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InvisibleCaptainKirk

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 2,478
Loc: gone
bush says ok to open mail without warrant
    #6424762 - 01/04/07 02:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-408789c.html
W pushes envelope on U.S. spying

New postal law lets Bush peek through your mail

WASHINGTON - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the Daily News has learned.

The President asserted his new authority when he signed a postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions.

That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it.

Bush's move came during the winter congressional recess and a year after his secret domestic electronic eavesdropping program was first revealed. It caught Capitol Hill by surprise.

"Despite the President's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.

Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.

"The [Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.

"The danger is they're reading Americans' mail," she said.

"You have to be concerned," agreed a career senior U.S. official who reviewed the legal underpinnings of Bush's claim. "It takes Executive Branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."

A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised, "It's something we're going to look into."

Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane reform measures. But it also explicitly reinforced protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.

Yet in his statement Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."

Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming any new authority.

"In certain circumstances - such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' - the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches," she said.

Bush, however, cited "exigent circumstances" which could refer to an imminent danger or a longstanding state of emergency.

Critics point out the administration could quickly get a warrant from a criminal court or a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge to search targeted mail, and the Postal Service could block delivery in the meantime.

But the Bush White House appears to be taking no chances on a judge saying no while a terror attack is looming, national security experts agreed.

Martin said that Bush is "using the same legal reasoning to justify warrantless opening of domestic mail" as he did with warrantless eavesdropping.

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Offlineeris
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Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: CaptainKirk]
    #6424770 - 01/04/07 02:10 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Lame.


--------------------
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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: eris]
    #6424804 - 01/04/07 02:19 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Every shroomery member should now mail an envelope of excretement to George Bush at the White house.

That should cause a stink in his program. What a fuckling creepy man.

Not my president. I did not vote for him. He is a piece of shit. And so is the rest of his family. The only decent bush is a burning one.

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OfflineToqomS
Shroomery Ding Dong

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 162
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6424852 - 01/04/07 02:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds perfect, we just need to send more Anthrax envelopes to each other, just put on it, WARNING ANTHRAX, Bush won't even notice and hopefully we can be rid of him before summer =)

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Offlinesubconsciousness
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Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 38
Loc: inside the mothership
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6424864 - 01/04/07 02:44 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think it is extremely hypocritical that an administration that is so secretive about its own activities, sees fit to pry into the private lives of Americans. I sincerely hope Bush's approval ratings sink down to four percent. No, I take that back; I think zero would be better.

I remember back at the 1992 Republican convention, there was a Republican governor who made a speech about privacy. He said basically that the government needs to stay out of our checkbooks and our bedrooms. But of course, the fundamentalist Christians in the crowd booed and jeered him loudly when they heard that. I think that governor is an example of an endangered species in the Republican party: conservatives who value individual liberties.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times."
--Bill Hicks

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
--P.J. O'Rourke

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Registered: 07/12/05
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: Toqom]
    #6424891 - 01/04/07 02:53 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It seems not all of us have learned from Hitler's mistakes...

I can't help but fear for the world when the land of the free stays silent as they are shackled...


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: CaptainKirk]
    #6425082 - 01/04/07 03:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 07:05 PM)

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OfflineNephlyte
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Registered: 10/11/05
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: subconsciousness]
    #6425095 - 01/04/07 03:56 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

subconsciousness said:

I remember back at the 1992 Republican convention, there was a Republican governor who made a speech about privacy. He said basically that the government needs to stay out of our checkbooks and our bedrooms. But of course, the fundamentalist Christians in the crowd booed and jeered him loudly when they heard that. I think that governor is an example of an endangered species in the Republican party: conservatives who value individual liberties.




Yes, i sincerely believe that the current replubican party is a threat to personal freedom

What bothers me more than Republicans becoming the jesus nazi party, is that the Democrats have no taken one step to help secure our individual rights. They sit idly by and let things like this happen unless it will gain them some ground by denying legislation(or in this case, an emperor's edict) to republicans.


