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OfflineFractal5
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Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 92
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Help a newb Guitarist
    #6928079 - 05/17/07 01:24 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, so I picked up the guitar 5 years ago or so. Maybe longer. I was in middle school and bought a cheap ass used one so I could play Greenday with my buddy lol. Fun stuff. Anyways, Id memorize a tab every once in a while since then, but recently, in the last half year I have really tried to become a musician. Like learning scales, chords and what not.

Only problem is, and most people can relate, is that learning that shit is boring. So I try to do it in streaks. I learn a new scale or progression, or technique, sometimes a few all together, then maybe take a week or two to just jam and have fun before learning more.

Thats not a huge problem, I like to see results fast, but Im having fun, but at the same I am also a bit lost as to what order is best since I'm self teaching myself using the internet. Some sites have it kind of organized, but I dunno, there are some things that seem like a waste of time to memorize off the bat, etc. whatever.

To get to my main question, what order of things do you guys reccomend learning guitar and musical things in, in order to learn the most, but also keep it fun the whole time?

If it helps I am interested in blues; more electric blues like Hendrix and Vaughn. I know all the main chords, and can find all the notes on all the strings, but if it is one I dont use or think about often it can take a few seconds lol. I also know the main rock scale, and since I've looked at many a tabs I have noticed a lot of patterns and can jam pretty well using them, but dont really know why they are like that. Any help would be great, and as you can see I am pretty much at the beginning, so start there for advice.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Fractal5]
    #6928779 - 05/17/07 06:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Get a teacher!  Nothing else will help you put together those pieces better than a qualified instructor.  Check out a few... in my experience, 2 out of 3 suck.

Failing that, get a good book.  The Guitar Handbook, by Ralph Denyer, is a good one.  Go through in cover to cover, then do it again.  The second time is when it will click.

Good luck man

:rockon:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Fractal5]
    #6933054 - 05/18/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

a teacher will help tremendously. the internet is generally a poor substitute. go to a music shop and buy a guitar technique/theory book.

as for working on things on your own while making them fun, try this:

do a study out of a guitar theory book (like the one mentioned above), and then start noodling with that specific technique, mode, scale, whatever.

if you're doing scales, choose one and make a pretty melody.
if you're doing pick technique, make a cool rhythm combining the melody from a scale technique.
if you're doing chords, choose two in the same key and strum back and forth. try humming over top.

the point is, each lesson or few that you do, turn it into something usefully creative. don't put pressure on yourself for it to sound good. the point is that your putting new tech into use, which should be fun!

take your knowledge and make it expressive! even if it's bland now, the more lessons you learn and combine, the better you will become :smile:

be patient, results will compound themselves and you will get better more rapid. but as with learning anything, it's one step at a time.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.

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OfflineAaronEvil
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Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Fractal5]
    #6936432 - 05/18/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I shouldnt reccoment this site but I will because it does help new guitarists.

www.nextlevelguitar.com

My beef wih the site is that the guy has no personality. The price is good and if you are beginning there are some free lessons that will help you out. I dont benefit from the site but there are a lot of helpful people on the forums for the more advanced guitarists.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.

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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6939272 - 05/19/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

if u never had a teacher it would be helpful to go get some lessons, for a while. after they teach u how to learn and techniques to develop yourself quicker u can just help yourself if u are motivated.
anyways just do what you want. its an art, making music, it moves through you, like the universe. let it be created instead of forcing urself through boring parctices, create what u FEEL!
FEEL, FEEL
eat some mushies or something, and play.. even get drunk helps u u know
peace


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #6940420 - 05/19/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CerebralFlower said:
if u never had a teacher it would be helpful to go get some lessons, for a while. after they teach u how to learn and techniques to develop yourself quicker u can just help yourself if u are motivated.
anyways just do what you want. its an art, making music, it moves through you, like the universe. let it be created instead of forcing urself through boring parctices, create what u FEEL!
FEEL, FEEL
eat some mushies or something, and play.. even get drunk helps u u know
peace




:thumbup:

I love learning the scales, new chords, modes, ect... But it wasn't until I read a book Zen Guitar that I truely began to make music. Check it out. I bought a good used copy of amazon for $5/including shipping. It took my playing to the next level.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: daytripper05]
    #6940810 - 05/19/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed.





--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineFractal5
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Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 92
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #6945680 - 05/21/07 02:26 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the replies. a teacher at the moment probably wont work, although i will defenitaly keep it in mind for the near future. also i think i will grab a guitar book, since it seems like thats a good idea and the internet sucks lol.

i might go with the zen one cause ive heard of it before, but are there any others i just HAVE to check out?

btw, the worst part is that one day, such as today, i can pick up the guitar and play the first few notes of a song, then erupt into a wild jam that is just awesome, then the next day i cant make anything sound good lol. guess its just not giving up...

thanks for the help though, and i defenitaly try to just let it flow as much as possible and have it be an art, but that only works so well if you dont know anything haha

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Fractal5]
    #6946325 - 05/21/07 09:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Zen guitar is not an instructional guitar book, it just directs you toward the best attitudes for playing. Really fantastic, but it will not teach you a single note or lick.

As for learning the instrument, I can't recommend The Guitar Handbook - Ralph Denyer enough. It explains everything from guitar history, to theory, to guitar maintenance. Read each section (they're like 2 pages each), and post any questions you have either here or at the forums at www.harmony-central.com.

