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OfflineSterile
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Psychiatry the fraud
    #6885468 - 05/07/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

[url=
youtube.com/watch?v=EwP2PP8CU0Y&mode=related&search=[/url]

[url=
youtube.com/watch?v=-P6_FwpVo_s&mode=related&search=[/url]

:albundy:


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek



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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Sterile]
    #6885697 - 05/07/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

yep.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Sterile]
    #6885815 - 05/07/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I have been saying this on these boards since I got here.

I thought the most interesting point about the first link was that the expirement had gotten out of hand, because they couldn't leave, and eventually had to tell the psychiatrists "Yes, you are right, You have cured me".

Also the second link envelopes my entire stance on psychiatry.

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InvisibleClean
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Clean]
    #6885863 - 05/07/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

this is a nearly 2 hour documentary on the subject

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Offlinekotik
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Clean]
    #6886079 - 05/07/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

that video was also produced by the Church of Scientology. Nothing against the documentary itself, because I tend to agree with many of the points... but just keep it in perspective


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Sterile]
    #6886116 - 05/07/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Nice vids, & I'll check that torrent later.

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Sterile]
    #6886767 - 05/07/07 09:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Really like that first video, here's some more


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQveNlsSCuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZXH7MOwjI - 10.41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b30iwhEw9ho - 4.25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sstoa406Oa0 - 6.46

the first deals talks about ADHD, the second psychiatry, and the third antidepressants.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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OfflineKickleM
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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,947
Last seen: 5 hours, 15 minutes
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: elbisivni]
    #6887148 - 05/07/07 10:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So, the argument is that people are inherantly evil? We diagnose schizophrenics because we want to control them?

Hmm.. I'm not so sure I agree with that. My uncle is schizophrenic, and quite often he will call my mother to say his goodbyes because he believes he will die on (insert date here). Humans have to interact. We can not live this nice, isolated life. When a person with schizophrenia is afraid of others, it is very difficult for them to operate.

Our options are limited in such situations. If we have a drug that can bring them closer to 'normal', why shouldn't we put it into use? We should allow what is to happen, to happen? We don't do that with anything else, so why is this the exception?

I don't know if I can buy the psychiatry doesn't do anything argument.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6887266 - 05/07/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I lean toward neither pole. I believe mental illnesses exist and that they can occasionally be treated effectively with drugs but that the field of psychiatry, including methods of diagnosis and treatment, are inherently flawed or unsoundly based.

We are too quick to label ourselves or others with mental illness of whatever flavor, and accept or offer treatment in a form I feel is often unnecessary. The interests of pharmaceutical companies is great and I can not help but be suspicious, but I make no claim that they are entirely useless greedy soma manipulating drug pushing bastards.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: elbisivni]
    #6887313 - 05/07/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I probably lean closer to the psychiatry sucks end of the spectrum, but I am no where near some of these videos. Such an extreme view on either side isn't a good thing (IMO).


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6887417 - 05/07/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, unfortunately you only tend to hear from those whose views are extreme enough to place them firmly on one end of the spectrum. Or, at least, they're often the only ones given airtime on television, 'publication' on youtube, reporting of in newspapers, etc.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6887440 - 05/08/07 12:02 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

We all should have the common sense to know that all mental health dysfunctions are from a lack of pills.

If you are sad it is because you have gone your entire life without taking zoloft. Not because you have given your center away to a girl who doesn't like you and need your mind's ass kicked until it creates better perceptions of reality... nope, it's because you never took enough drugs and need to start popping those pills down.

This is the evil face of psychiatry, a drug dealer..... and he doesn't even let you get a good buzz, but the all the negative effects are there

We have stockholme's syndrome you know? We let our kidnappers make us feel bad then ask them to play doctor for us

it's pretty silly

but there is a good and fantastic side to mental health

i just think it rather obsolete and a dinosaur and bureaucrat and a useless middle man, that there are better ways to heal

and i'm a psychology major.

i will say psychology is a completely valid science, it is just that the science will go whatever direction pressures desire for it to go

and if the numbers show that pills make people feel a bit better then that will be done, even if all common sense and reason dictates that there are better ways, if the better ways aren't part of the cash flow, part of the political flow, they aren't going to be implemented as much

it becomes a poisonous dogma


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (05/08/07 12:04 AM)

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InvisibleClean
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Posts: 2,374
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6887458 - 05/08/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
So, the argument is that people are inherently evil? We diagnose schizophrenics because we want to control them?





