|
 SapphireCat
Seeker
Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
|
 Psychedelics + Buddhism 
#6304273 - 11/20/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Hey just searched the forum and haven't seen anything regarding this, so i thought I'd bring it up.
I am not a practitioner of Buddhism so my knowledge is pretty vague, but i have always found it a fascinating religion. I haven't read about Buddhism since i started psychedelics but just stumbled among some things today that i thought were interesting and seemed to go hand in hand with psychedelics.
I have heard that Buddhists don't believe in intoxicating themselves and the Buddhists I've talked to would put psychedelics under that category aswell. Yet psychedelics have taught me that my opinion is based only on my experiences (my initial opinion that is) but since psychedelics I've started forming my opinion then i take a step back, hear others opinions on the matter at hand and then just let it wash over me to see if i can discover a pattern. Yet even when i find this pattern i know that even if only one person in the world doesn't show this pattern, that the pattern is a false illusion.
I asked a Buddhist what his thoughts on conflicts between religions were, and raised the question if it was worth following a certain path and believing it was the only true way. He gave me an analogy:
Consider a basket of fruit, inside oranges, pears, apples, etc. Imagine that these symbolize religions. The argument of which fruit is the tastiest arises. Yet this is all down to the individuals perception. Now consider Buddhism as the basket of fruit. It's relationship with the fruit is pretty clear, it holds it. Yet they are completely different objects that usually would not be categorized together.
He then continued to explain, that if you are a Buddhist, it is not against your religion to study other religions, that as long as your mind remained open it's not a contradictory practice at all.
I just found that the way this Buddhist presented it to me, with the ideals and everything seemed very related to the psychedelic mindframe. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? Any buddhists here that can give their views?
-SaCa
--------------------
Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato
|
 Mezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6304308 - 11/20/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I practiced formal Zen for 2 years and was almost completely abstinent from all drug use while I did, not because I felt like drugs were bad or a poison or anything like that, but merely because I was getting so much of what I had gotten before from LSD and MDMA from meditation alone.
I think that the precepts of Buddhism that give strict prescriptions of certain actions you should or should not partake in are really there to get you started on the path. If you think you can have an honest and devoted practice and still smoke weed on a regular basis, you may be wrong. I found that I got the best "work" done when I was following a strict diet, going to sleep at an early hour, and practicing meditation for a few hours a day (1-2) with a longer session once a week (3 hours).
I haven't really been practicing Zen for the last 3 years, but have never lost touch with what I gained from it. I think if you're being drawn to Buddhism, you should definitely go at it with all your energy. Think hard, and consider what behaviors best lets you accomplish your needs.
If you find that psychedelics are necessary to continue on your path of self discovery, then consider that, evaluate that, and decide what you will about it.
I found that the wonderment I got from drugs was diminished after having similarly enlightening experiences in trance or meditation states, not in a sense that it diminished the usefulness of psychedelics as medicines, but a strengthening of the mind as a tool to unlock itself, apart from being shattered open by chemical means.
Hope these words resonate well with you!
Also, check out Phillip Kapleau's and Dogen's writing and Alan Watts' lectures, all of which are available at least to a degree on the net.
|
SapphireCat
Seeker
Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: Mezcal]
#6304365 - 11/20/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for your reply, really helped sort my mind. I dont believe that drugs are the only way to find yourself, just have been my medium for the last few years.
I will deffinately read into those that you have recommended. I think i'll give drugs a rest for awhile and explore it deeper. In the last while the cultivation side of shrooms gave me more peace than the actual trip, so I guess i'll continue that part of it. Before today, most buddhists i have come across were fairly focused on buddhism as a strict religion where the teachings of psychedelics are disillusional, but after it was presented to me in such an open way i think I see it more as a different path with the same goals i had with psychedelics.
Again thanks for your words, I'll see where this path takes me for awhile.
--------------------
Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte 
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6307575 - 11/28/06 12:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I think that you're objectivizing both Buddhism and psychedelics into something which they cannot be made into since these are both things and not concepts. You might say Buddhism is just concepts, to which I may respond that it's actually more of a lifestyle. I might know some old hippies who are Buddhists so it seems the two can work together. But the two things are not really things, so both can be entirely reconciled by the quick relaxation of all concepts into the nonconceptuality of the basic mind at rest. Ie., the best way to reconcile dualisms is in fact to forget them. Buddhism is less things which started as nothing and became something then psychedelics which starts with some substance but which then leaves nothing which is then taken and made into something, thus psychedelics are something whereas Buddhism really just isn't.
--------------------
...or something
|
CosmicFunGuy
ॐconsciousnessॐ
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 2,127
Loc: ∞
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6307998 - 11/28/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
you should check out the book, "zig, zag, zen: buddhism and psychedelics" it's edited by: allan hunt badiner and alex grey, with foreward by: Stephen batchelor, it has several accounts from many different perspectives on this topic, probably one of the greatest collection of accounts regarding the matter actually.
