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OfflineiSlak
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WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing
    #6729076 - 03/30/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I'm using 1 quart jars of WBS as prepared per manual. Unfortunately, about half the jars stall while colonizing or take very long times to colonize (5-8 weeks). Not only that, but, often only the exterior outer edges of the cake colonize, leaving a hollow center of bird seed. The bottom of the jars are also not colonizing, ever.

I'm using tyvek filters with two large holes punched in the tops of the lids. Incubating temperatures are kept at a consistant 82-86 degrees.

I suspect a moisture deficiency, but I made sure to wash the grains in water before loading them into the PC as most guides would advise 30 minutes of drying time after washing of the grains.

Is this colonization behavior typical of WBS substrate? I'm currently trying rye seed to overcome this issue.

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Offlineatomheartmother
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6729097 - 03/30/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

BS can be moody and hard to get. i had a few turn out that way. i actually cooked up some more BS and used a spoon to transplant the old colonized parts to the new jar and it worked perfectly. i also used some of the other half colonized jars and went a head a mad small casings, see the retarded posts, which worked too. then i used some more to spawn to poo... that's still making progress.


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"When you die you're going to mushroom purgatory where the fungus will torment you for not taking better care of them. You will be eternally haunted by fungal nightmares."

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: atomheartmother]
    #6729179 - 03/30/07 06:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Your holes in the lid are WAY too large. Use three or four 1/16" holes, or two or three 1mm holes. Large holes will allow the WBS to dry out. Properly made quarts of grain spawn should colonize in ten days from an agar wedge, or in 14 to 17 days from spore syringe.
RR


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OfflineCiv
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6729185 - 03/30/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

82-86 degrees




And you can bet your core temps on those jars are a bit more- it can be up to 5 degrees warmer in the middle.


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"...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..."  -Agar

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OfflineiSlak
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: Civ]
    #6730030 - 03/30/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Civ said:
Quote:

82-86 degrees




And you can bet your core temps on those jars are a bit more- it can be up to 5 degrees warmer in the middle.



Oh snap. I know my incubator has gotten to 90+ degrees before. Could this be a serious issue?

What incubator temperature should I aim for?


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Your holes in the lid are WAY too large. Use three or four 1/16" holes, or two or three 1mm holes. Large holes will allow the WBS to dry out. Properly made quarts of grain spawn should colonize in ten days from an agar wedge, or in 14 to 17 days from spore syringe.
RR



This applies to both tyvek and foil covers? I thought the tyvek trapped in moisture and allowed only air to pass through.

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OfflineTobolam
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6730356 - 03/31/07 12:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I know people will start getting angry at me for this advice but: DO NOT TAKE OUT SUNFLOWER SEEDS FROM YOUR WBS. Look at it, if you use a spore solution, there's where the myc starts to colonize. If you did it "per manual" you probably took out the sunflower seeds and the other grain takes a little bit longer to start. Also 80-82 for inc

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OfflineBlehMaestro
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6730435 - 03/31/07 01:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iSlak said:
Quote:

Civ said:
Quote:

82-86 degrees




And you can bet your core temps on those jars are a bit more- it can be up to 5 degrees warmer in the middle.



Oh snap. I know my incubator has gotten to 90+ degrees before. Could this be a serious issue?

What incubator temperature should I aim for?


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Your holes in the lid are WAY too large. Use three or four 1/16" holes, or two or three 1mm holes. Large holes will allow the WBS to dry out. Properly made quarts of grain spawn should colonize in ten days from an agar wedge, or in 14 to 17 days from spore syringe.
RR



This applies to both tyvek and foil covers? I thought the tyvek trapped in moisture and allowed only air to pass through.




The issue of incubation temperature has been coming up very frequently in the past few days, and RR(among many other people), have been stating many times that 86 is a false 'optimal' temp. Room temp is fine and up to 80 degrees, but past that is not going to help, only give some contams an easier time taking over.

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OfflineiSlak
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: BlehMaestro]
    #6730967 - 03/31/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Lower temperatures, smaller holes, got it.

Awesome, thank you. :stoned:

Edit: Should I also incubate my casings at a lower temperature? (75-80)?

Edited by iSlak (03/31/07 07:38 AM)

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Invisibleagar
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6731045 - 03/31/07 08:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Edit: Should I also incubate my casings at a lower temperature? (75-80)?




Generally, :thumbup:

Spawned bulk h/poo trays should be incubated around 72/73F.
They can generate a LOT of heat, once the get going.
If they get to hot, fermentation can/will set in & kill them.


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: agar]
    #6731292 - 03/31/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
They can generate a LOT of heat




Isn't that the truth,I remember the bottom of the swearer boxes being practically hot to the touch when I used poo

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OfflineiSlak
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: Blutjager]
    #6731986 - 03/31/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

For reference, here's a shot of the lids with the large holes:

Made with a large knife and twisting.

Here are the one's made with a nail and hammer. I didn't measure 1/16", but they look to be close enough.


Before I PC my grains should I let them dry for 30 minutes after washing them? They'll be soaking for approximately 16 hours.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6731998 - 03/31/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

You don't need 4 holes in a lid.

2 is fine.
Innoc through 1 & tape it over.
Leave the other for gas exchange.
Or, tape over the innoc hole with micropore tape.
And, have both for gas exchange.

Inserting/removing a needle only once.
Has a far better chance of not contaminating content.
Than, inserting/removing 4 times.
Think about that.


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OfflineiSlak
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: agar]
    #6732015 - 03/31/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
You don't need 4 holes in a lid.

2 is fine.
Innoc through 1 & tape it over.
Leave the other for gas exchange.
Or, tape over the innoc hole with micropore tape.
And, have both for gas exchange.

Inserting/removing a needle only once.
Has a far better chance of not contaminating content.
Than, inserting/removing 4 times.
Think about that.



For sure. I was only gonna inoculate once through one of the holes. I usually just tape over the tyvek with duct tape after inoculation. I wasn't sure how many holes I'd need for gas exchange, but I'll go with two from now on.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6732071 - 03/31/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Two holes that size will be plenty. I use four holes, but make them about half or less that size. Not only will having the holes too large dry out your grains, but they also encourage invitro pinning due to the low CO2 levels. You want the CO2 levels in your grain spawn to be quite high.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineiSlak
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6732137 - 03/31/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Unfortunately, I created a semi-large batch of quart jars with holes as pictured above. Dur!

Would it be sane to make a recovery attempt? I could sterilize new lids, open the jars and mist with a peroxide spray, and replace the old lids with the new.

Either way, I'm gonna give it a shot.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: WBS Quarts Jars Not Properly Colonizing [Re: iSlak]
    #6732531 - 03/31/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, tape over a few holes with packing tape.
Do NOT remove lids.


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