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InvisiblefahtsterM
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homemade lids for drying out cultures for storage * 14
    #6886717 - 05/07/07 09:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

UPDATE FALL 2023:  I’ve revamped these lids slightly.. since I made them I’ve wanted to come up with a way to get rid of the tape on the tyvek filter on top (see original lid construction below).  Last spring I wanted to start making a bunch of blank grain jars ahead of time so I could just grab one when I needed it but they tend to dry out so I wrapped the entire jar in syran wrap… turns out this was a bad idea because the adhesive from the painters tape will grow mold if it’s completely shut off from GE and it’s moist (the wet grains cause moisture to come up through the filter).  Since I never wrapped my jars before last spring, the tape wasn’t a problem so to speak… pulling the tape off the tyvek can pull some of the tyvek fibers with it but since there’s three layers, it didn’t affect the effectiveness of the filter, but still.. it’d be nice not to have that happen.  So, I finally came up with a solution to get rid of the tape on the filter.

The fix:
Everything is the same up until the very end.  After I apply the top and bottom silicone SHIP’s, I remove the strip of painters tape I put on the top (before the silicone dries).  This keeps the SHIP edge nice and clean and helps keep the rest of the filter from getting silicone on it when I make the top SHIP.  Here’s a pic of what the lid looks like when I’m done



I actually went back to black duct tape for attaching the outside tyvek to the lid band… the adhesive is stronger but isn’t on the filter side at all so even if that got moldy somehow, it won’t affect the filter at all.  And since there’s no tape at all on the filter, I gain filter exposure for when I want to dry the colonized grains out so they dry out faster.

Now, for keeping the filter closed up so the grains don’t dry out while they’re colonizing, simply put a piece of syran wrap over the top of the whole jar lid and secure it to the lid band with a rubber band.  For GE, I poke one little hole in the center with a 16g syringe needle (do this before you attach the syran wrap to the band so you don’t accidentally poke through the tyvek filter).  Obviously you can trim off any extra syran wrap after rubber banding it to the lid.



Pretty simple.. this actually helps keep dust and such off the filter and SHIP while it colonizes… in this pic you can see all the dust particles sitting on the syran wrap.  You can also see the tiny needle hole



Then after colonization and you want to dry the grains out, simply remove the syran wrap

I also do my quart lids the same now but the hole is slightly bigger than a needle hole.

I know this may seem like a lot to some of you but these lids are extremely important to my methods as it allows me to dry my cultures out while they remain clean and do it in a timely manner for long term storage.

Update 2021: I’ve been using these jars still and the only things I’ve improved on are that I don’t use corn anymore, I use smaller grains like rye (preferred) or wheat.  The other thing is that I use blue painters tape instead of duct tape otherwise the lids have stayed the same all these years later.. facking love them.  I’ve made and used 100+.. they’ve been pivotal to all my success

Here’s what they look like in 2021:


Here’s a dried out pea+ f1 clone that fruited great after being dried for 3 months (fruited 1 qt to 2 qts CV in a ziplock)


Same with spawn jars.. I use the painters tape.. it can take going through the pc better than duct tape:


Now here’s the original tek:

I've been meaning to post this over here for awhile now... I have a couple teks here that require these lids so it's only proper that I post how they are made. :wink:

Quote:

Here is a quick look at how I prepare my grain spawn lids

These are made with the same layering as the master jar lids described below vvv... three layers of tyvek.. two postal
(one on bottom and one on top), and one kite tyvek layer in the middle. I do the same thing for these up to putting the tape on the top... you can see that I just put tape on each side and leave a strip down the middle. Then I smear that strip with silicone to embed it in the tyvek, BUT I leave a small spot that I don't put any silicone on at all.. it's about the size of the tip of my finger that is covering the tyvek in this pic..



I leave that little area free of silicone.. thats the FAE.. Then I just put an 1/8 inch layer of silicone on each side and smooth out with a wet finger... I probably over do it with the ports, but I love my space.. I can get about 10 uses out of each lid. The other thing with these is that I don't put the 2nd port underneath on the inside of the lid like I do with those master jars. One probably could but I don't think it's necessary for these grain jars. for the master culture, yes.

The other reason I like tyvek lids is that not only do they create a seal on that upper 1/8 inch rim of the jar, but since there is tyvek between the jar threads and band threads, there is a seal created there also.





