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 justdrumluck
Cespitose Pinstalker
Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 49
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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 Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? 
#6437913 - 01/08/07 11:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I purchased brown rice flour and vermiculite for my substrate, but the flour did not specifically say organic. Now, after disinfecting the jars and inoculation, I only have mycelium growth near the top of the jars only. It's been nearly three weeks of incubation at 80 degrees. Perhaps there are fungicides and pesticides that are preventing further growth. Is there any way to transfer the mycelium or work with what I've got growing in the top layer of vermiculite? Any ideas?
word. 
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My Panaeolus tropicalis Grow
Koyaanasqatsi
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 creamcorn
mad scientist
 
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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 Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: justdrumluck]
#6437933 - 01/08/07 11:08 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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brown rice flour won't contain pesticides or fungicides, organic or not
it *may* contain preservatives that could pose a problem, but even that is highly unlikely. (check the ingredients, if the only ingredient is "brown rice" you're fine.)
its much more likely something else is wrong. you shouldn't have *anything* growing in your top verm layer.
pictures might help, or at least describe the procedure you used. are your holes covered up? remember, without gas exchange, your mycelium will suffocate and stall, and eventually die. over-moisture is a common problem, as is bacterial contaminations which would prevent growth.
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: creamcorn]
#6438316 - 01/08/07 01:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said:
its much more likely something else is wrong. you shouldn't have *anything* growing in your top verm layer.
pictures might help
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justdrumluck
Cespitose Pinstalker
Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 49
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: creamcorn]
#6441578 - 01/09/07 12:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had aluminum foil over the holes. I removed the foil to allow for gas exchange yesterday. The jars with the most (though still little) growth are shown in the pictures. I can't tell if the grains of vermiculite and flour are just wet or if there is something growing on them. How would I check for over-moisture and rectify it?
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My Panaeolus tropicalis Grow
Koyaanasqatsi
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: justdrumluck]
#6441720 - 01/09/07 01:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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based on the pictures, the top two look almost certainly ok to me, i don't see any mycelium for sure in the bottom one (but also no obvious problems)... i do see something growing, could just be the bottom picture... little more time will tell.
looks like the growth is kicking off just under your dry verm layer, that's not too far from normal. usually they germinate in the area as far down as your needle reached. 
now that they can breathe you'll likely see them pick up some speed.
also, you don't really check for over-moisture, and you don't fix it. you hopefully do it right when you prepare them, otherwise, keep your fingers crossed it will work. 
they do look ok though. the only other thing to check for is odd smells. that would indicate bacterial infection, and if anything that might be a problem on the third pictured jar there... no odd/bad smells, probably just fine
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justdrumluck
Cespitose Pinstalker
Registered: 01/08/07
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 Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: creamcorn]
#6451975 - 01/12/07 11:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, there doesn't seem to be much more progress in the jars. And they do smell a little strange, like yogurt. Looks like my first attempt has failed. Think I should dump the non-growth jars and keep the others just in case? Any suggestions for procedure? I followed the PF-tek method with verm and rice flour in half pint jars. I will certainly use a pressure-cooker instead of boiling next time. And a glovebox couldn't hurt. 
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My Panaeolus tropicalis Grow
Koyaanasqatsi
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: justdrumluck]
#6452028 - 01/12/07 12:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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The smell combined with the stall means they were contaminated with bacteria. This is common unfortunately when steam sterilizing - molds are killed off pretty easy, but bacteria can be a little more heat resistant.
A pressure cooker next go will solve it for sure. I've steamed plenty of cakes just for the experience, and found that the recommended 60 minutes is sort of marginal when it comes to the bacteria issue, go a bit over, 75-90 minutes steaming, and the problem is drastically reduced. Good luck for the next go
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time2
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: justdrumluck]
#6452042 - 01/12/07 12:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't had success in boiling either... I've had success in steaming in a pot though. Put you 1/2 pint jars in a pot with a rag on the bottom, fill with cold water 1/2 way up the jars turn stove on high. When water starts boiling put on low heat and cover pot with lid now let it steam for 60 MINUTES, shut stove off let jars cool for 24 hours, inoculate, wait, fruit, harvest, eat.
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: time2]
#6452047 - 01/12/07 12:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
time2 said:
I haven't had success in boiling either... I've had success in steaming in a pot though.
Steaming and boiling is the same thing. The steam comes from boiling water... when we say boiling we don't literally mean submerging them in boiling water or anything... just as in, the absence of a pressure cooker
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justdrumluck
Cespitose Pinstalker
Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 49
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Fungicide in Brown Rice Flour? Able to Salvage? [Re: creamcorn]
#6458492 - 01/14/07 12:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oof, I think I was ill-advised by a grow video online.  Do you keep foil over the tops of jars during steaming? I don't understand why you'd use foil in the first place. Don't you want steam in the holes of the jar? And doesn't the verm layer on top prevent/inhibit contamination after steaming? This step is where I had some confusion.
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My Panaeolus tropicalis Grow
Koyaanasqatsi
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