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Invisibledutchmushroom
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1,393
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: Nephlyte]
    #6425159 - 01/04/07 04:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

demicrats are wrong about somethings and so are republicans, they both are fuckin idiots having a govement is a sttupid idea there needs to be some athority but not to the extent that we have now, somewhere it says something about a country for the ppl by the ppl if only that where still true )


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"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand says: don't you see? Gotta make it some how, on the dreams you still believe, Don't give it up, you've got an empty cup, only love can fill, only love can fill" < Grateful Dead!

The bus came by and I got on, and thats when it all began


GROWLIGHT KIT, 250w HPS Digital ballast, + Enhanced Spectrum bulb and Reflector Sale Or Trade!
     

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Registered: 05/11/06
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #6425222 - 01/04/07 04:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dutchmushroom said:
demicrats are wrong about somethings and so are republicans, they both are fuckin idiots having a govement is a sttupid idea there needs to be some athority but not to the extent that we have now, somewhere it says something about a country for the ppl by the ppl if only that where still true )



That was the most incoherent rambling I have ever seen.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: robbyberto]
    #6425290 - 01/04/07 05:05 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

>That was the most incoherent rambling I have ever seen<

It was Abe Lincoln who said those famous words at Gettysburg, "...that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth"

We should get back to our roots. We had a Cold War with the Soviet Union for 40 years. And now today we are more like the USSR than the USA.

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OfflineEternitys_Child
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Registered: 04/01/06
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Loc: Chinatown Houston
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: veggie]
    #6425490 - 01/04/07 06:00 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I can see our freedom diminishing before my own eyes, yet we have no power to do anything about it. :frown:

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: Eternitys_Child]
    #6425554 - 01/04/07 06:19 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

we can't do anything about it and our government knows it...why wouldn't they take advantage of that fact? They are in power, they have jobs and loads of money....

if they stopped stripping our rights away they wouldn't have anything to do!! HENCE, they would be jobless or really really bored!

and the real problem that is about to emerge is when the governmen tdoesn't have to brain wash soilders to enforce laws...all they ahve to do is use high tech weapons that don't require people...well except those pushing the buttons.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Offlinegoodolgoogy
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Registered: 11/06/06
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #6425615 - 01/04/07 06:37 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I get the feeling if I send an e-mail of protest they'll somehow track me down and try to bust me on some stupid shit. I don't subscribe to any of that right or left bullshit but fuck the administration.


--------------------
RogerRabbit said:
Don't assault your mycelium with peroxide.  That's like throwing acid in your girlfriends face just to see if it sizzles.

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,502
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: goodolgoogy]
    #6425853 - 01/04/07 07:36 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, heres the plan. We take over Cuba as soon as Fidel Castro dies. It will be easy. From there we establish a true free democracy and an economy based on the casinos and prostitution in Havana. People will flock to our New Cuba for drugs and sex and freedom. Perhaps then the world will see how well true freedom works and the revolution will begin.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Registered: 10/30/06
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: robbyberto]
    #6425891 - 01/04/07 07:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

you see this? this is george bush on both sides of this woman. and the woman is america. i guess the sperm represents all of the unfair laws and stuff being saltily poured on the american people, and all we can do is let it drip off of our enormous free-trade tits in time.
:mattz:


--------------------


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: robbyberto]
    #6426175 - 01/04/07 09:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 07:05 PM)

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Offlinerobbyberto
Water Boy
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Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,502
Loc: Netherlands Flag
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6427363 - 01/05/07 09:04 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
What you're describing (the racketeering, casinos, prostitution rings, etc.) is what Cuba looked like under Batista prior to the Cuban Revolution; though I would hardly call an island where half the population was extremely poor and went to bed hungry every night 'true democracy' or 'true freedom'.



It was a joke.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Registered: 04/27/03
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: robbyberto]
    #6427464 - 01/05/07 09:57 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck that.

if that happened in my country i'd start a rebellion.

Are you guys just gonna let all your civil libertys erode?

Freedom is all you have, once they've locked down every aspect of your lives then you become robots.

Start a revolution.

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: bush says ok to open mail without warrant [Re: Ego Death]
    #6427500 - 01/05/07 10:18 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Where do you live?


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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