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Offlinefeza4
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Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
First time grower....
    #6228324 - 10/30/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Alrighty people,
As the title so blatantly states... this will be my first time growing. This post is really really long basically outlining my entire plan of action for this idea. Decided to embark on this journey about a month ago and since then I've been reading absolutely EVERY peice of info and looked at EVERY picture I can get my fingers and computer to. Just wanted to introduces myself and say hi in that I'll now be venturing into the forums more often now.

Should be getting the spore syringe tom via UPS and plan on inoculating tomorrow asap. (Been anxious as hell to start this already, but no worries, all possible sterile precedures will be watched closely, no rushing past the most important steps). Plan on using the PF jar method being that it seems to be the best foundation for a beginner. I have a PC which i plan to use for about 1.5 hours for the jars. Getting only one B+ syringe tom (looking back i think I shoudl have gotten two, but It'll do for now). I have a really nice clean room/closet set-up. About 3ft deep, 3.5 feet across and about 8ft tall with 2 larger rubbermaids for the water heating with a smalled tub inside to hold the inoculated jars. A dozen 1/2 pints with a verm/BR mix/coffee water.

Tons of bleach and air cleaner for the room and me include chlorine bleach, ozium air cleaner, lysol air/surface cleaner, and tons of the alcohol base hand sanitizer, dusk masks, and hats. Along with all this i duct taped all the posible open parts of the room. Alogn with all this I put weather stripping along the whole inside of the door and put a piece of wood nailed to the floor on the inside right in the door jam with the weather stripping so basically when the door is closed the entire room is sealed. Every day I've been spraying the air in the room with the ozium and the lysol to start cutting down on the airborns. The carpet outside the room has had alcohol/water mix sprayed on it before opening the door, along with ozium in the air all around the room leading to the closet. (Call it OCD but I'm just being really really nerotic about the contams)

Question 1. The inoculation techniques seem to be all over the place here. Between the oven method, the alcohol swab over the needle at all times, and the flaming in between each jar... it can be a little internal debate about what should be done. I'm planning on using the alcohol swab over the needle the whole time. As much as everyone here says not to venture off into our own "ideas", i was thinking of soaking two sets of alcohol swabs and put both sets over the holes of the jars the second the tinfoil comes off of them. and just inocculating right through the swabs so when i take the needle out, the alcohol swab is still covering the hole. When i go to put the tinfoil back on i can quickly remove the swabs and throw on the tinfoil, minimizing the air near the open holes and hopefully minimizing the contamination. Input????

Question number 2. I originally bought whole brown rice grains and wanted to know if putting it in a blender and making a finer grain would work. Its not as fine as a flour, (which i can readily get if this wont work)I just wanted to know if it's worth it to go for that walk to the store (sorta lazy about walking down there and just curious on any input... wouldnt be surprised to get a litle flamed for the stupidity of the question).

When the jars are fully colonized i was going to do the "cold bath" in the fridge and finish with a wash before putting them into the fruiting chamber. I wanted to try both methods of just letting the PF cakes fruit themselfs as well as breaking up the cakes and doing the wet verm layer, substrate layer, and dry verm layer and let the whole thing fruit. If I should just wait and do the cakes I'll do that. Read up on the larger yields and instantly thought that was the best idea, which I very quickly realized wasnt the best choice being this is my first time.

Wow, such a long post but i wanted to outline my plan of action and get absolutely ANY feedback you all can offer. Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing.

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OfflineMycoGlowFlow
between the walls
Male

Registered: 05/20/01
Posts: 1,102
Loc: michigan
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228456 - 10/30/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

the alcohol swab over the innoc holes seems kind of unnecessary.


and yes i would recommend grinding the rice. the more surface area you have the faster and more thouroughly the mycilium will grow on it.


--------------------
(the key-strokes that have completed everything ever typed on this user name have been a random coincidence, except for the words in this notation)

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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
mooch
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
Re: First time grower.... [Re: MycoGlowFlow]
    #6228496 - 10/30/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i like to hold a towel soaked in alcohol around the needle as i stick it into the inoc. hole.


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OfflineMightyCelt
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Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 59
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228529 - 10/30/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

As far as innoculating goes, I'll shed what light I can.  My friend just recently started his first grow, and he has had zero contam problems.  He works in a pharmaceuticals clean lab, and is trained on proper aseptic technique, sterile fields, etc.  If you can get access to a pack of a dozen or so needles (individually packed, sterile) then you could do like he did, and change needles twice a jar.  It takes a lil bit longer, and goes through a lot of needles, but by putting on a completely sterile needle every other time you enter a jar, you greatly reduce your chaces of contams.  Also, building even a rudimentary glove box will help DRASTICALLY.  A box of any sort with one open side works fine.  cover as much of the inside as you can with saran, and cover the open side witha curtain of saran, or a plastic sheet of visqueen-type material with holes cut for your arms.  Place your jars inside, and thouroughy wet all surfaces with 70% IPA (isopropyl alcohol aka rubing alcohol).  Allow surfaces to dry (it is the drying action that causes the cells of microorganisms to burst and die).  Wear latex gloves, or rubber cleaning gloves.  As far as actually innoculating them, heres what he did.  He marked on the top surface of the foil with a marker where the holes in the metal lids were.  Then instead of lifting the foil, he just stabbed the needle right through the foil, then taped over the hole with electrical tape as soon as the syringe came out.