This is a tek on making a lid that i've used for over a year now. it incorporates two kinds of tyvek... the kite makers tyvek  (single piece in center) and tyvek  envelopes (two outer pieces... top and bottom). it has TWO self-healing inoc. ports; one on the top layer and one on the bottom layer that goes inside the jar. the ports are positioned right on top of each other. So, for anything to get inside you jar, it would have to get thru three layers of tyvek  and two inoc ports. It's damn safe. The best part is that the filter is controllable from 40% covered to 100% covered. just by putting tape over how much you want to allow. heres how to do it:

Get these materials:
-duct tape
-4oz jelly jar with just the band (no lid part needed)
-tyvek  envelopes (this is paper like tyvek , where the kite makers is more clothlike... the kite makers is more quality but lacks in durability. it tends to twist when pressure is applied to the lid when you screw it on and off; but if you have two layers of post tyvek , it's rigid enough that it screws on and off like a regular plastic lid. )
-kite makers tyvek  (if you don't have this, it's ok... just use the two envelopes or put a third piece of the envelope kind in place of the kite makers)
-scissors
-Aquarium silicone

1. gather materials..



2. prepare your lid band by flipping the band over and taking a pliers and flattening that ridge on the inside of the band... this ridge, if not flattened, will cut into your tyvek  if you screw the band on too tight...



take your three pieces of tyvek  (postal on top, kite in middle, postal on bottom) and stretch it over the opening to the jelly jar... try to get it as flat with no wrinkles as possible.



3. Screw the lid band over the stretched tyvek... should be tight like a drum now...



4. Now cut all the extra tyvek  all around the jar except for an 1/8 inch flap all around...



5. take about 2.5 inches of duct tape...



and tear it in half...



we're going to use one half for attaching the top layer of tyvek  to the lid band and the other half to tape the 1/8 inch flap back onto the lid band

6. put the one half of tape on the top down the center of the lid...



I start in the middle and firmly push the tape into the tyvek  moving towards the inner edge of the lid band... this makes it so there isn 't a gap in the tape where the inner edge and tyvek  meet. do that on both sides...



7. Now we're going to use that other half of the tape to tape that flap back up onto the lid band. do this by tearing the tape into smaller pieces like so...



heres the lid so far..



8. now take your lid and aquarium silicone and we're going to make the inoc. ports. might want to get some paper towel.  this is what
the silicone looks like...



9. Now we need to embed the silicone into the tyvek... if we just spread the silicone out on the tyvek  without embedding it, air would get
trapped and the silicone wouldn't have the seal it should have. I do this by smearing a dab of silicone on ONE side of the tyvek  on either side of the tape. the other side is going to be our air filter.





10. Now you can put enough silicone on the tyvek  that you already smeared on to make at least an 1/8 inch thick inoc. port.. use something wet (i just use a really wet finger) and spread the silicone out so that it's even...





11. Now, carefully (watch out for the wet silicone on top) flip over the lid and smear silicone just like you did on top in the same spot under the inoc port on top on the bottom layer of tyvek . (so the needle goes thru both where ever to you poke it thru the top port) Do the same as you did on the top and put a 1/8 inch thick port on the bottom layer. BUT make sure you leave an 1/8 inch gap between the edge of the inside lid and the silicone. thats where the jar rim goes... keep this part free of silicone as much as possible.... the pic is kinda hard to see but it's there (silicone is clear. lol)



heres a better pic...



Now let this dry for 1.5 days and it is done.  you can reuse these many many times... they are meant to be used with master clone  tissue grown on grain to preserve and extend an isolate like in this link... (there is actually a brief description of these lids in this tek link)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6590986/an/0/page/1

This is how I use them to extend myc. isolates.

