|
 Mosis
miserable cunt
Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 169
|
 I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain 
#6360272 - 12/12/06 03:45 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I consider myself to be pretty open minded. I am open to new ideas as long as they can survive logical scrutiny (philosphical ideas) or scientific scrutiny (well, scientific ideas). However, I find myself generally lacking in areas of knowledge that I only wish I could fully explore.
I like reading books, I like reading forums, I like reading Erowid, I like reading Wikipedia, and I like talking to people about the things I've read. Most of the time, people are uninspiring, disagree with me but offer no alternative hypothesis or close themselves off to the debate, claiming to be "right" and that I should "just accept it," or admitting to their ignorance and being happy with it, or are generally on par with me and offer me nothing in the way of learning.
I'm an undergraduate mathematical physics student, and as such, have focused my studies in the physical sciences. I also have all sorts of books on more advanced quantum and cosmological theories, anthropology, neuropsychology, evolution, politics, and philosophy. I read up casually on Wikipedia and then search for better sources. I digest as much over at Erowid as I can.
With all my amassed knowledged in my 18 years of living, I still feel intellectually inadequate and foolish. My drug knowledge is often destroyed by the greater experience of people here (though I've yet to read EVERYTHING on Erowid... that's a lot of stuff), I do not yet have the mathematical foundation to precisely talk about physical theories, and my fleeting interests in evolution and chemistry wouldn't let me defend myself against scrutiny in a real discussion, not to mention that I know pretty much nothing that big-time philosophers have thought about.
In short, I'm smarter than most, but still dumber than a few, and these few put me down when I come across them. I wish to engage in intellectual discussion and debate but I either find that 1) I don't have enough knowledge to contribute productively and am overlooked or 2) I have too much knowledge and I don't learn anything myself.
So I ask myself, and I ask you all, is an unquenchable thirst for knowledge a healthy path on which one should set out? I don't think I'll ever be happy with what I know, how I think, and why I think it. Can we ever truly question all of our assumptions? What does it mean to have a truly "open mind"? I feel that, sometimes, I, and even the most brilliant of thinkers, cannot defend everything they believe, and that because of this inherent assumption, "open mindedness" is fallicious. How do we know when someone else is being ridiculous and when it is in fact we who are the "closed minded" ones?
This is a question with which I've been grappling for some time now. I wish to be knowledgeable, wise, and accepting of change, but it seems that the three are not necessarily mutually compatible.
|
 Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
 Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6360420 - 12/12/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Why defend anything?
|
Khaunshar
Stranger
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 136
Loc: BE
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6360492 - 12/12/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
you can talk to yourself, write what you think if you want, i find much more when i write something down.
i lack the social skills to talk to other people.. in here i do anyways
--------------------
fashs and cops, both go down, as the aggro spreads across town, bricks n bottles fall like rain, evil coppers double up in pain
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Khaunshar]
#6360584 - 12/12/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You definitely have some solid thought processes occuring, or else you wouldn't be able to express yourself as clearly as you have. 
Your quest for knowledge will be in vain if you are more concerned with your present understanding's relative state to that of others. We learn of the nature of reality for ourselves - for our ability to more effectively interact with reality to fufill our own preferences, for our own enjoyment, for our present experience.
There will always be someone who has specialized in one certain aspect of reality than another, and it is this way with everything. Become aware of your present experience. Utilize your understanding to further yourself and your perceptions. Realize that we are on a continual path of transformation, and contemplate how the thoughts and actions you are exhibiting in this moment will facillitate this change.
I personally find that I can learn from others, even if what I learn is not what I am more interested in learning. Each moment is the expression of reality and its nature, and, in this moment, we can become aware of reality. Use your understanding and your ability to think to become conscious. You are off to a great start. 
--------------------
 
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
|
RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: fireworks_god]
#6360599 - 12/12/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
:thumbsup:
I'm 32, and I've been absorbing knowledge since I got my first Encyclopedia when I was 8 or so. I'm still not done, but the quest continues... I like knowing things. I don't compare my knowledge on a competitive level because that would be missing the point. I learn for ME, so I know the truth...
If I had wikipedia, google and billions of interent pages, maybe I'd know MORE, but I still wouldn't be done. Reminds me of a quote...
In order to know everything, one must know one cannot know everything. <-- or something to that effect.
Moral of the story, you quest will never end. However, it is a noble quest nonetheless, and should be continued. Think of the alternative... you could join the herd of know nothing sheep that annoy you everyday! 
PS - I read wiki everyday... I start at the main page, and just move off on random tangents. That's after reading 15 news articles, my editorial cartoons and 2 cups of strong black coffee. I like my coffee just like I like my women. Chopped up and in the freezer! <- couldn't resist.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: RoosterCogburn]
#6360615 - 12/12/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You should have said "strong and black". 