--------------------
♫ ♪ In the garden of many fields, there is no me or you. There is no right or wrong. There is no up or down. There is no black or white. Everyone is the plow man. Everyone is the seed. Everyone harvests and everyone yields. In the garden of many fields, everyone is one with one love and one love is one with everyone. ♪ ♫
lyrics from: Transglobal Underground - Eyeway Souljah (from Psychic Karaoke)
|
SapphireCat
Seeker
Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: CosmicFunGuy]
#6308382 - 11/28/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
thanks for the book recommendation tickettothemoon.
eve69: Think i may need to look at your post again when i'm not so sleepy, i feel if i respond too indepth now, that i may have missed some vital point in your words.
just a few questions that i don't think sleep and a further read will help grasp: are you saying that with psychedelics, we build on this nothing that it creates?
And "Buddhism is less things which started as nothing and became something" I could be wrong here but i tthink you are addressing the actual religion here(The phsyical part as such) and with the psychedelics you seem to be talking about the effects(the mental side as such)
Now comparing the physical and mental seems to me like comparing an egg and a spoon. Like they'Re both there and usually found in a kitchen, but that's as much of a comparison as we can give.
In relation to what i think you said: the kitchen which is the link of the egg and the spoon, is the link spirituality between buddhism the religion and the pschedelic mind state.
Again i'm pretty tired at the moment, so this could all be a load of rubbish, but if you could try go into a bit more detail of what you mean, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for everyone's post at that.
--------------------
Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
|
 Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6320777 - 11/30/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I meant that psychedelics are substances which make experiences which people build upon. Experiences are really nothing though. Buddhism was an experience, then it became into a way of life. So also psychedelics became a way of life. I guess my point is that psychedelics is materialist or substantialist whereas Buddhism is ultimately substanceless and of the essence. Though there also is the union of all in present experience and in this key turn one may open the door of the divine right now! How fucking awesome is that! Thus the divine or highest thing may be reflected in these precious psychedelics which open ones eyes. Time should not be wasted. My take is I love both, but I trust my experiences as against the litmus standard of The Buddha. If I am not like that in compassion then I must work harder.
--------------------
...or something
|
Quoiyaien
><<<<0>>>><
Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: eve69]
#6321070 - 11/30/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Simply put:
Buddhism is a path to truth,
Psychedelics are also a path to truth.
Buddhism we have the realized master,
Psychedelics we have the shaman.
I think of all buddhist sects, that Zen seems to most parallel the psychedelic experience. There is no cosmology whatsoever, just insight gained from direct experience. Harmony is the natural order of things and when our ego's get out of the way, everything falls into perfect balance. The insights from psychedelic experiences seem to come from the absence of self, and in Zen, insights come the exact same way.
The self is an illusion, both paths confirm this. There are many other paths to realizing truth, and they are all a blessing to this world.
 Peace
|
ShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: Quoiyaien]
#6321305 - 11/30/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Quoiyaien said:
Simply put:
Buddhism is a path to truth,
Psychedelics are also a path to truth.
Buddhism we have the realized master,
Psychedelics we have the shaman.
I think of all buddhist sects, that Zen seems to most parallel the psychedelic experience. There is no cosmology whatsoever, just insight gained from direct experience. Harmony is the natural order of things and when our ego's get out of the way, everything falls into perfect balance. The insights from psychedelic experiences seem to come from the absence of self, and in Zen, insights come the exact same way.
The self is an illusion, both paths confirm this. There are many other paths to realizing truth, and they are all a blessing to this world.
Peace
well said! 
--------------------
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
 Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6322148 - 11/30/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
subconsciousness
Stranger
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 38
Loc: inside the mothership
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
|
Although Buddhism forbids the use of drugs to its followers, it is interesting to note that many of the hippies during the sixties came to Buddhism and Hinduism after they explored psychedelics such as LSD. Richard Alpert, for example, worked with Timothy Leary on research into LSD and psilocybin before he went off to India, where he met his guru and was renamed "Ram Dass." Lama Surya Das, who is a convert to Tibetan Buddhism, was also known to use psychedelics, though he now frowns upon indulging in them. I think the connection is that both psychedelics and Eastern religions are focused on the mind, especially Hinduism and Buddhism.
I guess the hippies discovered that yoga and meditation are a much safer way of exploring the mind than psychedelics (though it takes years of practice to get from meditation what you could from a hit of LSD). I don't know, that's just my own speculation.
--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times."
--Bill Hicks
"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
--P.J. O'Rourke
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
|
I'm 53 years old and have been using psychedelics since 1971. Today, it is rare to get new insights from these sacred substances, just more energy to intensify my everyday awareness of God. I've met Ran Dass and Tim Leary (twice), and I have written correspondances with Dr. Hofmann. Buddhas are sometimes depicted with 'medicine bowls' on their laps. On my bronze Yab-Yum statue, I glued a ruby onto the bowl, it is my birthstone and it commemorates an LSD-induced Enlightenment experience I had on Independence Day 1973 - 5 days before my 20th birthday. "Moksha Medicine," to quote Huxley's term, is not about mere intoxication, it is about Moksha - Liberation.
Peace Out,
MtG
--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 6 months, 8 days
|
Re: Psychedelics + Buddhism [Re: SapphireCat]
#6330817 - 12/03/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
www.tricycle.com
their magazine had an issue on psychedelics about 11 years ago...
--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck 
Red Vein Kratom 
Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds 
Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Mono Tub Substrate
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 3 all )
Buddha1
wang_chung00
RedNucleus
Asante
deCypher