As far as flour goes, he ground his own in a coffee grinder, and it worked fine.  Not sure how a blender would do, but theres one sure way to find out :smile: 

regarding the cakes vs. casing question, you could always do what my friend did.  He is fruiting his first 5 or 6 cakes as cakes, then plans on using the rest of his batch of a dozen to making casings out of.  That way he gets the experience of doing both methods, and can see for himself which works best for him. 

Damn, I don't talk much in person, but I get fucking WORDY when I get on this bulletin board, huh?

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InvisibleToTheExtreme, LOL
That Bug up yourAss
Male

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 847
Loc: Where there's fresh powde...
Re: First time grower.... [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #6228531 - 10/30/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I flame it, then wipe it with alc.


--------------------

What can I say??? I like this shit!!
You've been slissed!
despisedicon said:
We all know the reasons why 50 Cent and Korn are gay faggots. You suck at life and I'm not talking about the board game fella.

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OfflineMycoGlowFlow
between the walls
Male

Registered: 05/20/01
Posts: 1,102
Loc: michigan
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: ToTheExtreme, LOL]
    #6228549 - 10/30/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i do the same


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(the key-strokes that have completed everything ever typed on this user name have been a random coincidence, except for the words in this notation)

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Invisiblecreamcorn
mad scientist
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
Trusted Cultivator
Re: First time grower.... [Re: MightyCelt]
    #6228588 - 10/30/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MightyCelt said:
As far as innoculating goes, I'll shed what light I can.  My friend just recently started his first grow, and he has had zero contam problems.  He works in a pharmaceuticals clean lab, and is trained on proper aseptic technique, sterile fields, etc.  If you can get access to a pack of a dozen or so needles (individually packed, sterile) then you could do like he did, and change needles twice a jar.




holy freekin hell man 2 needles per jar?  ive done 2 dozen straight before (LC fed from a 60cc syringe)... with an old pre-used needle! just wipe with alcohol between jars, keep covered inbetween inoculations.

anyway, advice to orginal poster: relax.  sterile procedure is important... but almost everybody goes extremely overboard their first few times.  use common sense but don't break your back cleaning every nook and cranny and choke yourself to death on various cleaning fumes. 

work quickly, work intelligently, use clean hands, clean work surface, draft-free room, don't breathe on your work, and voila, 95+% success rates.  i wipe my work area down with soapy water, and i wash my hands, and that's about it.  dont even own a can of lysol or oust or whatever.  its been months and dozens of jars since the last random fluke contaminate in one of them...  a needle is an awful small surface for contaminates to land on, especially if you work quickly and keep it covered when not in use.  easy.

and if you decide to case anything, you got a bit more reading to do.  (well i guess you got plenty of time for that yet huh?)... just a hint, you certainly got some of that mixed up - namely the "dry" verm part. :wink:

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Offlinefeza4
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228815 - 10/30/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

haha. Thanks for all the responses and all the info/recommendations.

As for the dozen needles, that seems a little over for my patience and budget, but definitely a good idea to keep on mind.

Creamcorn- figured a first timer would over-do it at first as im sure most of you experienced growers did. As for the working quickly, I think I'll be able to do that being that my roomate will be assisting me in accomplishing this. We both know that a spray down with cleaner and and a quick shower before hand will be done along with a dusk mask and hats. And I knew I had something mixed up the second I posted with the casing method. I have a really basic idea about it and you can count on me asking tons of random questions concerning it (after fully investigating it of course).

Thanks again guys, appreciate everything youve given and lookin forward to just learning as much as possible.
Rock on peoples.

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Invisiblecreamcorn
mad scientist
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228835 - 10/30/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

actually, the roommate thing would be a major blow to sterile procedure. :wink:

as mushroom cultivators, it is the cultivator themselves who are the biggest source of contamination.... i'd definitely suggest keeping it a one person job... its a too many hands in the pot spoils the soup sorta thing...

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InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
Male

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228901 - 10/30/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I used to go overboard until my glovebox went up in flames and my arms went up in flames with it.Than I switched to bleach solution and I have had hardly no contamination issues since.Strangely enough when I was dousing the whole room in Lysol and oust I had contamination on nearly everything

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Offlinetonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 1,234
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6228928 - 10/30/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I sent you a PM

I would def go with a GB
The reason you see so many teks is that different procedures work for different people
Don't ask why, they just do
You got to find out what works for you and that can only happen thru experience

GL growing

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InvisibleUnderNose
all out of bubble gum
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 1,613
Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228985 - 10/30/06 10:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with most of what CC said, The cultivator themselves who are the biggest source of contamination.
Unless you are both 110% sure in what you are doing.
I have a friend that helps me harvest,clean & dry shrooms. But at this point sterility is less important.

