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OfflineIkal
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Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 8
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Datura question
    #6880158 - 05/06/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If one is to smoke a datura, how long will the high last? I know that eating or tea produces 2-4 days of high, but I dont want nearly that. (Ive got D. wrightii if that makes any difference)

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OfflineNalim
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880179 - 05/06/07 11:54 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You will not get high that way.. And you shouldn't eat it either..


What you should do is this:
Throw that shit away. Use the search post function and read up on what people has to say about datura.
A hint: it wont be good things..


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."

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OfflineIkal
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Re: Datura question [Re: Nalim]
    #6880197 - 05/06/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

look, I know all about effects of daturas and related plants, including myriad dangers/health risks/dose variability and I still want to use it. I will be very careful in its use. If youre thinking im just a thrill-seeker, youre wrong: I use substances for entheogenic purposes only.

Edited by Ikal (05/06/07 12:04 PM)

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OfflineNalim
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880211 - 05/06/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Then eat it, you will burn the actives trough smoking it..


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."

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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880236 - 05/06/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

you must be crazy. everybody i know that has done the shit (that's 3 people) has never come back the same. it is wildly freaky stuff. not to mention, i dont even know what you'd get out of it. i hear it's hard to remember any of the experience, and a very significant portion of those that try it suffer negative consequences for the rest of their lives. anyway, good luck and watch your dosage.


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It's only the strongest people who will actually help

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OfflineIkal
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Re: Datura question [Re: Nalim]
    #6880240 - 05/06/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Really? I read on a much older thread (that I did not feel like reviving) that others had smoked flowers/seeds/leaves. Were they just talking out of their asses?
And for those who think nothing good ever comes of Datura:
A poster on an entheogenic website, calling himself “Burning_Copal,” had this to say about the deleriant Datura that has caused numerous deaths over the years and is considered by many to be the most dangerous drug in the world (note: previous posts and posters are refered to):

I'll agree, the tropane solanaceae do not have any obvious recreational value, though there may be some people who enjoy the sensations, it is hard to fathom the enjoyment being recreational.

and EB , the quote you had from QB , I'm going to say, your going to find VERY few people even willing to prepare a dosage for a family member who they may be apprenticing, in the western world, liablity is a big issue with these plants, its at the point where if one did wish to learn about the tropane solanaceae , they are most likely going to have to take the road of hard knocks, and hopefully not get knocked off the road, which it is possible to walk, and not get knocked off .

And Tron, It is true that the plant can often dig up very unpleasent things, but the things it digs up are not nessecarily so, when I say they uncover very deeply buried things, these are not always negative, they are rather, the things buried in the mind, that we dont clearly remember, or dont remember at all, but may lead to flashes of things like deja vu or may be aparent in dreams, but not in waking reality. Granted alot of these things can be unpleasent memories ( in many cases probobly the same mental concepts that are the culprits for nightmares ) but this is not always the case, there have been many occasions where a memory of something returned, that at the given time, was something most direly needed to be remembered, in a very posative way. Underlying the harshness of these plants is a true potential to heal, it just has to be approached carefuly, and respectfully, people may beable to get away with redicules dosages of mushrooms, and come away with a minor ' bad trip ' not the case with these. Dosage must be correct for the individual, and something only the individual would know, what may not induce delerium in one, may kill another, the LD50 are relative , especialy in things like this that people react so variably to. I think many of the people who have come to know ( and if they are still interacting, probobly love ) these plants, would have prefered to have some hands on , first hand instruction, but in the western world, this is not feasible, and very unlikely because people would be worried about being sued if the dosage killed the apprentice.

Does that mean its something that should be tossed out of western culture, or that individuals in western culture will find no merit in ? Not at all, its just a near requirement for us now, to take the more dangerous road in learning about the plants. The western worlds concept of ' recreational drug' is not something that fits tropane solanaceae at all.

