tend to ignore or minimize their lover's faults, while exalting their virtues.




How is the choices that individuals make a testament to the nature of romantic love? At the very least, is the "romantic love" that some share the same as that which others share? Either "romantic love" is an objective, distinct phenomenon and the difference is simply in how people act in regards to that, or it is a phenomenon that is entirely dependent on the nature of the relationship amongst two individuals, and is defined by their choices as to how they will feel and how they will relate.

Personally, I think it is the second one. Yet I do have a sense of the ideal implied by the phrase "romantic love", and refer to this sense when I propose ideas regarding it. I think someone who is in romantic love with another is so immersed in the experience of being with each other that they are more aware of the nature of reality, as they are more fully experiencing it, and that they will naturally see their partner as the truly exist.

If it is idealistic, it is because these individuals experience each other's higher self, and realize the vast potential within each other. I don't see how this implies that they neglect paying attention to certain elements of each other, but rather see it as an opportunity for each other to grow and develop. True romantic love would imply that there is no true distinction between the being of each other. :heartpump:

Quote:


  This is not a good basis for clear-headed, unconditional love, which would require seeing all of their strengths and weaknesses, and offering them love based upon their being.




Perhaps you simply refer to a misconception of the nature of romantic love? Perhaps you have witnessed some who have behaved in such a way and it seemed very close to true, unconditional, romantic love, but fell short in some respects? :shrug: This is simply speculation, as I could not verify that my perspective on the matter is any less than a misconception as the one that you have proposed, beyond simply proposing the point in relation to my proposed perspective as a whole. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6961107 - 05/24/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Love is a splendid state to be in :heartpump:. In fact, it is the state that makes the rest of the states seem so pale and limited. It is something that is truly hard to put into words or explain since the actual feeling speaks for itself :yinyang:
The best way I can describe love that state of pure bliss mixed with energy, empathy, joy, awareness and the desire of manifestation on every possible aspect all the time :mushroom2:  ...it is something that comes from our deepest selves and which affirms our true nature, beyond any pre-conceived ideas and structures.
It is what changes lives, mentalities and defeats any old patterns. I guess I can compare it with the feeling of being able to see after a very long period when one was kept in the dark, but that too is just an aspect of what love really is.

Quote:

Love is like... pure energy. Our lives can be a path of constantly immersing ourselves within that energy, more and more, in each moment. If one finds one's true love, then it happens naturally, with no real obstruction. Reality simply flows.... :levitate:




:heartpump:
Indeed, this feelings like it has a life of it's own.
Love is the most powerful "ally" one can have. When one is coming from love, one radiates love, breathes love and makes others around feel it too... I think/feel that it is the only feeling that puts one in direct contact with this Universe  :psychsplit:

Quote:

Sometimes you find someone that removes all doubt regarding what will happen or if one will lose that love or etc. etc. etc. and you know that every single day is one more step, deeper and deeper into this amazing, mutual experience of love. There is no strive in such a circumstance, only the teasing frustration of the nature of circumstances that cannot be presently rearranged enough within that exact moment to allow two people to fully express their love for each other within that moment. :grin:




Love is the most authentic form of affirmation of the reality we experience when we're in that state. :smirk: We imprint, we transmit our deepest and strongest wants to our reality. It is the thing that removes all doubts or ambiguities - coming in contact with that state gives us the clear perception that we're one with the person we love :yinyang:


To Veritas:
I also don't think that love is different from situation to situation, since love is a feeling (coming from beyond any social or psychological construct), not a thought. We only believe that romantic love is conditioned because we see so many cases where people fail as a couple. They fail as a couple because it wasn't true love in the first place (and that is mainly because those people never got over some selfish issues they had, when they don't know their true selves, when they feel like they have something to hide from their partner)... True love, regardless it's implications and the nature of the relationship (lovers, friends,  relatives, strangers, etc) IS unconditional love.
When we love we become more conscious. In extent, consciousness itself is a remover of selfishness and it's implications.

Quote:

This is not a good basis for clear-headed, unconditional love, which would require seeing all of their strengths and weaknesses, and offering them love based upon their being.




Ohhh but when we become aware we see all the sides of our partner ( both "good" and "bad" ) but due to the fact that we're experiencing true love we rid of being judgmental because that's what awareness is all about. When one understands the true and full texture of a situation one realizes that there's no "good" or "bad" because one is able to see everything in colors, not in black and white.
We are able to feel unconditional love because we reach such a good understanding that we don't see people as being "good" or "bad", "strong" or "weak" anymore. I don't understand why you say that this doesn't apply to romantic love. :shrug:
You say that romantic love is not clear-headed. I don't see it that way. Did you make that statement just because romantic love also implies desire? And that desire can make one unable to think straight? If it is so, I think that your opinion is kind of of preconceived because of what I've also mentioned earlier: the multitude of cases where people fail as a couple. And again, I'm saying that I'm precise that they fail as a couple not because the nature of the relationship and it's implications, but because of their own immaturity and inability to make the the distinction between simple attraction and love. Namely sexual desire does not come as an enemy to love, but as something that only makes the relationship even more complex.