More importantly you need to learn whole songs. It will help your improvising immensely because you can internalize other people's techniques and voicings. Pick two songs you like, and just learn each guitar part. If you get bored of one song, jump to the other. once you have all the parts down, rehearse the song as if oyu were on stage. Play through the mistakes, don't just burst into a jam sesh. Noodling is the death of all practice sessions. Stop yourself whenever you start doing it. Save it for after practice.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineManianFH
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #6948013 - 05/21/07 04:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

download some easy guitar tracks, green day is good, nirvana, metallica, even shit you may not be totally into. Make sure the music is tuned to E. (or the same tuning your guitar is)

then while its playing, you try and play along with it, until you start to ntoice that youre hitting the right notes and shit, and begin to get better. its more fun this way :grin:

then when you get good enough to where you can learn song by listening to them, start learning more difficult songs through tab and by ear, and also make up your own songs.... This may take a while, you could be learning others shit for a good year or so, especially before trying to accurately attempt hendrix or vaughn..

record the shit you make up too... just keep the thing rollin in the backround.. :thumbup:


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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OfflineGonz
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: Australia
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: ManianFH]
    #6960817 - 05/24/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

What I would do in order to practise some practical skills is to find some really weird scale. Use a website like...

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php

Then write something with it, an interesting chord progression exploring low line melody, and then write it into a midi guitar program like PowerTab or GuitarPro, make it repeat over and over again and practise improvising solo techniques, melodies, train of thought chords, etc. This is what I did for a while (and still do occasionally with new and obscure scales and time signatures/rhytmic patterns) and it will really speed up the connection between mind and fingers. It will help you free the musical soul. Then ofcourse you expand on that original chord progression, write a fuller song, experiment with structure. Don't be bound by "rules" but don't ignore them either. Get a good solid foundation of technique and skills, and expand on them in a personal way to develop style and flavour.


--------------------
Bitch, i'm infinite.

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OfflineWScott
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Gonz]
    #6968655 - 05/26/07 08:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Bands usually make it big because their sound is original. Screw scales and TAB, just do your own thing. Expressing yourself directly is the best musical experience imo.


--------------------

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Invisibleeligal
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Posts: 7,021
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: WScott]
    #6972159 - 05/27/07 01:04 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Originality is a big factor but learning some theory or scales etc never hurt... If anything it just gives a much better understanding of music which allows you to express yourself in more ways...


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: eligal]
    #6972759 - 05/27/07 07:43 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldnt really consider knowing the scales and different chords theory. How they are applied is more the actual theory. Learning the major scale is all you essentially need to get on your feet. Start building chords on the scale, two strings at a time. Experiment. Once you think you "know" the major scale, you probably only know 1/100th of the different applications of it on the guitar, so keep practicing it, in different ways. Use your head. Trust me, stay the hell away from tableture. If you wanna learn songs learn to read sheet music, or figure them out yourself.

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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: eligal]
    #6972764 - 05/27/07 07:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, knowing the scales is SO important.
However, try to be innovative in the phrasing and I also agree, being able to play by ear is THE most valuable quality a guitarist can learn.


--------------------
:whatwhat:

There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #6972890 - 05/27/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with what most people have said here, but i would contend that learning a bunch of different scales isnt very helpful. learn one scale at a time, and dedicate at least a year to it. Im not gonna explain exacty why, but just learning the major scale is essentially learning 7 different scales once you know what your doing. So, The major scale, and the pentatonic scale. Thats all you should need for YEARS, concerning scales. Just dont dilute yourself and think that you know it once you can play it. There is so much more to it than that. A book, teacher, or even a website can point you in the right direction in how to really utilize scales.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: daytripper23]
    #6972933 - 05/27/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
I agree with what most people have said here, but i would contend that learning a bunch of different scales isnt very helpful. learn one scale at a time, and dedicate at least a year to it. Im not gonna explain exacty why, but just learning the major scale is essentially learning 7 different scales once you know what your doing. So, The major scale, and the pentatonic scale. Thats all you should need for YEARS, concerning scales. Just dont dilute yourself and think that you know it once you can play it. There is so much more to it than that. A book, teacher, or even a website can point you in the right direction in how to really utilize scales.




I agree. I think it makes sense to focus 75% of your time spent on scales on the Major scale and its modes. The major scale (even if you never really use it for improvising) is like the 'home,' from which all the other scales (and chords) are derived. The best way to understand different scales is how they relate to the major scale.

For example, rather than thinking of Dorian mode as "a major scale but starting on the second note", think of it as "a major scale with a flat 3rd and a flat 7th." That way you can modify familiar major scale patterns to play in the modes, without having to move the root around in that scale pattern. You also get to see clearly what notes it is that make it sound "dorian" (in this case it's that flat third and flat seventh.)

As for the other 25%, the pentatonic scales are important (but probably overused), as well as the harmonic minor. For improvising, I find arpeggios much more useful than scales. Scales are overrated for that purpose. Arpeggios are smoother and more sophisticated sounding, and there are fewer (if any) notes that just don't sound right over the chord.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Help a newb Guitarist [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #6974258 - 05/27/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I agree on the approach to scales. I don't limit myself to scales anymore tho and it opens my phrasing a lot, but you gotta spend a lot of years playing and combining scales to do that in the first place.

As someone wiser than me once said, just tune up and play the damn thing, everything else will come in time.


--------------------
:whatwhat:

There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!

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