As time goes by, the diging slowly uncovers less and less unpleasentness, as these things do by in large get resolved if thats your intent in the experience, but at the times that the ' waking nightmares ' occur, it is helpful to retain enough awareness not to become agitated. What I've noticed with each passing year however, is the desire to react to anything , be it posative or negative, in a overblown, or exited fashion, is becoming less and less. May see the most pleasent vision, or the most hideous one, and it just floats by, and is considered for its meaning, not condoned, not condamned it is what it is, and what these plants dig up, are what is needed to be considered, refusing to do so openly and honestly with yourself, is going to result in a very confused mindstate as unless thoes things are resolved, they tend to come up in the dreams in the days following, and in the dreams you have even less control over how you react to things.

Now I'm going to go back to a source that alot of people learned about these plants from, who was widely believed to be a fraud ( by in large I believe he was ) Carlos Castaneda . Fraud or not, he described some things that were acurate, some that were not in regards to this as far as my own experience goes.

That the plant is for ' power ' in a way yes it is, if one is fermilar with the plant and is comfortable with interacting with it, as far as my experience has gone, there is a most certinaly a rush of power shortly following consumption of the sacrament, and then following the narcosis as well, but there IS a narcosis at somepoint between the two, a ' weakness in the middle ' at which time you have even less power then before. This power could be thought of as mental energy, spiritual energy, but a lack of it results in mental lethargy, and physical lethargy as well, this is as best as I can tell the ' narcosis ' that is a inability to resist sleep at some point.

The power when it is experienced at the begining , and the end, as my experience has gone, was a sensation hard to describe, physicaly and mentaly it had a similar effect, it slowed, but keened the movements and actions in the mind and the body, while movement is slowed , what is done with the body / mind at that time, is very keen, very purposeful . You dont exagerate a movement, and you dont exagerate a thought ( or I do not ) as a result alot of energy that would be directed at over reaction to one or another thing, is not at all, and the mind is very quiet. But at the sametime is as if it was dreaming, things are dug up, and tossed infront of you. The reasons I have personaly found this benifical are many , for one being able to recall things that are so deeply buried, allows them to of course be worked with, secondly the ' keening ' allows me more specificly to resolve these then any entheogen I have personaly encountered could aid. Its not only diging up the issue, and presenting it in a way that is not biased by my own concepts of pleasent and unpleasent, its there, if I like it or not, and its telling me what needs to be resolved. At this time, without the mental chatter that we so commonly experience , there is no energy being wasted on that, the body is lethargic but energetic at the sametime, such that its not wasting energy on movements that arent required, and the mind is not doing so with thoughts that are not either, with the purpose in mind for which it was consulted, this allows what ever issue needs to be resolved, to be done so where the individual may not normaly have had enough energy to dig it up / confront it / accept it / and heal it , but then there is the narcosis .

Its during the narcosis that the weakeness occurs, at which time you are no longer conciously aware of the things being dug up, but still are percieving them, at which time they can be quite frightening, as we know nightmares tend to be more so then simply thinking about the samething when awake.

After the narcosis again one wakes up, the power returns in that again the mind is still, and the body more or less as well, the power is less then originaly because at this point, the body is actually injured ( atleast this is my reasoning, again these are my own personal experiences ) and some of that is being used to heal the body, so there is a sense of lethargy that is difficult to shake, but the mind and body remain stilled for a time. However outside human stimuli, people talking, people asking you things about something that has no relevance to your own life , may be quite bothersome.

Now this is a predictable course of events, what occurs within thoes events each time dependant on the conditions, and the purpose of the healing, but it has followed this pattern for quite sometime.

Another thing to consider, if you cant percieve something horribly unpleasent, without becoming agitated, these plants are not going to help. They are going to agitate, I've found for myself that I don't typicaly react to things I see or percive in a emotional fashion untill I can understand what it is I'm actually percieving, then I do my best to keep negative emotions from runing rampent, if one cannot do this, and believes everything they are seeing is ' evil ' and that simply perceving it is a curse or some such, tropanes are going to bury the individual in fear.

