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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
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Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States
    #6152226 - 10/09/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/09/AR2006100901130.html

Quote:


Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States

By Glenn Kessler and Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, October 10, 2006; Page A12

Nearly five years after President Bush introduced the concept of an "axis of evil" comprising Iraq, Iran and North Korea, the administration has reached a crisis point with each nation: North Korea has claimed it conducted its first nuclear test, Iran refuses to halt its uranium-enrichment program, and Iraq appears to be tipping into a civil war 3 1/2 years after the U.S.-led invasion.

Each problem appears to feed on the others, making the stakes higher and requiring Bush and his advisers to make difficult calculations, analysts and U.S. officials said. The deteriorating situation in Iraq has undermined U.S. diplomatic credibility and limited the administration's military options, making rogue countries increasingly confident that they can act without serious consequences. Iran, meanwhile, will be watching closely the diplomatic fallout from North Korea's apparent test as a clue to how far it might go with its own nuclear program.

"Iran will follow very carefully what happens in the U.N. Security Council after the North Korean test," said Robert J. Einhorn, senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). "If the United Nations is not able to act forcefully, then Iran will think the path is clear to act with impunity."

Michael E. O'Hanlon, a Brookings Institution scholar and co-author of the new book "Hard Power: The New Politics of National Security," said the U.S. response to North Korea will have ripple effects. "Iran will certainly watch what happens. North Korea watched what happened with Pakistan and decided that the world didn't punish Pakistan too hard or too long," he said. "Iran will certainly notice if North Korea gets treated with kid gloves."

Political strategists debated the domestic implications of the North Korean test with midterm elections four weeks away. Some Republicans predicted it would take the focus off the Mark Foley congressional page scandal and remind voters that it is a dangerous world best confronted by tough-minded leaders. Some Democrats argued it would be seen as another failure of Bush's foreign policy and moved quickly to try to pin blame on the Republicans. "Is this going to help Republicans?" asked Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.). "The answer to that is absolutely not. This is another significant foreign policy failure for the administration."

In Bush's 2002 State of the Union address, a speech designed to shift the political debate from a battle against al-Qaeda to a possible confrontation with Iraq, the president mentioned North Korea, Iraq and Iran and declared: "States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. . . . In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic."

All three issues came to a head in 2003: The United States invaded Iraq and discovered no weapons of mass destruction; North Korea began to obtain weapons-grade plutonium from fuel rods that had been under international observation; and Iran disclosed that it had made rapid progress with a previously secret uranium-enrichment program.

In contrast to its handling of Iraq, the administration has tried to resolve the North Korean and Iranian nuclear breakouts with diplomacy. But progress has been slow, in part because the United States has been reluctant to hold bilateral talks with either country except within the context of broader talks with other nations.

Former senator Sam Nunn (D-Ga.) faulted the administration for focusing on Iraq first, when greater threats loomed in North Korea and Iran. "We started with Iraq in the 'axis of evil' side, when we thought they did not yet have nuclear weapons, and that sent the signal to others that they better get them quick," he said. "I think we started on the wrong end of that."

The administration launched a full-court press yesterday at the Security Council, proposing elements of a tough resolution that would call for imposing an arms embargo and a series of legally binding U.N. financial and trade sanctions. The United States also called for international inspections of all trade in and out of North Korea to enforce the sanctions.

U.S. officials yesterday were focusing especially closely on the reaction of China, long North Korea's main benefactor. The Chinese government publicly denounced the test in unusually strong language, and a senior U.S. official said the private comments of Chinese officials were equally strong. While China has been reluctant to pressure North Korea, fearing a collapse of the government and mass refugees on its border, "the question is whether a chaotic North Korea is worse than a nuclear North Korea," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the diplomatic sensitivities.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice appears likely to make a trip to the region soon to further build support for a tough response by China, Japan and South Korea. Several experts predicted that although China's leadership is angry enough to support some sanctions, it always will stop short of putting enough pressure on Pyongyang to force its collapse. "Full-up sanctions I don't see happening," said former White House Asia expert Michael J. Green, now at CSIS.