And holey shit man so many needles so many chemicals.

I looked at the PF thing but went straight to using WBS spawn to coir(I have no poo :sad:)
My first ever grow was Z-strain casings. Using grain or WBS
with 1 syringe/needle, Rubbing alcohol, glen20(ethanol),bleach.
Even this amount of chems made me feel sick sometimes, If you breath in to much bleach, aerosol ethanol whatever your lungs will start to melt.

With a bit more reading you should be able to do cased PF cakes or better still using grain or Wild Bird Seed, It's cheap too.


--------------------
LAGM 2.022

:dna::dna:

Edited by UnderNose (10/30/06 10:24 PM)

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Offlinefeza4
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: UnderNose]
    #6229353 - 10/30/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Wowers... so many responses to the newb... thanks.

Im building a glove box first thing in the a.m. and its taking every ounce of sense in me to not get up right now and do it... actually i think I'm about to do just that, we'll see.

And a bottle of bleach/water is definitley in the works. Tomorrow I should be getting the spore syringe in the mail and I plan to have the jars all PC'ed by then so HOPEFULLY I'll be able to open te tube and take the syringe into my clean room and inoculate on the spot. Ahhh getting pumped.

Just b/c I'm sorta lazy and most of you probably know it by heart, whats the amt of verm,BRF, and water going into each of my 1/2 pint jars? Sorry to inconvenience anyone but just not really in the mood to click the search button...laziness.

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InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
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Registered: 06/11/06
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229410 - 10/31/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Please for the love of all things holy don't do pf tek,despite what anyone says it is actually more difficult than using grain and you will be so disappointed in the yield,You wont realize that you are because if you haven't grown before you will be excited to just have grown anything but after you move on you will be so mad that you wasted your time and energy on something so futile and useless.Do this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4577994 trust me,you will be so happy you did.Remember my words when I say pf tek= :suicide:  :slitwrist:  :suicide:  :slitwrist: Best of luck to you,Happy Halloween

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InvisibleUnderNose
all out of bubble gum
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 1,613
Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6229470 - 10/31/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:yesnod:
What he said.


--------------------
LAGM 2.022

:dna::dna:

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Offlinefeza4
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6229485 - 10/31/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Umm... wow. That is a complete change in the original game plan... although I wouldn;t mind mixing thigs up. OHHHH and if you were to do it like this, I can make less jars to begin from the syringe and then inoculate multiple other jars of grain.

And this is suppossed to be EASIER?? than doing the pf tek method? I only ask cause this is the "recommended" method for starters. But if I get enough of a push in this direction I might as well do it like this. But is the full 24 hours completely necassary? Was sorta looking forward to innoculating tomorrow before my midterm... but I can wait for after (830ish) or even wednesday at like 10am. Ive been all antsy in the pantsy to get this show on the road. Sorry... still a newb here... just anxious, but willing to do it right the first time instead of "leanring from my mistakes".

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InvisibleDihnekis
Stranger
Male
Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229598 - 10/31/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do grains. So easy.

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InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
Male

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229898 - 10/31/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

feza4 said:
Umm... wow. That is a complete change in the original game plan... although I wouldn;t mind mixing thigs up. OHHHH and if you were to do it like this, I can make less jars to begin from the syringe and then inoculate multiple other jars of grain.

And this is suppossed to be EASIER?? than doing the pf tek method? I only ask cause this is the "recommended" method for starters. But if I get enough of a push in this direction I might as well do it like this. But is the full 24 hours completely necassary? Was sorta looking forward to innoculating tomorrow before my midterm... but I can wait for after (830ish) or even wednesday at like 10am. Ive been all antsy in the pantsy to get this show on the road. Sorry... still a newb here... just anxious, but willing to do it right the first time instead of "leanring from my mistakes".



Yes it is actually easier,and yes you should soak for at least 24 hrs do germinate the nasties so they die in the PC,you are going to be antsy with anticipation but just Be patient and you will be more than glad you did :thumbup:

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Offlinefeza4
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6230978 - 10/31/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Alrighty... update time. Got back from my local health food store and am very sad to say that they dont carry rye anything. Nothing to be seen. Just wondering if this method can be done simply with a diffterent medium. I read corn somewhere ( please dont flame me for this, I just remember reading it somewhere). Anything that can replace rye....?

In some better news, I just finished building my glove box. For those who recommended them along the way... wow, so easy to throw together if your not a complete dumb-ass. And if your sitting there contemplating whether to build one or not... definitely do it. For the 30 minutes I put in, it seems like it was completely worth it. A cardboard box, some layers of saran wrap, and some duct tape later... we have a glove box.

Thanks for all the help concerning my newb questions and concerns. Any advice or help is always appreciated.

-Rock on guys.

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Offlinefeza4
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6231471 - 10/31/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Somebody please. I'm sorry to push this but if theres another grain I can use besides rye I'll have to soak it so I'd have to do that tonight into tomorrow and I wanted to innoc. today... so I'm already delaying it. Went back and found the corn thing to be Popcorn. Anything else. The irdseed i read somewhere??

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