Anyone who has experienced real love will tell you that it defies any possible definition, and any attempt to define it can be subject to speculation since words are dead and don't carry inside the energy of the feeling :heartpump: :smirk:
We need to be able to distinguish between feelings themselves and thoughts about feelings.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineDrCamacho89
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: mushbaby]
    #6961166 - 05/24/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
Romantic love is beautiful, but usually has so much baggage attached that it's hard to enjoy.  At least for me, I have a tendency to be insecure.

The deepest, strongest, purest love I have ever known was when my children were born.  There's absolutely nothing on earth like it.  I can actually feel the love like a presence in our home.:heart:




Why is that?  Why do people feel a deeper love to someone that they can control or at least feel a stronger sense of control?  I feel our society has made it so difficult for one to truly experience love with another human being because we cannot accept the fact that a person had a life before us, and could have a life after if things go awry. 

With a child, a parent/child love will be there throughout their existence.  That is a deeper bond, but one in which I feel people ignore their spouses and themselves because the feelings aren't as strong.  It's sad really.  We place too much emphasis on our children.

Truly love someone who has not let anyone else truly love them before, regardless of baggage, and you will see what true love and happiness really is.

I also don't see why romantic love is conditional love.  On the rare times that I do give out my love, it is always unconditional.  Anything else would not be considered love in my opinion.


--------------------
"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip] * 1
    #6961244 - 05/24/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

(And FWG)

Love, the feeling, is excellent and magnificent.

Love, in practical application, involves all the weird personality stuff we've collected over our lifetime.

Infatuation is what we generally call "romantic love," and it lasts about six months, or until our brains become adjusted to the new chemical "soup" in which we're soaking them.  :grin:  Once this chemical high fades, the real relationship begins.  All our unresolved childhood issues come out to attempt resolution, all our odd little personality knick-knacks tumble off the shelves & need to be attended to and/or tossed out.

The "pure bliss" part is something that we can come back to, but only if we get out of our own way.  (Maybe the chemical infatuation helps with this initially. :shrug:)

The couples who "fail" did not necessarily have false love (the opposite of your definition of "true" love, which lasts forever and ever), but could not find a way around their personality clutter once the chemical high wore off.  This often happens, IMO, because couples neglect to become friends as well as lovers.  Once they start to encounter obstacles, they decide that they have "fallen out of love" or that they did not have "true love" in the first place.

Friends, on the other hand, can be honest and open with one another about the obstacles, and work cooperatively to the best of their abilities.  So-called romantic lovers are more likely to seek out the next "true" love, or be suddenly swept off their feet by an uncontrollable infatuation.  Then the cycle starts all over again, with the inevitable "falling out of love," disappointment, dishonesty, etc...

As I said, this is my POV, so your mileage may vary.  I'm quite a bit older than either of you, and have probably been through the "true love" cycle a few more times.  FWG is familiar with Ken Keyes' take on relationships, and what is possible within a partnership, so he may understand where I'm coming from on this one.

Of course the ideal is to have it all with one person, for the rest of your life.  This may or may not be possible.  I can't say that I've seen any examples of this ideal in application.  :shrug:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6961312 - 05/24/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Romantic love itself might be distinctive from unconditional love, in that not all unconditional love is romantic love, but I do not see romantic love as not being unconditional love.

You know, sort of like how a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. :smirk:

My point is that one can love someone unconditionally and also love them romantically. It is only one love, of course, simply that it has more characteristics than simply unconditional love.




That subject is the one that is closest to my heart :heartpump:
I guess that it can be quite a controversial subject because, like I stated earlier, people tend to see romantic love as being conditional love  mainly because the great number of examples that we see as failing couples.
I can only speak from the state I am feeling and experiencing at the present moment and by that I must say that romantic love, true romantic love is not conditional. :smile:
One who demands certain conditions in order to love will do that not only when it comes to romantic love, but with any other kind of relationship which are supposedly based on "love", since I am certain that those demands come from immaturity and the lack awareness, not from the implications of romantic love.

Infatuation = selfish (pursuing in using others for accomplishing the needs of the self)... thing which again doesn't apply only to romantic relationships. It is only necessary to look around and see how many relationships which don't have a romantic foundation are based on that principle.

Quote:

I think someone who is in romantic love with another is so immersed in the experience of being with each other that they are more aware of the nature of reality, as they are more fully experiencing it, and that they will naturally see their partner as the truly exist.