I don't think that's quite the argument. No one said all humans are inherently evil. Some might believe that, but I don't. I do believe that those who are profiting from the psychiatric drug industry are pulling one over on us. They would rather we're kept in the dark about the real causes of schizophrenia and other conditions, as well as cures that are purely psychological, no drugs needed. I've held this belief long before I saw any of these videos, so the testimonies therein only strengthens it.

This is about the power of the mind.

The whole psychiatric scheme, the way it is set up, strips us of our power over our own minds, and fills that void with literal poison. They tell us we have a disease even though it can't be biologically proven. As it is said in the youtube videos by psychiatrists themselves, there is not one biological test in existence that can totally confirm a "chemical imbalance" or "personality disorder".

They (the profiteers) rely heavily on the authority that we give people with 'PhD' after their name, and groups like the American Psychiatric Association. These so called doctors have us convinced that we can't personally do anything to rectify a problem rooted in our own consciousness without the help of big daddy and his little pill.

In many cases there may not be any sort of physical problem with the patient's brain, but rather their condition could be an affliction of consciousness which could be the result of many different social factors, and the individual's internal mechanisms of coping with their experiences.

There is no "normal". The drug industry would not exist if we all understood that.

Quote:

My uncle is schizophrenic, and quite often he will call my mother to say his goodbyes because he believes he will die on (insert date here). Humans have to interact. We can not live this nice, isolated life. When a person with schizophrenia is afraid of others, it is very difficult for them to operate.

Our options are limited in such situations. If we have a drug that can bring them closer to 'normal', why shouldn't we put it into use? We should allow what is to happen, to happen? We don't do that with anything else, so why is this the exception?





If there is to be any, the answers to conditions that greatly effect the lives of individuals and their families will come when we find the source of the problems.

Instead of doing that, we're treating the symptoms in an incredibly detrimental way. Ever look at the list of side effects for a psychiatric drug? And somehow these are supposed to be good for us?

I believe that conditions such as those put under the label "schizophrenia" are primarily psychological symptoms of the 'schizoid' society that we live in.

Would you agree that life is filed with little axioms where the punch line is "..you may not like it, but that's the way it is." ? Do you not notice all the contradictory messages we are bombarded with from day one of life?

I'll use war as one example.
We "fix problems" by destroying. That's like saying "I'm going to fix my bike today" and then running it through a trash compactor.
Save the forest - Use toilet paper
If you put your mind to it you can think of hundreds of examples which illustrate the conflicted state of our psyche. In my opinion, going through life just blindly accepting these contradictions takes a heavy toll on consciousness.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Clean]
    #6887596 - 05/08/07 12:36 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If someone knows the 'real' reason for schizophernia, I would absolutely love to hear it. I don't deny that there is much that we need to learn. But I also do not deny that at this point in time, I, nor anyone I know, has any better alternative for such a maladaptive trait than drugs. I can not believe that people go through years of schooling with the idea in their head that "hey, let's give people a ton of pills because I can make money off of it." Nor do I think that pills were originally created with this thought in mind. To me, they were created with good intentions, and money got thrown into the mix. That doesn't make the pills themselves evil, but perhaps out of control.

To me, psychologists are the other end of this pendulum. They are looking for the ties between experience and interpretation. The two have to work together. Psychotherapy by itself can be a very time consuming process, and very expensive process. People in general don't have the time nor money for this. Where else are they to turn?

The side effects of the drugs are made well known for a reason. It is your choice whether you feel that these horrible side effects are less horrible than your current condition. And with the percentage of people taking them, it must be a truly horrible condition, wouldn't you agree? The lesser of two evils, in a way.

And no, my life isn't really filled with "you may not like it, but that's the way it is." I am free to think and feel any way that I please. If I were chronically depressed, I would still have the choice of whether or not I wanted to go the meds approach. No one is shoving them down my throat. Blaming a psychiatrist for not finding out the true source, when they are trying as best as they can via biology, isn't the place to blame for peoples willful ignorance.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Anonymous #1

Re: Psychiatry the fraud *DELETED* [Re: kotik]
    #6887777 - 05/08/07 01:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Anonymous

Reason for deletion: .