I believe I mentioned that I was diagnosed schizophrenic when I was very young, it may be that over the years I became more and more adapt at not reacting to things percieved by the mind in ways that exagerated unpleasentness, and at the sametime, not latching onto things and interpreting them as more posative then they are, something I suppose you have to do with a state of mind in order to remain stable. That may be why I do not have the issues many people do with these plants, I may have learned to keep fear in check even when the mind is essentialy having a waking nightmare.

I guess I do ramble alot about these plants, we all have our friends, we all have our allies, and many of them may seem to others, to be quite unruely, but if one accepts such for long enough period of time, and does so genuinely without fear or malice towards them for the ' hard knocks ' they induce, then there is reason that needs no justification from anyone else, but just the same, the topic comes up , and I guess it could be said I am passionate about the topic, though if one had known me years before, and now years after beginging the relationship with these plants, they would understand that there may be some truely posative potential in them, As far as most people on here have opinons of me, good or ill, thats fine and well, they've known me for only a little over a year, for my family who knows when the change began ( of my own volition, though with Toloache as a guide ) and knows what iniated it , they have said manytimes the change has been dramatic, and quite posative, and family friends as well have made similar comments, though most of them do not know when and why the change occured.

I guess it is a odd situation I'm in when discussion of these things come up, having had such a posative change in my life after beginging the relationship, I of coures feel quite fondly about them, but I am not ignorant to the danger they pose , if prepared or dosed improperly, or consumed with a fearful mindset, or even all thoes aside, I'm quite aware long term ,there are likely physical consequences as we know these plants are quite hard on the body, I'll pay that price, and I'd pay it twice over , or thrice over, because the conditions prior , were a living hell, and now atleast, I'm working towards opening my eyes to life, and being content, peaceful and happy again. Its a work in progress, a windy road, a bumpy road, lots of ups and downs, but for the chance atleast to make the decision to travel this road, rather then just continuing to lay in / die in the ditch I had ended up years back, its well worth it.

I would say, it would be a wonderful thing if more people had such a posative interaction, but most dont typicaly, its not something I take pride in , it simply was the right plant, at the right time, to encourage me to change my life, and I did so, and continue to do so, and weither people call this the ' devils weed ' really dosent matter too much to myself, but again Aha! as Castaneda wrote, he was told she is like a woman, and yes strange as it may seem, I've found myself defending these plants and what ever the allie is present in them, like I would a woman. Even relationships with plants have their quirks.

Edited by Ikal (05/06/07 12:12 PM)

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OfflineNalim
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880257 - 05/06/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:ohwell: you can probably get effects if you smoke enough(not everything is destroyed).. Haven't tried it as I know it's a stupid ass drug to use..


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."

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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880290 - 05/06/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

2 of those 3 i mentioned smoked it. and it worked.

i think they were both in a psych ward within hours. one of them was almost hit by highway traffic, eating shampoo and anything else he could find under the sink, taking a shower (fully clothed), talking to no one on the telephone, and handing his father a shoe before running laps around the cars in his driveway. maybe he just didnt get an 'appropriate' dose though.

have you done this before? because this is a serious gamble.


--------------------
It's only the strongest people who will actually help

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OfflinechemiKalz
u r tripp0r?
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Re: Datura question [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
    #6880305 - 05/06/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

drink some bleach while your at it


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OfflineIkal
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Registered: 05/06/07
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Re: Datura question [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
    #6880325 - 05/06/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No, I havent done it before, but it seems as if none of them had a sitter. And too high a dose. Generally, Ive heard that if you have a dose large enough to induce complete delerium, that will destroy the memory; less will not. I do know someone who has personally done a Brugmansia, but Brugmansia tend to be a bit tamer than Daturas (so I gather).

