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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Registered: 11/24/04
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Loc: The Old Continent
THE e'M'pire: An interview with Father William McNamara
    #5972796 - 08/17/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I found this interview at WIE magazine. Some of you might find it interesting. ADD & ADHD warning (extremely long article)! :crazy2:

WIE: Father McNamara, you are a Carmelite monk, a contemplative in one of the most respected monastic traditions in the world. What inspired you to renounce worldly life and set your feet to the path of asceticism and solitude?

FR. WILLIAM MCNAMARA: The original motive, affirmed and reconfirmed  more passionately and intensely over the years, was and is a desire for the  fullness of life. In order to be prepared for and receptive to that onslaught  of life and love that the Creator provides for us in himself and through everything  that is connected with him (because God is not a separate God, he is distinct  and transcendental but not separate) one has to become pure, one has to become  empty, one has to become responsive, one has to become alive and alert to all  the possibilities of living. I wanted that fullness of life and I didn't want  to become halfhearted. I didn't want to get caught in half-truths. I didn't  want to be stymied or seduced by mediocrity, by pseudo-events rather than events.  I wanted the whole thing. I wanted utter reality. I wanted the ultimate. So  I had to renounce whatever seemed to me to be less than real.

WIE: What did you see as being less than real?

WM: I found most communication an impediment to communion. We communicate  so much—a veritable Vesuvius of verbiage—that we don't hear the Word itself.  The truth escapes us. I think that one of the worst pollutions in the world  is verbal pollution.

So I didn't want to be choked by verbal pollution, by a shallow, empty, febrile  kind of talk. I wanted a life that was dominated by and permeated by silence.  And then, out of that matrix of silence, I hoped that the deeper words would  come, the primordial words. But the only words that would be worthwhile would  be those which are connected with the original Word, the Word of God, the Word  that became flesh.

Another thing would be the way reality escapes us, precisely because we are  in such a hurry. We are in a stampede almost constantly. There's no time to  think, there's no time to love, there's no time to be. We're driven to do, do,  do at a rather shallow, superficial level, and that prevents us from being,  which is most important. As Lao Tzu said, "The most important thing to  do is to be."

So that would be another aspect of the search for truth, the search for the  Ultimate. Again, it's communion rather than communication. If communication  sets the stage for communion, that's wonderful communication. If it doesn't,  it's useless. The big thing that every human being is striving for is communion.  And if that is not experienced on all levels—communion with God, communion with  human beings, communion with animals, vegetables, minerals, the earth—then we  experience the terrible affliction of loneliness and isolation. That's what  is dominating this modern society. Everyone's lonely, everyone's isolated. So  we need time to be, we need enough silence to be, we need enough solitude to  be, we need enough good communion with others to be.

WIE: Could you explain exactly how you define "the world" on  the spiritual path?

WM: I find it necessary to distinguish between the world and what I  call the "Mpire"—the world of the three M's: mediocrity, mendacity,  and manipulation. The world that is the earth, the gift God has given us—I would  never renounce that. All I want to do is embrace that and love it and become  more and more a part of it—that objective, wonderful world.

But the Mpire is that aspect of the world that has been used and twisted out  of shape in order to provide the power, pleasure, and prestige of human beings.  The net result of that, down through the centuries, has been an unreal world.  The Mpire is an unreal world. It's made up of a network of mediocrity, manipulation,  and mendacity.

The whole sociopolitical world we live in is dominated by mendacity—the big  lie. The big lie is coming through television, through magazines (not enlightenment  magazines but through many magazines) through propaganda, ideologies. There  is some truth in it, but it's the big lie because it doesn't reveal the ultimate.  And it doesn't evaluate contemporary situations in terms of the ultimate. Therefore  it goes askew.

Then there's mediocrity. Everything is worked out into a system so that there  are no surprises. And God is surprise. God is beyond our conceptions, our images,  our big to-dos. If we are not being surprised constantly, it means we are out  of touch with the real, and we've worked things out simply to be manageable,  to provide us with more power, more convenience, more comfort.

The third aspect is manipulation. I think the biggest problem of society today  is that we let too many things happen to us. We've allowed ourselves to become  usable items for government, for church, for whatever the big power structures  may be. That's manipulation. It happens in respectable, subtle ways. First we  allow television into the home. Then we allow computers, and then because there  is pornography on the Internet, we get used to pornography in the home. It just  becomes absurd, but we've gotten used to it. We are shrinking humanly. We're  not being divinized; we're not being transformed. It happens little by little  as we let too many dehumanizing things happen to us, so that we can no longer  take a stand against it.

The term I like to use to describe that whole phenomenon is "pretty poison."  It's not a spectacular kind of evil. Pretty poison is the kind of evil that  killed Christ. It was not the bad men of that age, not the state, not the church.  It wasn't the notoriously evil men but the pretty poison that seeped into the  best institutions and the best people. Pretty poison is that kind of evil that  seeps unnoticeably, imperceptibly into our nicest people and our best institutions  and just disorients them, derails them. It's a respectable kind of evil.