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6360886 - 12/12/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mosis said:
...but still dumber than a few, and these few put me down when I come across them. ...
I have been faking it since 11 (tomorrow it will be 44 years of pretending to be on this stage)
prior to that I thought that people were actually smarter than me rather than just wielding scripts.
since then it does not matter that much - I immerse in what interests me, and attempt to amuse others with the results.
I figure that we have a terrific opportunity to contribute our stuff in a kareokee style:
i.e. briefly take the stage,
perform our thing,
accept applause or derision
and get back among the drunks...
then repeat...
to avoid boredom find what you do and where you are interesting.
the mystery continuously unravels.
this tradition is not competitive, competitive traditions really should be left with the troglodytes.
--------------------
 _  🧠 _ 
|
capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: redgreenvines]
#6360963 - 12/12/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I'm baffled by knowledge myself. For example when I watch a football game, I always follow what the coach says before the game. He talks about doing this or doing that, I follow what hes talking about, and understand the concept that he's trying to get across, but when the game starts the exact opposite happens, its one thing to understand concepts its another thing to implement those concepts into practical application. To me alot of academics is geared towards knowledge thats interesting, but has little practical use in performing a certain function. I say that sometimes prioritizing is need, you need to be able to exactly understand what your looking for, what is your root cause? Sometimes we become too subjective in the objective world. Like someone said is it about getting respect of your peers or is it about accomplishing your goals and furthering yourself on personal level.
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6361039 - 12/12/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
"So I ask myself, and I ask you all, is an unquenchable thirst for knowledge a healthy path on which one should set out?"
A triple YES, here !
Never let this thirst (and its applications in theoretical and practical learning) go and with my 'twice your' age, I promise you, you one day will get to the edge, where so much knowledge is offered to you, which you became able to look upon, able to unlock from blended reality, through your/this mindful path, that you will get problems to carry this 'all', which in personal perspective 'never' was, is and will be enough
This path carries itself for human beings that constantly make this choice and only the danger of falling apart is raising over the time.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6361408 - 12/12/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
is an unquenchable thirst for knowledge a healthy path 
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
The_Dude108
Stranger
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 5
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6361616 - 12/12/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
(Mosis: I pm'd you this message as well to make sure you got it and to get a dialog going)
I can relate. Over the years I've done similar exploring and would like to offer some new resources. Let me know which ones you are familiar with so I can suggest more resources or a focus:
-Anything by J. Krishnamurti
his writings are unmatched. He's also done a few books with David Bohm. If you arnt familiar with Bohm then you are in for a treat, which brings me to...
-'The Holographic Universe' by Michael Talbot
largely based on the work of David Bohm
-Anything by Ken Wilber (THE foremost thinker/philosopher of our time... really)
'Boomeritis' is a great intro. So is 'A brief history of everything'. He published a book called 'a theory of everything' which is a general overview of his work, but it doesnt go into much detail at all, its more of a glossary for the other 27 books that he's written
-'Cutting through spiritual materialism' by Chogyam Trungpa
a great book to get familiar with tibetan buddhism. Some serious insights.
-'Mans search for meaning' by Victor E. Frankle
A firsthand account of life in a concentration camp. A refreshing look at life. This book is short, an easy read, and extremely profound... you will never look at life the same again.
hope this helps... let me know what you think.
|
redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery
Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: The_Dude108]
#6361696 - 12/12/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe you could turn to the realm of feelings to give the knowledge you have acquired some additional width and depth. I read and study a lot and for a while had problems connecting to other people, until I realized most people don’t talk to get new information from each other or to show how smart they are, but merely to connect to each other on emotional level. Head is good. But heart is better.
--------------------
 "Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
|
TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer
Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6362970 - 12/12/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
An unquenchable thirst for knowledge can be like a double edged blade in that on one hand this thirst will bring you to know many things, but on the other hand it will never be enough to fully satisfy you unless and until you change your perception on a few things. First you must accept the waking moment and accept that life is truly a gift, so that you become content and happy. Once you reach this point you can then pursue interests knowing that the act of pursuing this knowledge is all the fulfillment you will need. What I'm trying to say is embrace every moment along your path so that your path does not become just an ends to a mean, for the path itself is one of the most beautiful things there is.
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6363538 - 12/12/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Whereas you (and I) require certain types of marketable knowledge in order to meet survival needs, and we may have an above average degree of curiosity about the phenomenal universe ('What DOES it look like to human eyes at the event horizon of a known form entering a black hole? - for example  ) - nevertheless, THIS type of knowledge will never result in fulfillment.
You are speaking of episteme, but perhaps what you seek is gnosis.
Gnosis is arrived at through mystical experience. Mystical experience may result from the proper application of pure reason or pure inquiry as in Jnana [pronounced 'gyan'] Yoga - the Yoga of Knowledge (see Sri Ramana Maharshi). The mystical event in turn elaborates a different metaphysic for the experiencer and metaphysics is that branch of philosophy which attempts to answer the question "What is Reality?," that brunt of countless hippy jokes from back in my day - usually relating to LSD.