James B. Steinberg, President Bill Clinton's deputy national security adviser and now dean of the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, said the North Korea test will raise a larger question that echoes Ronald Reagan's most famous 1980 campaign line -- "With respect to the axis of evil," Steinberg said, "are you better off today than you were four years ago? . . . It's clear that the answer is we're worse off with respect to the nuclear proliferation problem in both North Korea and Iran than four to six years ago, and I would argue we're worse off in our overall security because of the situation in Iraq."

Staff writer Dafna Linzer contributed to this report.




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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Vvellum]
    #6152305 - 10/09/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Nearly five years after President Bush introduced the concept of an "axis of evil" comprising Iraq, Iran and North Korea.."

tells a lot about a five year old conception..

iraq, check, iran, still working on it, north korea, not right now.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Vvellum]
    #6153405 - 10/10/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States"

Hmmmmmm. Interesting article.

So does this article point out that Bush's assessment was correct?
(Bush was accurate in using the label?)

Isn't he vindicated by events?

Or is the MSM saying they got mad and built nuclear weapons, just because Bush called them "evil"?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6153769 - 10/10/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

did even you read it?

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Vvellum]
    #6153851 - 10/10/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States"

'Nearly five years after President Bush introduced the concept of an "axis of evil" comprising Iraq, Iran and North Korea, the administration has'........

Comes back to haunt U.S.?????. Did they ever go away?

maybe I did not read it Properly. can you give me a Hint?

let me guess

It's Bush's fault!!!!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Vvellum]
    #6156187 - 10/10/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'd be willing to bet a small fortune that our problems with these countries (other than iraq) are actually blowback from things that we haven't been told about.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Konnrade]
    #6156333 - 10/10/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Orly?

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Offlineshroom_me
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Adden]
    #6156833 - 10/11/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hey i know this is completely off topic but S_2 I LOVE those white shrooms what strain are they? Beautiful!!

Edited by shroom_me (10/11/06 12:44 AM)

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6158085 - 10/11/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Each problem appears to feed on the others, making the stakes higher and requiring Bush and his advisers to make difficult calculations, analysts and U.S. officials said. The deteriorating situation in Iraq has undermined U.S. diplomatic credibility and limited the administration's military options, making rogue countries increasingly confident that they can act without serious consequences. Iran, meanwhile, will be watching closely the diplomatic fallout from North Korea's apparent test as a clue to how far it might go with its own nuclear program.



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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6167483 - 10/13/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Comes back to haunt U.S.?????. Did they ever go away?

maybe I did not read it Properly. can you give me a Hint?

let me guess

It's Bush's fault!!!!




Korea saw Bush invade Iraq (one of the axis of evil governments) and wanted a nuke of their own to prevent an American invasion of their country.

Makes perfect seance for them to do it IMO. It is what I would have done if I were Korea's leader.

Is it Bushes fault..........he certainly threw fuel on the fire now didn't he.

Would Korea have a nuke today if they hadn't felt threatened........I doubt it......so, in a way, it is Bushes fault that Korea has a nuke. He bullied them into protecting themselves in the only way they could.

Do you think that we would have invaded Afghanistan or Iraq if we knew that they had nukes?????


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisiblequiver
freedrug
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Registered: 10/25/05
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Vvellum]
    #6167494 - 10/13/06 11:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
did even you read it?




his opinion made sense to me and fits beautifully regarding the article

unlike you he posted his opinion about the article

you just waited with bait to insult his opinion

you should be banned for that,ive seen better men than you'll ever be cop the ban button for the same thing


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: niteowl]
    #6167647 - 10/14/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Korea saw Bush invade Iraq (one of the axis of evil governments) and wanted a nuke of their own to prevent an American invasion of their country.

Makes perfect seance for them to do it IMO. It is what I would have done if I were Korea's leader.