Once I have a colonized 'faht jar' that i got from using the clone  tek in that above link, I can do one of two things... use this myc right away to inoc jars or I can dry the grain (corn) out for later use. It's really easy to dry the jars out... just remove the tape from over the tyvek  side on the lid... they'll dry out in two days. heres what the taped and untaped filter sides look like... (notice how there is just a sliver of tyvek  showing on that taped one... thats so the jar isn't completely sealed up, which invites bacteria, but not enough of the tyvek  is uncovered to let the small amount of grain dry out before it's colonized.)



so after I have a colonized faht jar, (dry or not) I'm going to PC  a syringe full of water with the tip submerged in water in a qt jar and PC a jelly jar with lid and 40 ml of just water for 40 mins at 15 psi. (make sure you don't PC  your master jar. lol)



**NOTE** this is very similar to what Agar wrote up in this thread except hes doing it on a larger scale, but it's the same process... the upside to using these lids is that you can control the filter size with tape to allow these jars to be dried out and stored at room temps. :smile:  heres Agar's thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6817701/an/0/page/0

Take the colonized master jar and tap it against your hand to break the kernels up... it shouldn't take much.
Now take the now sterile cool syringe and flame the tip... wipe the inoc port on the master jar with an alcohol soaked paper towel and
inject the syringe full of water into the master jar....



remove the syringe and gently shake and swoosh the kernels around in the water to knock the myc off into the water. heres the water in the jar...



water after swooshing for a couple minutes (try not to shake water onto the tyvek  on the inside of the lid... no need to shake it that hard really... it'll take a second if your kernels are dry before the myc attached to them starts breaking off into the water, needs to soak for a minute)....



now flame your needle and wipe the inoc port again and retrieve the myc water... you will only get about 5 - 6 ml of water back from your 10 as some water gets stuck to the kernels and just doesn't come out. but thats normal. heres the myc slurry... it's suuuuuper thick but extremely finely shreaded.





now take that 6 ml of myc and transfer it to that other jelly jar with the 40ml of water in it and you have a jar of 45ml myc water that you can draw from to do your jar inocs.

Update 2021: don’t rehydrate them to reuse.. over the years I’ve found that just using them once is the best route.. they tend to get bacterial (possibly from the injection port) when you rehydrate and try to keep growing and harvesting the myc.  It definitely works but I’d say about 40% of the time they get bacterial and that’s too high for me.  BUT I do spawn the spent grains to CV in tall 1/2 pints and grow those grains out which is great for testing new clones etc… here’s some grown out:


I use a little water tub set up you can see Here for fruiting the tester tall 1/2 pints

UPDATE 2022: I’ve actually had success reusing them with the use of the Steam pen.. the problem was that an iso wiped SHIP is risky when reusing but with the SP, that factor is eliminated.  This tubs grains were inoculated with a regrown 4oz grain jar (the grains were actually also recooked bacterial grains as well)



End of update

and even better yet... you can retape the filter on the faht jars that you used when the grain was hydrated and the myc will start growing back to be used again. AND if you use a dry faht jar, you can also REHYDRATE and use again... just add 10ml of sterile water via syringe to your dry faht jar and the corn will reabsorb the water. the myc. will come back out of 'hibernation" and start colonizing the rehydrated grain... this is a jar of PESA's that i just used again after like 6 or 7 months maybe... it was dry but then i harvested the myc and rehydrated the corn and it plumped back up and its white as ever!!



basically I can take any one of these isolates...



and, in one PC'ing and round of inocs, make enough pure cultures that can be hydrated and dried out at will and can be stored at room
temp in a drawer somewhere to last me well over a year.



I haven't had a single problem with these lids since i started making them.
And, this is just one design... you can accomplish just about any criteria with tyvek , tape, a lid band and silicon... it's fun to play around with. The main thing with these lids is the three layers of tyvek , the two inoc ports on top and bottom, and the filter control. hope this helps others like it does me.

fahtster

Edited by fahtster (11/04/23 08:34 AM)

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OfflineRemanifest
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fahtster]
    #7773263 - 12/18/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Goddamn dude... thank you!

Don't know what else to say :smile:  I look forward to using these lids in the future :laugh:


--------------------
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Radiate, recognize one silent call
As we all form one dark flame...

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: Remanifest]
    #7773282 - 12/18/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's funny nobody commented on this thread when it was new. Some pretty good ideas here.
RR


--------------------
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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7773532 - 12/18/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

im going to guess those jars are not pressure cooked since that silicone would not handle the high temps. am i correct? is it just for getting ghetto LC? i suppose you can substitute RTV high temp silicone for say a pressure-cook able variety for making karo or honey LC?


--------------------
Cheers,

bzl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.

