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 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
 
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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 Spanish Inquisition 
#6897730 - 05/10/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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One of the most sadistic cardinals in the 1400s was canonized as a saint for his 'good works' in torturing and killing heretics (mostly Jews who were forced to convert).
Apparently the Catholic Church at that time failed to grok even 0.1% of Christ's teachings of love and compassion. But then again, the human mind can rationalize any atrocity and feel good about doing it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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So really, have we progressed? Or just become more subtle.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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 Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Icelander]
#6898114 - 05/10/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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i think we're still in the same circle.
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The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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 MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Cracka_X]
#6898210 - 05/10/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cracka_X said:
i think we're still in the same circle.
Exactly.
One doesn't the other 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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I have been hiding my jewishness and practicing spanish forever
it sucks
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 _  🧠_ 
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Like a Jew in ancient Spain
Before Christ's name did pay with pain
Modern day Inquisition
What is the link between these crafts?
Doctors and thieves they both wear masks
Overpaid meat magicians
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I have been hiding my jewishness and practicing spanish forever
it sucks
Every time we have to hide something it sucks... until we're tired of hiding 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: 
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I'm ok with the Spanish inquisition, because we got a really sweat Monty Python song out of it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Icelander]
#6898745 - 05/10/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So really, have we progressed? Or just become more subtle.
Not much progress. Today we have the 'Cannabis Smokers & Mushroom Takers Inquisition'. In some cases the powers-that-be still confiscate your wealth, cast one as a pariah and put one in prison.
Future generations will likely see this time period as ignorant and barbaric.
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spiritualemerg
Stranger
Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
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...To make matters worse, the Reverend Henricus Institores then succeeded in obtaining a Papal Bull, titled Summis Desiderantes Affectibus (33), from the newly-elected Pope Innocent VIII in Rome. Dated December 9th. 1484, this document lent the enormous politico-religious clout of the Vatican's imprimatur to an organised attempt to suppress these visionary experiences by giving the Holy Inquisition against so-called "witches" an energising power and an authority which it had never enjoyed before. People got their metaphors mixed up and mistook the inner for the outer and the outer for the inner. Not only was it declared a mortal sin for witches to "fly" through the sky with the Pagan Goddess Diana (in the external sense of flying), it was also a heresy – punishable by torture and death – not to believe that witches really flew!
The dream had become real. People became hysterical. The book received an Official Letter of Approbation from the Faculty of Theology at the University of Köln in 1487, and was immediately followed by a series of excommunications, including that of the great Florentine humanist Pico della Mirandola, the first Christian philosopher to profess the universality of all religions. The Vatican appointed a notorious Spanish sadist, Tomás de Torquemada, to the post of Grand Inquisitor.
The Malleus Maleficarum became the official textbook of the campaign, and was a best-seller for the next two hundred years. It was republished in thirteen editions up to 1520, followed by sixteen more between 1574 and 1669.
Read symbolically, this hallucinated loss of the male procreative member was, of course, a perfectly apt metaphor for the apprehension which might be felt at the level of the collective unconscious regarding the possible consequences of man's impending technological take-over of natural creation. Lacking the very shamanic expertise which they were now seeking to exterminate, all the hallucinating priests of the Church of Rome could do was gape in terror between their legs, declare their feared castration to be the work of She-Devils, and set out on a great crusade against these hallucinated Hordes of Satan. For this purpose, the Church unleashed the Dominican Order (nick-named Domini Canis, i.e. the Hound of God) to persecute the heresy, and trained its recruits with special techniques to track down and torture its victims with an obscene array of devices designed to induce the most abominable agonies imaginable (34).
Mystics, midwives, medicine-women, herbalists, healers, moon-worshipers, virgins, and simple-minded girls – along with the occasional troublesome mistress and mother-in-law – were rounded up by the thousands, and brought to the Inquisitor in chains. But it didn't stop there. Children, too, were killed. At Würtzburg the child victims included boys of ten and eleven, two twelve-year old choirboys, "a boy of twelve years old in one of the lower forms of the school, the two young sons of the Prince's cook, the eldest fourteen, the younger twelve years old, and several pages and seminarists." An unknown number of girls were also condemned, including "a child of nine years old and her little sister." Our little best-seller includes a list of titillating techniques with which to reveal the true allegiance of these women and children by forced "confession" under torture, prior to being burned alive at the stake.
