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OfflineProgFron
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French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!]
    #6712038 - 03/26/07 04:50 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

http://www.parool.nl/nieuws/2007/MRT/26/p1.html

'Dood na paddo's is schuld staat'


Van een verslaggever



AMSTERDAM - De ouders van een zeventienjarig Frans meisje houden de Nederlandse staat indirect verantwoordelijk voor de dood van hun dochter. Het meisje pleegde vorige week na het eten van paddo's zelfmoord door bij wetenschapscentrum Nemo van de brug bij de IJtunnel te springen.

De ouders hekelen het feit dat in Nederland hallucigene paddenstoelen vrij te koop zijn. Ze zijn geschokt dat hun minderjarige dochter, Gaelle Caroff, kennelijk zonder vertoon van een identiteitsbewijs paddo's heeft kunnen kopen. Smartshophouders mogen volgens de wet hun waren niet aan jongeren onder de achttien jaar verkopen.

''Mijn dochter heeft paddo's geconsumeerd maar wilde niet dood. Daar ben ik van overtuigd. Ze wilde leven. Het zijn de drugs die haar hebben gedood,'' zegt moeder Nathalie in dagblad De Pers.

De PVV heeft inmiddels vragen gesteld aan minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin van Justitie.

De ouders willen dat er betere voorlichting komt op de verpakking en dat de leeftijdsgrens wordt opgetrokken. Deze drugs, zoals de Franse ouders paddenstoelen noemen, mogen niet verkocht worden aan jongeren onder de 21 jaar. ''Die zijn veel te kwetsbaar. Bovendien moet op de pakjes worden gewaarschuwd voor de risico's.''

Drugsdeskundige August de Loor vindt het moeilijk iets te zeggen over de zaak. ''Je weet niet wat er precies speelde. Als iemand met zelfmoordplannen rondloopt, is het gebruik van genotsmiddelen altijd gevaarlijk. Wordt dit ook gezegd als er alcohol in het spel is?''

Net als andere genotsmiddelen versterken paddo's de gemoedstoestand, zegt De Loor. Hij kan zich het verdriet van de ouders voorstellen. ''Maar als een relatie wordt gelegd tussen het Nederlandse beleid van openheid en de dood van hun dochter, is er sprake van omgekeerde logica. In Frankrijk is het verboden, en daar kun je de overheid in het geheel niet verantwoordelijk stellen.''

© Het Parool, 26-03-2007, 11:55



Well this is what happened: A French 17 year-old was in Amsterdam with her parents. She did shrooms and ended up jumping off a bridge. The parents are holding the dutch government indirectly responsible for their daughters death.

"My daughter consumed shrooms but she didn't want to die. I'm convinced of that. She wanted to live. The drugs have killed her" Says mother Nathalie.

Drugs expert August de Loor says: "It's difficult to say something about this case. You don't what exactly happened. If someone has suicidal problems it's always dangerous to use drugs. But is the same said if this was an alcohol induced death case?


This could mean that shrooms will be getting illegal here in the Netherlands.:thumbdown:
The smartshop was wrong though in selling a 17 year-old mushrooms, the minimum age is 18.

Maybe someone can find an English article about this?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: ProgFron]
    #6712059 - 03/26/07 05:18 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

> The drugs have killed her

To be brutally blunt, lack of parenting killed the daughter... where were the parents when an child was out getting and consuming drugs... where were the parents when the child was being taught (lied to) about the real effects of various drugs. But... it is much easier to blame a drug, or a foreign culture, rather than oneself for the loss of a loved one. Very sad; my prayers go out to the family.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: Seuss]
    #6712102 - 03/26/07 06:43 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The drugs have killed her

To be brutally blunt, lack of parenting killed the daughter...




Usually how it is in situations where the parents come out right away and blame a drug. Its never the parents fault anymore...atleast its not only and American problem, it seems internationally parents arent responsible anymore. Im not sure if that makes me feel any better or not though lol.

If one drug death makes shrooms illegal, then the government is taking way to many tips from the US. I wonder how many people die anually, worldwide, from alcohol..either directly or indirectly? Although I doubt I am going to find that statistic...

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OfflineProgFron
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: dedjam]
    #6712152 - 03/26/07 07:50 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

gopenguins said:

If one drug death makes shrooms illegal, then the government is taking way to many tips from the US. I wonder how many people die anually, worldwide, from alcohol..either directly or indirectly? Although I doubt I am going to find that statistic...




Word, but you know what governments are like.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: ProgFron]
    #6712156 - 03/26/07 07:52 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

ProgFron said:
Word, but you know what governments are like.




no kidding. Now they can play the "do it for the poor suffering childred" card since the girl who died was a minor. Of course, I dont like kids, so that argument has no affect on me lol

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OfflineTurricaN
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: dedjam]
    #6712479 - 03/26/07 10:34 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

What a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, but anyone who walks around Amsterdam whilst shrooming has obviously not done their homework. It's a very busy city with more than its fair share of dodgy people. You can buy mushrooms there, but it's definitely NOT a place to take mushrooms. It's her own goddamn fault - END OF STORY.

And the result? This sucks BAD. I'm going to have to go to Amsterdam this weekend and ask around the Smartshops to find out what's going on. If they're going to make mushrooms illegal, I'm going to stock up or buy a few grow-kits.