Edited by Anonymous (06/11/17 11:52 AM)

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Anonymous #1

Re: Psychiatry the fraud *DELETED* [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #6887781 - 05/08/07 02:00 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Anonymous

Reason for deletion: .


Edited by Anonymous (06/11/17 11:52 AM)

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Invisiblespiritualemerg
Stranger

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6887992 - 05/08/07 06:00 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Kickle: If someone knows the 'real' reason for schizophernia, I would absolutely love to hear it.

Try here: How to Produce an Acute Schizophrenic Break

I don't deny that there is much that we need to learn. But I also do not deny that at this point in time, I, nor anyone I know, has any better alternative for such a maladaptive trait than drugs.

Quote:

"...85% of our clients (all diagnosed as severely schizophrenic) at the Diabasis center not only improved, with no medications, but most went on growing after leaving us."

Dr. John Weir Perry, Diabasis & Jungian Therapy




Quote:

... Ongoing research shows that over 80% of those treated with the approach return to work and over 75% show no residual signs of psychosis. Official government statistics comparing 22 health districts in Finland found that Dr. Seikulla's district was the only one not to have any new chronic hospital patients in a two year period ...

Dr. Jaakko Seikkula & Open Dialogue Treatment




I can not believe that people go through years of schooling with the idea in their head that "hey, let's give people a ton of pills because I can make money off of it." Nor do I think that pills were originally created with this thought in mind. To me, they were created with good intentions, and money got thrown into the mix. That doesn't make the pills themselves evil, but perhaps out of control.

The majority of my online time is spent talking with individuals who have undergone the experience known as psychosis and/or schizophrenia in this culture and those who treat them -- namely, psychiatrists and psychologists. You would be amazed by the number of professionals I encounter who believe that there is no cure for schizophrenia. They believe this because a.) that's what their textbooks and professors told them; b.) they worked damned hard and put out a lot of money to become a psychologist or psychiatrist; and, c.) they want to believe they received the best education.

Quote:

I once asked a clinicial psychologist with thirty years of experience under his belt if he had ever heard of anyone recovering from psychosis without neuroleptic medication.

"No," he said. "Not personally."





That, in a nutshell, is why most professionals behave the way they do -- they don't know anything better because they've never been exposed to anything better. It's worth noting, they sometimes don't want to hear about anything better either.

If you want more information I suggest you check out my blog linked below: Spiritual Recovery. And for the record, no, I'm not a scientologist -- I don't even know any. What I am is someone who has gone through the experience known as schizophrenia and/or psychosis in this culture. My "break" occurred roughly five years ago. Using the language of psychiatry the prodromal phase lasted about 14 months; the break itself lasted about six weeks; it was 14 more months before I was able to return to work in a part-time position only. I've now been working full-time for about three years, my relationships are all stable and by all apparent measurements, I am well. I have made a full recovery without hospitals, doctors, medication, or therapy. I grant that's not going to happen for everyone -- people are different -- but it's good to know that it can and does happen. Chances are it's more likely to happen in a developing nation.

Quote:

Most Americans are unaware that the World Health Organization (WHO) has repeatedly found that long-term schizophrenia outcomes are much worse in the USA and other developed countries than in poor ones such as India and Nigeria, where relatively few patients are on anti-psychotic medications. In undeveloped countries, nearly two-thirds of schizophrenia patients are doing fairly well five years after initial diagnosis; about 40% have basically recovered. But in the USA and other developed countries, most patients become chronically ill. The outcome differences are so marked that WHO concluded that living in a developed country is a strong predictor that a patient will never fully recover.

Source: Understanding Recovery

See also: Mental Breakdown as Healing






Music of the Hour: Vincent


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis

Edited by spiritualemerg (05/08/07 06:22 AM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #6887993 - 05/08/07 06:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

There is a lot more to psychiatry than treating patients. It involves the study of the mind and human behavior.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Kickle]
    #6888033 - 05/08/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I can not believe that people go through years of schooling with the idea in their head that "hey, let's give people a ton of pills because I can make money off of it."




