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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government
    #6876226 - 05/05/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Obviously it is not legally acceptable, but is it ever ethically or morally acceptable? For example, can a pacifist refuse to give because some of their money goes to a war? Can a libertarian refuse to give because of rampant income redistribution? Can a fiscal conservative refuse to give because the U.S. federal government seems incapable of managing its money?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6876244 - 05/05/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Of course they can. Anyone can make their decisions based upon their own ethical/moral standpoint, so long as they are willing to face potential legal/social consequences.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: Veritas]
    #6876264 - 05/05/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Do their own personal opinions outweigh the loyalty that one should exhibit toward a state or an authority?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6876287 - 05/05/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think that loyalty must be exhibited on both sides. If the state or country is disloyal to the individual, shall the individual disregard their own ethical standpoint in order to maintain their side of a broken contract?

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: Veritas]
    #6876296 - 05/05/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Hm....what a sticky topic with all kinds of questions and ramifications.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6876333 - 05/05/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Personally, I'd like it if our taxes could be invested specifically, much like a 401(k) contribution through an employer.

Each year, when you filed your return, you would be able to direct percentages of your payment to the areas of government which had the highest value/meaning for you.

This would result in the elimination of some aspects of the government, and could have disastrous consequences if the majority made their choices without some degree of foresight and/or philanthropy, but IMO it would also aid us in creating an applied governmental structure "for the people, by the people."

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6876425 - 05/05/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I know a couple (pretty old now) who have never payed taxes because they refuse to provide financial support for the US wars. They manage it by intentionally arranging their finances to remain below the poverty line.

Being pretty smart and not attached to luxury, they live fine. Also, some investments the husband made some years ago are now worth millions - of course, he doesn't sell them because that would necessitate paying taxes. Instead, he plays with his money, and donates it. Definitely the most humbly-living millionares I know.

As far as just refusing to pay taxes, it doesn't much matter whether it's ethical or not - it's definitely stupid.

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6879274 - 05/06/07 04:37 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think that paying taxes is a moral duty. You definitely use the government's services in some way. You rely on it's army for protection, you use it's roads, you rely on a publicly educated workforce, courts to enforce business contracts, the Federal Reserve and the US department of commerce to regulate currency, the FDA to keep your food or medicine from being poisoned, police, fire departments etc. These are things you rely on for your security and well-being.

If any person could arbitrarily abandon their social obligations, we would not have a reliable basis for a state. Why should a cop patrol the bad part of town? Why should the soldier defend his country? Why should we not just let homeless children freeze to death? Why should the judge hear your case instead of the corporate lawyer who represents a lobby funding his or her campaign? These are all done out of duty, not choice. Sometimes morality entails obligations. Paying taxes is a moral obligation. It is something needed in order to fund institutions required for society to function.

I am also wondering whether you have any ethical problem with liberal democracy? I myself strongly believe that there are many serious problems with the US government, but I also recognize that the United States is generally an open society. That entails that there is political legitimacy in it's laws and practices. And unless I see evidence to the contrary, I don't see how arbitrarily breaking a necessary and legitimate law can be considered a moral action. Especially when it's for funding services that you rely on.


Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/06/07 05:11 AM)

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6879443 - 05/06/07 06:29 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

from what i understand, just pay federal and state income tax.

everything else is unimportant (social security, medicaid, etc.)


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6879672 - 05/06/07 09:02 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If the government violates its part of the social contract, I think you are within your rights to opt out of your end of it as well.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: Silversoul]
    #6881029 - 05/06/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So then do you stop using sidewalks and streets and do you stop living on land?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6881087 - 05/06/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Why would you have to stop living on your own private land if one had the ability to stop paying taxes?

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Registered: 08/02/06
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Re: Intentionally avoiding paying taxes to the federal government [Re: Redstorm]
    #6881830 - 05/06/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Why would you have to stop living on your own private land if one had the ability to stop paying taxes?




If your private land is within United States borders it must be dependent on US sovereignty. Because your properties are actively protected by the military and police forces, which in order to effectively fulfill their duties require the support of a functional society. I think everyone realizes that without the proper legislation, court system, and law-enforcement private property cannot be defined, let alone used as a measure of morality. I think that everyone likewise realizes that a government, composed of politicians and accompanying bureaucrats is necessary for a functional society and taxation is necessary for the existence of this government.

Even private property requires the protection of the state, to, at the very least, protect such property from expropriation by another state. To make use of state services without paying for them is stealing.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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