  :yesnod:  :heartpump:
Sharing & creating their own reality and being totally absorbed by the fullness of the situation :smirk:

Explaining love is the equivalent of explaining the true essence of one's self which by the nature of it is totally impossible but it can let others get a glimpse inside when others think and refer all these to his/hers true substance.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6961374 - 05/24/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I feel that its about finding an example of what it is in the first place. I too grew up with little love. I had an abusive father who was a shining example of what is wrong in the world today. Dude is all about money and alcohol to this day. When I found Christ, not necessarily Jesus cause I hadn't even read the bible, I learned what it was all about. Still... Hard to walk that path. Seems almost the path of most resistance due to my nature, conditioning, and upbringing. I wish I had a girl to walk with. The only person that I have ever loved dropped me like a hot rock when I went off the deep end after the TRUTH. Its almost like she was worried about what everybody else would think. Thanks Amber. You really know what its about. Sorry, I'm still learning.


--------------------

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OfflineDrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Male


Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6961422 - 05/24/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Sharing & creating their own reality and being totally absorbed by the fullness of the situation :smirk:





Beautifully put. :thumbup: I miss that so much and will continue to search a way to find that again...

Here is a video that I found that really applies to my current situation and I think can be appreciated by all of us romantics floating around out there...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KUVnKz_deUA


--------------------
"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6961473 - 05/24/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This often happens, IMO, because couples neglect to become friends as well as lovers. Once they start to encounter obstacles, they decide that they have "fallen out of love" or that they did not have "true love" in the first place.




That is exactly why I also said:

Quote:

They fail as a couple because it wasn't true love in the first place (and that is mainly because those people never got over some selfish issues they had, when they don't know their true selves, when they feel like they have something to hide from their partner)




This too includes the lack of a friendship between partners.
But who said that this applies to all cases of romantic love?
Is it a rule that romantically involved people can't be friends?
It might be true in some cases but not in all of them.
So why making a general statement concerning this kind of relationship when it obviously isn't something that happens all the time? :shrug:
It's like saying the air is somewhat poisonous JUST because the pollution from the cities (and in extent forgetting that we have fresh air in lots of places in nature).

Quote:

Friends, on the other hand, can be honest and open with one another about the obstacles, and work cooperatively to the best of their abilities. So-called romantic lovers are more likely to seek out the next "true" love, or be suddenly swept off their feet by an uncontrollable infatuation. Then the cycle starts all over again, with the inevitable "falling out of love," disappointment, dishonesty, etc...




To be honest I have tones of evidence that relationships based on friendship can be subject to lies, hypocrisy, dishonesty etc in the same proportion as romantic relationships... this is a fact that we can observe by just looking around and noticing how a part of the friendships and totally fucked up :shrug:
In fact, if I go deeper in that thought, I notice that while some lovers lie to each other in some cases only because they're afraid that that they might be judged or rejected (and by that I'm not sustaining that such a lie is permissible but is just that is has more "human" interpretation then the reasons why some friends lie to each other (again only in some cases) - like getting a better social label, inviting "important people" to cocktails etc... Again everything is relative and you can't say that only lovers lie to each other while friends don't... it is a proven and observable fact they do too.

Quote:

As I said, this is my POV, so your mileage may vary. I'm quite a bit older than either of you, and have probably been through the "true love" cycle a few more times. FWG is familiar with Ken Keyes' take on relationships, and what is possible within a partnership, so he may understand where I'm coming from on this one.




Invoking age and the fact that you have more experience is totally biased and irrelevant in this discussion since love is not a mental construct (in my opinion it comes from a deeper place then expectations and concepts even if sometimes it looks like it is mentally produced and this comes from the fact that as long as we have a mind we have the concept of love implemented there too) and one can't really tell how much quality of awareness and lessons gets from the quantity of experience and so on...
Love is not what we hear from others to be, what he see in movies or read in books. Love resides in one's personal and direct experience and I think that letting ourselves guided by a concept is a huge obstacle in actually finding true love.

Quote:

Of course the ideal is to have it all with one person, for the rest of your life. This may or may not be possible. I can't say that I've seen any examples of this ideal in application. :shrug:




There are always exceptions to the rule :smirk:
And yet again I'm trying to do the impossible and try to find new ways to express in words the complexity of love. And again it is not even close to what it really is but that won't stop me from doing it anyways :heartpump:

Love is when we feel/see/know that everything is in it's right place in this world, feeling which resides from the love that we feel and the awareness that we keep growing and that we perfectly fit in what seems to be this "chaotic" system... love makes one see the order in chaos. It is that constant state of :whoah: and :loveeyes: and :yinyang: that makes us tell the one we love I am so happy to have you in my life :heartpump:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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