That's not exactly what I was trying to say. I tend to believe that most who are receiving psychiatric schooling genuinely want to help people. However, when I look at the roots and blossoming period of psychiatry in the late 19th and early 20th century, and those who built the foundations of the current system of psychiatric education, I see less than altruistic motivations at work.
Before mass proliferation of pills psychiatrists were using brute force methods of physical trauma to alter a person's behavior. Done in a medical setting this kind of behavior is more frightening to me than some random sicko torturing people in their basement. These guys put on lab coats and hid behind the assumed authority of science and got away with it.

And they had ample financial backing all the way.

Quote:

Kickle said
Nor do I think that pills were originally created with this thought in mind. To me, they were created with good intentions, and money got thrown into the mix. That doesn't make the pills themselves evil, but perhaps out of control.




I disagree. Money was not just thrown into the mix... it all started with money. None of it would have gotten off the ground were it not for some rich families giving large sums to institutions for the explicit purpose of advancing psychiatry.

These financiers were wealthy enough to have their hands in a few honey pots. Like pharmecuticals and higher education. Of course, all the money flowed through Foundations, a very convenient way to put a humanitarian face on things.

There was a concerted effort to fund institutions to carry out experiments and teach the techniques which would result in the demand for more drugs. A nice little racket that remains firmly in place to this day.

Quote:

Kickle said:
Psychotherapy by itself can be a very time consuming process, and very expensive process. People in general don't have the time nor money for this. Where else are they to turn?




To themselves, for one. I understand that this is a huge step for someone to take, and I don't blame anyone for not taking it.

This article is by a woman who got sick of painful hospital experiences and toxic drugs. She decided to step up and take a little responsibility for her own health and started to shift her awareness inwards, to notice patterns which she felt were affecting her condition.

here's a quote from the end of the article, but the whole thing is worth reading.
Quote:

While I know that I have a predisposition towards "manic-depression", I also know that I have some control over this process; I do not have to live in fear of the erratic whims of my biochemistry. Nor do I have to spend my life taking a dangerous drug. I have embarked upon an exciting process of self discovery through taking charge of my problem. I have gained an acute awareness of the subtle ways that my environment affects me and I have learned that I can control many factors which cause changes in my mood. Studying the interaction between mind and body has become a fascination to me. And it is my hope that scientists will begin to look more closely into the body/mind link, and that more humane, health promoting rather than symptom masking treatments will be developed for people with "mental" illness.




They can also turn to others who are willing to help in a truly compassionate manner, such as those involved with the Soteria project

Quote:

Basically, the Soteria method can be characterized as the 24 hour a day application of interpersonal phenomenologic interventions by a nonprofessional staff, usually without neuroleptic drug treatment, in the context of a small, homelike, quiet, supportive, protective, and tolerant social environment. The core practice of interpersonal phenomenology focuses on the development of a nonintrusive, noncontrolling but actively empathetic relationship with the psychotic person without having to do anything explicitly therapeutic or controlling. In shorthand, it can be characterized as "being with," "standing by attentively," "trying to put your feet into the other person's shoes," or "being an LSD trip guide" (remember, this was the early 1970s in California). The aim is to develop, over time, a shared experience of the meaningfulness of the client's individual social context-current and historical. Note, there were no therapeutic "sessions" at Soteria. However, a great deal of "therapy" took place there as staff worked gently to build bridges, over time, between individuals' emotionally disorganized states to the life events that seemed to have precipitated their psychological disintegration. The context within the house was one of positive expectations that reorganization and reintegration would occur as a result of these seemingly minimalist interventions.




Quote:

Kickle said:
The side effects of the drugs are made well known for a reason. It is your choice whether you feel that these horrible side effects are less horrible than your current condition. And with the percentage of people taking them, it must be a truly horrible condition, wouldn't you agree? The lesser of two evils, in a way.




Some people would prefer no evil and instead want real solutions, like the woman I mentioned above. This bogus choice between "evil" and "lesser evil" that we see in many different arenas is a perfect example of the contradictary messages we have conditioned ourselves to accept.

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Invisiblespiritualemerg
Stranger

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
Re: Psychiatry the fraud [Re: Sterile]
    #6888051 - 05/08/07 06:38 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Clean: This article is by a woman who got sick of painful hospital experiences and toxic drugs.

Great link.  I'll be coming back to read all of them when I have a little more time.  Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis

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