Do not confuse 'gnosis' with 'gnosticism.' Gnosis is spiritual Knowledge attained via transrational, mystical experience. Mysticism is 'the art of attaining Union with Reality' [Evelyn Underhill].
--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
Karmatron
Kundalini Kid
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Planet Zuyua
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: TacticalBongRip]
#6363645 - 12/12/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Like others here, I can relate. I'm a physics student too, so we have that in common. This summer was my first time in the "workplace" with other physicists and doctors, which was a real trip. When I started working with them, it was a bit of a shock because they seemed to know so much and communicate their ideas so effectively, and they wanted me to come up to their level and participate. But once I went out for beers with them, worked with them for a few weeks, etc., I realized that they're just regular people. I stopped being intimidated by them and started to really want to listen to them... I eventually even showed them a few new things!
Anyway, the point of my story is that you shouldn't constantly compare yourself to others as a way of building your confidence. Some competition with your peers is healthy, but you'll go crazy if you take it too seriously.
Try to cultivate your sense of humility and be open to any knowledge anyone has to give you, but also don't be afraid to question anything anyone says. Manners will take you far, so I hope your momma raised you right. If she didn't, you might be able to learn the more subtle nuances of interpersonal interaction, with practice.
I'm a little older than you and I feel like i've "been there", so hopefully my advice is useful to you.
And in answer to your question, definitely yes! What's the alternative?
There's actually some good advice to be found on this site. And some bad. Decide for yourself what the difference is and you should be fine.
|
aelephant
Stranger
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 311
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Karmatron]
#6364106 - 12/12/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
All quests are in vain; that is the nature of the game. We live and die and in the end all that matters at every point along the way is what you choose to matter to you.
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it."
There is no end-point to knowledge. Feasibly it can grow and grow indefinitely, just as a person can. Your focus on your past level of knowledge and potential future level of knowledge seems to be what frustrates you. There will always be those who have more focused knowledge than you, but by virtue of being YOU, you have knowledge that no one else can ever have.
--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine
|
Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6364162 - 12/12/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Just continue learning as much as you can everyday, and pretty soon you'll be one of those "few" putting other people down for their ignorance.
Not that it matters. I like the title of your post, and feel the exact same way. The point of knowledge isn't to become elite or arrogant with it, and anything we create with it is only temporary until it's superceded or destroyed by the passage of time. In fact, everything is in vain, but people expect knowledge to somehow hold itself to a higher standard.
--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
|
Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6364766 - 12/13/06 02:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain
... : Well, is it?
|
Chemiker
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 367
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: Mosis]
#6364829 - 12/13/06 03:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I'll tell you where you went wrong: Wikipedia. Don't read that. Anyone can change it.
No, but seriously, I'm not sure I understand what is bothering you so much. All knowledge has to lie on assumptions. Science assumes that we all can observe pretty much the same things and that we live in a single reality, knowable by observation. No matter how you slice it, you have to assume (except for: "I think, therefore I am." Which doesn't mean that you are what you think you are or that your senses give you reliable information; it simply tells you that you exist - and that relies on the assumption that logic is metaphysically valid).
If seeking knowledge makes you happy, then go for it. If ignorance is bliss for you, then remain ignorant. Why are you asking us?
What's open-mindedness? I think it's simply the willingness to accept that you could be wrong.
I am by no means the type of person to interpret my psychedelic drug trips in mystical terms. I'm an arrogant scientist, but I once experienced what I call "Enlightenment" (yes, with a capital "E") while on LSD. I won't describe the experience in detail, but it was an experience which demonstrated the limits of my knowledge to me. It was all about endless possibilities and not knowing anything for sure. I embraced that. Though I come off as a know-it-all jackass, underneath it all there's a person who accepts that I can't really be sure about anything and that all experience is mysterious. That's a wonderful thing to me. If it frightens you or upsets you, there's nothing I can do to reassure you that your knowledge is in anyway meaningful.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I feel that my quest for knowledge is in vain [Re: aelephant]
#6365077 - 12/13/06 07:36 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
aelephant said:
All quests are in vain; that is the nature of the game. We live and die and in the end all that matters at every point along the way is what you choose to matter to you.
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it."
There is no end-point to knowledge. Feasibly it can grow and grow indefinitely, just as a person can. Your focus on your past level of knowledge and potential future level of knowledge seems to be what frustrates you. There will always be those who have more focused knowledge than you, but by virtue of being YOU, you have knowledge that no one else can ever have.
Awesome perspective. (like mine ) Welcome to the Shroomery.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
Grav
NiGGy
WaveRider
World Spirit
Zero7a1
Swami