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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: bryanbzl]
    #7773811 - 12/18/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I use that kind of silicone and it doesnt seem to cause a problem in the pressure cooker. I use it on my injection ports for my LC's

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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7773892 - 12/18/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thanks you Digital Reality, i was unsure of its use in the pressure cooker.


--------------------
Cheers,

bzl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: bryanbzl] * 1
    #7773950 - 12/18/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Plain ol' clear silicone will withstand pressure cooker temperatures. The high temp rtv is for use on car engines and other applications with extreme heat.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7774010 - 12/18/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ohhhhh... ok. thanks for the clarification.


--------------------
Cheers,

bzl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.

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Invisiblethedefone
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: bryanbzl]
    #7775439 - 12/18/07 08:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wow.


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InvisibleCrake
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: thedefone]
    #7775468 - 12/18/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've been pulling for you fahtster. I've been linking the living hell out of this post and have been trying to get it in the limelight for about a month. If I didn't thank you heavily for this yet... THANK YOU HEAVILY! :tongue2:


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.

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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: Crake]
    #7778140 - 12/19/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hehe... thanks yo, loving the great vibes!  thanks everyone else too. :smile:  yeah, that silicone works great in the pc. :thumbup:

fahtster

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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fahtster]
    #7778146 - 12/19/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

sweet... im doing to try it asap. going to rip up a large quantity of my secret brazilian ninja LC.


--------------------
Cheers,

bzl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.

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InvisibleCrake
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: bryanbzl]
    #7780330 - 12/20/07 02:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

GET BACK UP THERE!!!!!! BBBBBUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMP you very much!:D


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.

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Invisiblestinkbuttdog
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: Crake]
    #7780405 - 12/20/07 04:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown::yesnod::bow::bowdown:

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OfflinekingboomerDiscord
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fahtster]
    #7885263 - 01/15/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Looks great! I'm looking foreward to trying these on my next project.


-Kingboomer


--------------------
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take me to heaven..
window in time/
through it I'll fly...

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OfflineSamurai_Jim
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: kingboomer]
    #7885615 - 01/15/08 08:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

WOW!, Just WOW!.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: Samurai_Jim]
    #7886569 - 01/15/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Lot's of praise here... But what exactly is the point of making these lids?

I'm guessing it has something to do with drying out your myc?

Sorry if I asked you before, but I forgot if you answered or what you said.


-FF

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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fastfred]
    #7886939 - 01/16/08 12:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

well.. the point is that I can store myc for upwards of a year and half in a kitchen drawer.  drying the myc out keeps it in a state that is "young", if you dry the myc out before it reaches the knotting stage, I believe it keeps the myc from deteriorating.. check out my penis envy thread.. that clone is about 1.5 years old and was dried out for about that long without refrigeration.  the small amount of water that is retained by the grain keeps the myc from going fossil dry and if you add water about every six months and let it reabsorb the water, reactivates the myc, again, keeping it from going fossil dry.  the lids are nice due to the amount of protection they give as there isn't any unsealed hole in the lid... and you can dry the myc out because about 40 % of the tyvek lid can be exposed to air.  BUT if you want to use, say, a 95 % covered lid, all you need to do is put a piece of tape over the tyvek to cover it up.  Not to mention, you can get all the materials at a hardware store and do it yourself.. plastic lids are inferior imo due to the fact that, unless you use some kind of gasket, you only get protection at the lid "ring" (that top 1/8 inch ring on the very top of the jar), but if you use tyvek, you get a seal the entire length of the jar threads since there is tyvek sandwiched between the jar threads and the lid threads... I think lots of peeps over look that fact about tyvek lids. :thumbup:  I'm glad you asked. :smile:

fahtster

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fahtster]
    #7887004 - 01/16/08 01:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting... Storing myc dried out.

Assuming that you dried the myc to a nearly dry state, enough to stop any growth, and then sealed it up, how long do you think it would be viable for?

I once asked my myc professor if freeze dried specimens could somehow be returned to a living state and he really waffled on the question for awhile until I pretended I understood and that my question had been answered.


-FF

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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: homemade lids that have stood the test of time. [Re: fastfred]
    #7887011 - 01/16/08 01:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

well if you can do it without crystalizing the water and busting the cell walls, you're golden.. and flash freezing as with liquid nitrogen could possibly do it, but thats beyond my knowledge.

fahtster

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