Is it Bushes fault..........he certainly threw fuel on the fire now didn't he.

Would Korea have a nuke today if they hadn't felt threatened........I doubt it......so, in a way, it is Bushes fault that Korea has a nuke. He bullied them into protecting themselves in the only way they could.



I agree with you, niteowl.  Futhermore, in 1994 with Clinton's approval, Carter struck a deal with North Korea where they agreed to freeze their nuclear program in exchange for some fuel oil and two nuclear reactors.  A win-win outcome for both sides.  But in 2002, Bush declared North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil", ending shipments of fuel and cancelling the construction of the promised nuclear reactors.  Any moron could have predicted the outcome.  But the Bush administration apparently didn't. 

North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began developing nuclear explosive devices.  And four years later, BOOM...  :frown:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #6167659 - 10/14/06 12:23 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes now they have a nuke too.

Big freaking deal.

It makes absolutely no difference in the long run.
Many countries have them.
Why is it such a big deal to everyone that Korea has one now too?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: niteowl]
    #6167961 - 10/14/06 02:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the big deal is if they ever sell one to some mad enemy of ours i hope you live in the lucky city that cops it


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: quiver]
    #6169008 - 10/14/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

quiver said:
the big deal is if they ever sell one to some mad enemy of ours i hope you live in the lucky city that cops it



:whatever:

More media driven propaganda.

The fear of a nuclear retaliation will prevent a country form from ever using a nuke on American soil.

Countries don't want nukes as a form of first strike........they want them as a deterrent from being attacked.

Why can't you see this very simple fact.

What do you think will happen to N Korea (or Iran, or any other country for that matter) if they nuked the U.S?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: niteowl]
    #6169127 - 10/14/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The fear of a nuclear retaliation will prevent a country form from ever using a nuke on American soil.




It would help if you would actually read these posts before typing out a kneejerk reply. What part of

"the big deal is if they ever sell one to some mad enemy of ours i hope you live in the lucky city that cops it"

are you having difficulty grasping?




Phred


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Phred]
    #6169148 - 10/14/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What part of....

"The fear of a nuclear retaliation will prevent a country from from ever using a nuke on American soil.

Countries don't want nukes as a form of first strike........they want them as a deterrent from being attacked."

.....are you having trouble grasping?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: niteowl]
    #6169182 - 10/14/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

*Sigh*

Do you honestly not grasp the difference between "country" and "mad enemy"? Is Osama bin Laden a country? Is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed a country?

How can you stand here in front of a forum made up mostly of rational people and pretend the numerous 'splodeydopes out there wouldn't leap at the chance to buy a nuke to use against The Great Satan? Do you have any idea how many orders of magnitude easier -- and more effective -- it would have been for ObL and his Merry Pranksters to have shipped a nuke on a tramp steamer into New York harbor and set it off than to have hijacked four commercial jets and crashed them (well... three out of the four, anyway) into buildings?

The 9/11 Commission's report made a point of stressing that the biggest failure of the US government in protecting America on that day was a lack of imagination. Your comments are proof the lack is not confined to members of the US government.





Phred


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: Phred]
    #6169194 - 10/14/06 02:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If OBL had nuked NY then Afghanistan would be glowing with the radiation of MANY nukes.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' Comes Back to Haunt United States [Re: niteowl]
    #6169250 - 10/14/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You think so? I don't.

There are many people -- yourself included -- who even today still whine about "the US" "invading" Afghanistan. Not carpet-bombing Afghanistan, not blowing up shit at random, just going in there in an attempt to capture ObL and the boys.

You think these people (yourself included) would have accepted multiple nuking of Afghanistan -- not ObL, mind you, but Afghanistan as a country -- just because the attack on New York was done with a nuke rather than airplanes? Not hardly.

But maybe you'll surprise me. Maybe you'll claim you would have supported bombing Afghanistan with multiple nukes under such circumstances.








Phred


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