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6880555 - 05/06/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I smoked it many times
IT doesn't do shit smoked
also dont mess with eating it either. It affects different brains in different ways. we are all wired different. you never know what will happen to you. it isnt a "High" it is delerium from being poisoned. theres a fine line between feeling any effects and death.
most users dont even notice the effects because of the delerium.
do you want to take that risk????

try Ayahuasca instead as its much safer and you will see other realities and you will come back normal.

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Datura question [Re: cpw1971]
    #6880641 - 05/06/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

someone once LITERALLY cut them selves open while on dature with a power saw..

stay away from it man, do some safe drugs if anything...


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

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Invisiblecricket
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Re: Datura question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6880790 - 05/06/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You CAN get a mild, short lasting buzz from smoking the leaves.
You can also die from using this plant.

Smoking leaves gives me a weird, hot feeling headache. You can also drop a seed or three in a bowl of weed. I liked it better then leaves. I don't get that headache. Since you feel the effect soon after you burn it, it is also easier to regulate your dosage.
Stay away from the teas. It's too easy to over do it. Dosage is hard to calculate. Different plants, leaves and seeds from the same patch can have a wide range in potency.

Be safe!


--------------------
I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?

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OfflineSalvinorin
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Re: Datura question [Re: cricket]
    #6880837 - 05/06/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The only context I would even consider doing datura in is if it was given to me by a VERY experienced Amazonian shaman (though it would be called "toe"), and be watched by him the entire time, and have him decided the dose.

Unless you are one of the few remaining shamans in the world, DO NOT DO DATURA.


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"What you say is a cluster-fuck of nonsense."
- Yageman

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Datura question [Re: cricket]
    #6881119 - 05/06/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

ive smoked datura metal flowers alone, and with weed before. I really enjoy mixing them with weed actually, 50/50, gives me a nice change every once in a while from regular old bud. Definitely gives a head change when smoked, but it is very minor. Possibly what i got from it could be placebo...i would never eat any BTW...

ive also read the flowers are the lowest in alkaloids of the whole plant, so i dont know what smoking leaves/seeds would do.

peace

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Datura question [Re: Salvinorin] * 1
    #6881121 - 05/06/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

shamans aren't the holy experts they are cracked up to be.

that a shaman can predict the outcome of datura consumption accurately is a myth. 

they are MOSTLY drug-saavy spiritualists that conduct ritual ceremony and consume or administer drugs to divine evidance of their supersititions.

theres a reason they are so rare.

ANYWAY. The idea is that chances are you wont die from consumeing small ammounts of datura.  chance of death is very small at small doses.

But small to mid-range doses can still result in dangerous disorientation.  you could walk into traffic or drown.

the real power of a shaman in this instance lies NOT in the guessing of the outcome accurately, but rather in taking care to NOT underestimate the stregnth of the tripsitting force required to handle disaster.

the idea that datura was ever used "safely" for spiritual practices is hogwash.  "spirit quests" and their ilk are, and have ALWAYS been dangerous ordeals.

i wonder how the "peyote way church of god" will survive if someone comes seeking wisdom and then wanders into the desert where they get pinched between 2 unbalanced boulders or some accident that obviously wouldn't have happened to a non-tripping person.

just want to get it off my chest that "the way of the shaman", although romantic is a ticking timebomb at best, that enjoys a full and exciting existance counting on probabilities.  Untill the inevitable booboo.

maybe a thousand years ago, a tribe would forgive a "booboo" as par for the course.  But translating the success of shamanism into todays standards of "success"  only makes it SEEM safe.  Because, to us (who take our communal sense of safety for granted), fathoming an unsafe practice being allowed to play a pivital role in an entire civilization for eons seems unlikely.

shamans were revered because people thought they communed with the gods.  NOT because they were known to keep people safe while consuming dangerous substances.

think about that.

now, hopefully all the following images will hotlink :smile:


other dangerous things peopel do but take for granted as normal




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OfflineNalim
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Re: Datura question [Re: Mitchnast]
    #6881228 - 05/06/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Great put, I was thinking something like that but was to lazy to put it in writing.:thumbup:


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."