It should be emphasised that the extraordinary cruelty which the Church used in this crusade against women must rank amongst the most bloodthirsty spectacles in all recorded history, outstripping even the Nazi holocaust in its exhibition of brutality. At least the Nazis felt enough shame that they concealed their atrocities from public scrutiny behind the barbed wire fences of remote concentration camps. This Christian holocaust however, was carried out in public, across the town squares of Europe, before the eyes and ears of the assembled citizens who were exhorted to attend. Having first stripped, starved, beaten, tortured and no doubt sexually molested their prey for days on end, our holy fathers then staged the sort of Kafkaesque trials in which the guilt of the accused is a foregone conclusion. The recent ancestors of present-day Americans and Europeans then burned alive an estimated six hundred thousand to two million women between 1350 and 1750, like so much meat on a grill (35). In the very proper city of Geneva, for example, the archives show that three hundred women were once roasted on a single day. In 1514 three hundred people were burned alive at Como. More than six thousand were burned in the Diocese of Strasburg between 1615 and 1635 (36). And according to Bartholomew de Spina, a thousand people were put to death each year – for twenty five years – in Lombardy (37). In Germany one woman was tortured not once but fifty-six times. The Church, of course, did not restrict this practice to Europe, but inflicted its terror also upon the Indigenous Peoples in the colonies, especially in the Americans and Africa.(38) One has to ask who really was "possessed by the Devil?"
The fact that this ethnic cleansing of the Old Religion has all been conveniently forgotten only goes to show how much we are still suffering from its psychological consequences. The Church has, as far as I know, has never really admitted its mistake, apologised, or restituted the lands, buildings, and other properties that were confiscated to the families of the victims.
From a psychological viewpoint, it is important to bear in mind that this mass brutality was carried out by human beings so unaware of their own motives that they could hypocritically justify this final solution as a pure and holy act, performed in the service of God, with the complete sanction of a religion whose official mottoes were to "Love thy neighbour" and "Do as you would be done by!" Such insane violence is a classical example of what can happen all too easily when a culture which has lost touch with its psychological roots suddenly experiences a flurry of visionary states. People take the visions literally, panic, and all Hell breaks loose.
So along with our technological and scientific lust to dominate external nature, came a corresponding attempt to achieve control over the mysterious motions of the Self within. R.D.Laing, who had a particular interest in family history, pointed out that this Inquisition took place a mere 18 generations back. Humankind goes back about 100,000 generations before that, during which time the taboo against non-ordinary states of consciousness did not exist. So in terms of family history (and therefore of the collective unconscious), it is a very recent phenomenon indeed. As we know from psychological studies of Jewish survivors of the Holocaust (39), the psychological reverberations of such social catastrophes linger deep in the psyche, long after the events themselves and their protagonists have passed away. There can be little doubt that the pathological terror of non-ordinary states of consciousness which exploded during the Inquisition still echoes somewhere in the subterranean caverns of our collective unconscious. After all, most western people are still easily upset by any perturbation which they cannot control – and terrified if it should arise within their own head! Let us not forget that it took an eccentric Viennese Jew like Sigmund Freud to reintroduce the mere concept of the unconscious into Western culture, a rare Swiss visionary like Carl Jung to strip it of its negative associations, and a gadfly Irish-American Harvard Professor like Timothy Leary (40) – armed with seventeen million doses of the psychedelic drug LSD – to re-establish visionary experience as a subject for dinner-party conversation four hundred years later.
Source: When The Dream Becomes Real
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~ Kindness is cheap. It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.
Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Future generations will likely see this time period as ignorant and barbaric.
I certainly hope so.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
our holy fathers then staged the sort of Kafkaesque trials in which the guilt of the accused is a foregone conclusion
Thanks for the history lesson, but don't bring me into it!
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,043
Last seen: 2 hours, 1 minute
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Wasn't the Spanish Inquisition initiated and under the control of the Spanish monarchy?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: falcon]
#6899247 - 05/10/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Catholic Church and the monarchies of Europe ruled hand-in-hand for many centuries; it was a symbiotic relationship and permission of both was generally needed for such extreme measures.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Icelander]
#6899799 - 05/10/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So really, have we progressed? Or just become more subtle.
How are the two different? I would say a shift from outright diabolical evil to more subtle evil is progress, even if we a long way to go.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Silversoul]
#6899835 - 05/10/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, its much better when diabolical evil is more subtle and unknown. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
 
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Spanish Inquisition [Re: Silversoul]
#6902211 - 05/11/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
So really, have we progressed? Or just become more subtle.
How are the two different?
One is up front and obvious and the other is unseen and lying, and caters to peoples wishes to pretend and still go about their business.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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