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: TurricaN]
    #6712551 - 03/26/07 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

i think the dutch goverment has learned that drugs don't kill people - people kill people, including themselves. this case only shows that there are few idiots among hundreds of educated people. people OD on prescription drugs every day on purpose while not under any influence of "illegal" drugs but then it's always the persons problem.


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: Seuss]
    #6712880 - 03/26/07 01:13 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Blaming the parents is about as dumb as blaming the drug, she was 17 not 8.

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Offlinexeallos
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #6712881 - 03/26/07 01:14 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Obviously that woman was too stupid to raise children, God has proved that much... better implode the universe just to be safe, you crazed shrew!

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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #6712890 - 03/26/07 01:16 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
i think the dutch goverment has learned that drugs don't kill people - people kill people, including themselves. this case only shows that there are few idiots among hundreds of educated people. people OD on prescription drugs every day on purpose while not under any influence of "illegal" drugs but then it's always the persons problem.



Drugs do kill people, whether or not you can blame the substance is another thing all together, but if someone shoots heroin and dies they died as a direct result of using heroin.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #6712894 - 03/26/07 01:17 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

twiggedoubt said:
Blaming the parents is about as dumb as blaming the drug, she was 17 not 8.




If the child was having severe mental and emotional problems, then why were the parents not involved? Why had they not created an environment of support and understanding and practiced effective communication with their child as they raised her so that, if any concerns did exist, they would have been aware of it and would have been capable of helping her heal?

Answer: A lot of parents do not know the slightest thing about raising children to be mature and emotionally-balanced, positive, conscious individuals because they lack the qualities themselves.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6713147 - 03/26/07 02:28 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

so its the drugs fault that this girl was an idiot? Im sorry parents, but it sounds like this girl either wanted to die, or had no idea what she was doing and had a terribly bad trip. either way, its her fault not shrooms's fault.

you can NEVER blame a drug for killing some one. Drugs have no conscience, or voice in what you do whatsoever.


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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6713225 - 03/26/07 02:49 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

darwinism


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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, olny taht the frist and lsat ltteres are at the rghit pcleas. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by ilstef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

"Everything that we know and understand comes down to perception, and by altering this perception we shake everything we know. All that you and I can know and understand is what we can see smell hear think touch and so on, and when something like mushrooms or salvia alters this steady perception, it can break reality permanently." - Dihnekis

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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: ProgFron]
    #6715371 - 03/27/07 01:57 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Another Dutch article, don't have time to translate now.
It also says the girl was travelling with friends who weren't minors. So the other girls should have kept an eye out like trip sitters should. So I blame lack of education/responsibility.
Also it says the some politicians are calling for a complete ban on mushrooms. :crazy:
We will see how this develops.


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OfflineProgFron
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: cybrbeast]
    #6715499 - 03/27/07 02:46 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:

Also it says the some politicians are calling for a complete ban on mushrooms. :crazy:
We will see how this develops.




That is some fucked up shit! My guess is that they're getting banned:mad2:.


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OfflineProgFron
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: ProgFron]
    #6715573 - 03/27/07 03:24 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

ProgFron said:
The smartshop was wrong though in selling a 17 year-old mushrooms, the minimum age is 18.




It seems that one of her friends, who was over 18, bought the shrooms.


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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: ProgFron]
    #6716313 - 03/27/07 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

ProgFron said:
Quote:

cybrbeast said:

Also it says the some politicians are calling for a complete ban on mushrooms. :crazy:
We will see how this develops.




That is some fucked up shit! My guess is that they're getting banned:mad2:.



Fucking hell... You might be right. I just heard in the news that there's a majority in the parliament for the banning of mushrooms. The majority is composed of CDA and CU, christian parties, and the so called liberals VVD, and the far right idiot party PVV (translates as party of freedom, yeah right).

But there's hope yet. First it's likely that there will be a study on the effects and dangers of mushrooms.
Also the coalition in the parliament is CDA, CU and PvdA (labor). The last party is against the banning of mushrooms, and usually the coalition speaks with one voice. So the PvdA might stop this stupid proposal.

I want to emigrate, but where to? Is there a country with more freedoms?


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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: cybrbeast]
    #6716345 - 03/27/07 12:35 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:
I want to emigrate, but where to? Is there a country with more freedoms?




We live in a world where true freedom, even over your own body, does not exist.

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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: dedjam]
    #6716373 - 03/27/07 12:42 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

I know. It's very scary.
Although AFAIK in Russia and Portugal the possession of any drug up to something like 5 standard doses is allowed.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: French 17 year-old died after jumping of a bridge, while on shrooms. [Dutch!] [Re: cybrbeast]
    #6716401 - 03/27/07 12:48 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:
I know. It's very scary.
Although AFAIK in Russia and Portugal the possession of any drug up to something like 5 standard doses is allowed.




Fuck it though, still limitations. I want my own islands with my own freedoms. But then, countries like the USA will come to my island, drop off its military, and tell me what laws I must have and abide by on my own land.

Really, if we truly had private property in the US, then doing drugs on your property should be no concern of law enforcement. But our property is not really ours, and law enforcement officers tend to think its their DUTY to make sure no one is doing drugs, even in the privacy of their own home.

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