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Offlinebrshroomer
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Re: Datura question [Re: Nalim]
    #6881376 - 05/06/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

read castaneda's book... it gives you a new view on datura...

rather then eating the whole material, he rubs it in his body... it's pretty cool...it gives him diferent effects just by the area it was put (forehead...legs...) and method of preparation...

but damn..that was strong, the trips he describes are wonderful(not necessarily in a good way...but very powerful)


edit: BTW...that bung jump thing is awesome...i always imagined what would it be like...


--------------------

trade list & wanted list

pinning triggers

Edited by brshroomer (05/06/07 05:43 PM)

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Offlinejustin340
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Re: Datura question [Re: Ikal]
    #6881378 - 05/06/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

i'd stick with eveyrone who says do not try it. I tried it before checkign out the shroomery. i also tried to smoke some of it, it did absolutely nothing. i then ate the seeds about 300 i'd say
the side effects alone are terrible, this is true, i couldn't pee for days my urinary tract was so restricted for some reason, also i had dry mouth so bad i was crying, and i'm a grown man, my whole throat hurt to breathe.
the experience was over the brink of insanity. i thought my telephone cord was a plant that turned into a monster and was going to take over by body, i started screaming and running around like a mad man. THen i proceded to watch tv, but my tv kept turning off. I'd go to turn it back on only to realize that the remote that was in my hand, had appared some place totally different, even though i had not moved and it was well out of my reach.
this terrified me, since it was beyond the laws of logic. at one point i had a remote in my hand, then started thinking why did i take the remote into the bathroom with me, i went to look at the couch and there on the couch was the remote, this blew my mind. in a bad way. i preceded to think salvia was a deamon and after my soul.
i then started reading a book to calm myself down and it was this secreat pamplet from the cia on how dautra is the "truth" i then became confused as to how i got this pamplet. realized it was imaginary. Then my mind told me "you made this pamplet in your past life." this was a shitty explanation, i kept thinking stupid stuff liek that all night, my mind would not work right.
then imaginary people kept appareing, telling me things that made no sense. i'd be getting busted one minute, which truend out to be a hallucination, the next my cousin, would walk out of the closet she also unreal. I felt this deamon presense around the whole experience. like this was way to powerful of a plant to experiment with. I wanted to try it because i heard it could produce totally believable hallucinations, which it does, the other stuff makes it not worth it at all. THe hullicinations also are so severe, i had absolutely no idea as to what was real or not, which is unnerving.
One paticular momoent invovled watching this new tv show called delerium where these mad men dance around this giant flower. I was like "this is a terriable idea for a tv show, what is nbc thinking having a show about people who are possesed by a giant plant. Then i realized this was a hallucination caused by dautra, and it was after me to worship it i thought at the time.
the next day i forgot 90 percent of what happened only to know it was crazy, some odd things are i microwaved an electric drill, couldn't see straight for a week it messes your vision up. Later i found erowid and checked them out only to find out they never reccomed anyone trying dautra.
The effects are beyond anything i thought possible this is the only bizzare part that could be neutral or positve of the whole experience. About 15 percent of it was really interesting an d positive. I did it with no sitter and remember thinking i was lucky as hell to not be arrested, also dautra made me really violent for parts, like i was seriously worried that i could hurt someone i loved so or myself, so i locked myself in my room. I could go on for pages about the crazy shit it made me think afterwards. if you do it have, 2 or 3 sober sitters, don't do it around pubic or do it around any item remotely dangerous. drink tons of water or liquid. also you should post your experience on this thread, i'd be interested to see how it turns out. You'll probably join the "never try this crowd"

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Datura question [Re: justin340]
    #6881415 - 05/06/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Fine times with Datura may be possible thru topical application (that is: absorbed thru the skin). ref: Witches flying ointment.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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* brugmansia spp. seeds felixhigh 2,484 9 08/23/01 05:17 PM
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