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OfflinePed
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So Much Suffering
    #6222681 - 10/29/06 01:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In understanding ourselves deeply, we begin to understand others deeply.

Lately I've been coming to terms with the ways that I suffer, and the ways that I avoid paying attention to that suffering. There are deep-seated habits of mind that constantly churn out this suffocating cloud of mental pain. Upon arriving at this, I began to feel sorry for myself, conceiving myself to be the only person who carries such a heavy emotional burden.

However, this self-centred feeling has collapsed under the weight of the inevitable realization that I'm not alone. In coming to terms with the fact that I undergo painful experiences every day, I've suddenly discovered that these same feelings, perhaps of varying flavours, pervade the lives of all the people in my life to varying degrees. Sure, some might have it worse than others, but all the same: suffering is a staple of being conscious and alive, and it is as much a climactic factor in socieites as carbon dioxide is in our atmosphere.

I would emphasize that this has been a profound shift in thinking, although I can't say it has preciptated any change in my often self-defeating attitude. In fact, this new empathy has made my heart sink: it offers no relief. There is so much suffering in the world, so much unhappiness, and so much denial, addiction, and such a strong sense of purposelessness. Nothing more would fill me with joy than to wave a magic wand (I prefer scepters), and make it all disappear. Not because this would qualify me as a saviour figure, but because it would mean we could actually set about the business of connecting with each other, and figuring out the mystery behind our presence here.

I'm known to say, "What right do I have to become happy when so many others have not even the opportunity to contemplate how happiness is achieved?" Is this some sort of extremely deluded notion of self-sacrifice? Am I getting off on nobility? Am I actually so repugnant as to witness the immense suffering of others, and then skew it into some ego-gratifying trip?

Thoughts? Experiences? Insights?

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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Ped]
    #6222720 - 10/29/06 01:46 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ram Dass's guru once said "Suffering brings me closer to god."

He couldn't be more right in my experience, it seems our suffering is much needed. It's the fuel for the fire that burns with the desire to become FREE. It promotes endless change, I mean if we we are perfectly happy then nothing would need to change right? Suffering = learning, and without it we would have no need to learn.

Don't feel guilty for your happiness when you see people suffering more than you, its not selfish. It's ambiguous to judge others suffering, for example so many people in 3rd world country's are actually happier than us, despite their living conditions. The best you can do is dedicate your life to be joyful, because ultimately you share your happiness and spread your love through the world, and that cant be done if your drowning in self doubt.

anyway thats a quick word from me
thanks

Peace  :heart:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

Edited by Amethyst (10/29/06 01:51 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Amethyst]
    #6222907 - 10/29/06 06:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

in another fugue last night, I was reviewing the yin and yang, the physical principles of the universe and of consciousness and I fell into the fear, into the unknowing void, where conjecture no longer comforts.

I went where no versions of god or mathematics can fit, and where both the wise and fools fear to tread, I went beyond creation(s), without any support, and in this emptiness of reason and vision, the connection to all suffering beings was very strong. something like compassion subtly adheres and connects in the voidness.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Ped]
    #6223026 - 10/29/06 07:36 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Based on my expirences I would replace the word suffering with discomfort.

I had to keep telling myself that in certain martial art stances, "Its not pain! It is only uncomfortable! Do not falter, stand strong, it will be over in a few moments." Sometimes, more than others, the discomfort becomes unbearable and thus perceived as pain, and after overcoming that discomfort comes a rush of relief and satisfaction.

The difference between pain and discomfort is physical. Pain is living with a life-threatening cancer, or having your legs broken, or having your dog die, etc...

There is a huge difference between the two. Discomfort, in my opinion, provides much more personal insight into your own boundaries. And concurrently, I'm working on expanding mine (as I was recently informed - are quite limited).


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Ped]
    #6223106 - 10/29/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

extremely deluded notion of self-sacrifice? Am I getting off on nobility? Am I actually so repugnant as to witness the immense suffering of others, and then skew it into some ego-gratifying trip?

Yes, I would say yes. These are the programs that cause suffering in the first place. But in reality they are not "you". That's the good news. If you want to relieve suffering then you have to start with yourself. No other way. To deny yourself is to deny all others. Joy, shared is great relief to a world of woe.

I really know what you mean about comtemplating the immensity of suffering in this dream world. It's truly amazing and humbling. Actually that said nothing really. We are unable to comprehend it until we can fully comprehend it within ourselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Ped]
    #6223586 - 10/29/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Why prevent suffering?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6223599 - 10/29/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Because joy and pleasure feel better. As we have no real idea of what exists beyond this life, why not enjoy it to the best of our abilities?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6223601 - 10/29/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It feels better?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Icelander]
    #6223606 - 10/29/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:rofl:  Is there an echo in here?

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Veritas]
    #6223607 - 10/29/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What if I need to study hard for an exam? Should I endure the stress or do what feels better?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6223617 - 10/29/06 11:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Once you really know what feels better you will know that you are not suffering in the true sense for your exam. Suffering IMO is either physical or ignorance. I don't like either.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6223622 - 10/29/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What is your goal in enduring unpleasantness? If you are working in service of an "enlightened" pleasure (gaining knowledge, earning a degree which gains you entry into your right livelihood, self-actualization), then this will not be suffering.

Suffering (IMO) is caused by identification with our circumstances & rejection of evident reality (aka neurosis). When we believe ourselves to be powerless in the face of an endless stream of things happening to us, we create the experience of suffering. When we say that our reality should be something other than it is, that it is awful that we have to study for this exam, we create the experience of suffering.

Neurosis, irrational beliefs, identification with the events and situations in our lives = suffering.

But you know this...you've read Ellis. He was not a professed hedonist, but he taught the skills necessary to stop making ourselves miserable, and thus spend more time feeling joy and pleasure.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Veritas]
    #6223630 - 10/29/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Good answer.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: So Much Suffering [Re: Ped]
    #6223725 - 10/29/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What right do I have to become happy when so many others have not even the opportunity to contemplate how happiness is achieved?




You may as well ask "what right do I have to deny myself happiness when there is so much suffering in the world already?"

Will your happiness mean that there is less to go around? Will your suffering spare some other being their own suffering?

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