WIE: How have the very specific external changes that you made—for example,  stepping away from the world completely and becoming a monk—helped you to remove  yourself from what you call the "Mpire" and go deeper into the spiritual  dimension?

WM: When I entered the Carmelite order at eighteen, I took the vows  of poverty, chastity, and obedience. When I started a new branch of the Carmelite  order in 1960, I added another vow, and that is the vow of holy leisure—refusing  to be driven into stampedes of work, busyness, and fuss.

Poverty means no fuss. We fuss about so many things that we have no energy  left to be focused and concentrated on the one thing necessary: God, union with  God, enlightenment, purity of heart. So we take the vow of poverty, and that  means that nothing short of ultimate union is worth fussing about. It's not  worth it unless it's connected to that. So poverty really means getting rid  of all of the excess baggage. We don't need watches, radios, and hi-fi sets—we  need God. We need a good earth, we need good relationships, and we need a rich  kind of life where there is a variety and balance of human activities that lead  to the one thing necessary, the pure act, which is the act of enlightened love.

Chastity means no lust. It means not lusting after anything, not only human  beings but anything. It means getting rid of all forms of craving. All of the  great religions have said that—get rid of craving and you're free. So we take  the vow of chastity to get rid of craving, and then we focus on real intimacy—with  God, with human beings, animals, vegetables, minerals. One responds to people  as they are, with no designs on them, with no greed, with no lust. Then one  becomes full of awe, wonder, and radical amazement, because as this brand-new  kind of beauty emerges before us, we don't want to use it, we want to celebrate  it, and offer it to God and thank God for it. So that's chastity. It also means  renouncing some good things, like the good aspects of the sexual life with one's  beloved. We renounce that, not because it's bad but because we want the quickest,  shortest route into the ultimate. Therefore we store up those sexual energies  and, by the help of God, subsume them within eros itself. Eros is that deep,  profound desire in every human being to be united with everyone and everything.

And then obedience means no rust, that is, not allowing our mind to become  rusty. So, no fuss, no lust, and no rust. Obedience comes from the Latin oboedire  and it means "to listen." How many people really listen? To be obedient  means that we are so free of self-will, self-interest, and self-importance that  we really listen to all those messengers that God sends to tell us the truth.  In obedience we renounce a lot of the self-preoccupation and look to the other,  listen to the other. It's other-centered rather than self-centered.

WIE: How have you found that your outward renunciation has supported  and deepened your inner renunciation? How has the outward asceticism and solitude  helped to deepen your inner spiritual life?

WM: That is a good question, because in our modern age there is a tendency  to dismiss the need for exterior renunciation, saying, "We're grown up  now; we've come of age, so all we need to do is renounce disturbing interior  things but not exterior ones." It doesn't work. If there is no renunciation  of inappropriate external things, then the whole interior life weakens. You  can't separate the exterior from the interior. If we're not mortifying and renouncing  a lot of external things, then we grow soft inside, we grow limp. There is no  interior alertness, aliveness, because we're still too inordinately attached  to external things: food, clothing, conveniences, comfort, my own schedule,  my own agenda. All of that interferes with what God wants and what is absolutely  the best for the human being.

If God is not supremely important, he's not important at all. So we have to  judge everything, evaluate everything, and ask the question: How directly and  immediately does this meeting, this talk, this meal, this movie relate to the  ultimate human act, divine union? If we don't ask that question, we lose track.

WIE: What if someone came to you and said, "Father McNamara, I think  that I want to become a monk, but is it worth it? From your own experience,  tell me why it's worth it to take that step." What would you say to them?

WM: A monk is convinced that God is the all, and that short of union with him,  life is a fallacy and we do more harm than good. So I would say that the basic  reward of taking that leap and becoming a monk, becoming a god-man, possessed  by God, overwhelmed by God, is human freedom. It just obliterates all of those  shackles, all of those forms of imprisonment that prevent freedom. We're not  only free for delightful, passionate, intimate union with God, but we're free  to enjoy all that pertains to him and belongs to him with no designs on any  of it. We're not grabbing, clutching, using. We just see God's gifts and thank  him. It's a wonderful, free life. It's sheer joy.

WIE: That's inspiring, because so many people see it as the opposite.

WM: I know. That's the popular opinion. Spooky, sour monks. I think of monks  as the fish that jump out of the water. They're the live ones. That's what monks  do—they jump out of the ordinary, everyday environment in order to taste God.

WIE: Jesus said, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess  and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow  me." Like other great religious figures of history, Jesus inspired a very  strong spirit of renunciation in his disciples, many of whom walked away from  family, friends, and work forever to follow him into a homeless life of poverty  and simplicity. As a contemplative monk in the Christian tradition, what do  you think of that kind of radical step, of dropping everything, walking away,  and leaving the world completely behind to pursue the spiritual life?

WM: That radical kind of leaving the world behind in order to do the  one thing necessary, in order to follow Christ into the abyss, into the ultimate  communion with his Father and his Father's world, is the most dramatic kind  of gesture. Although everyone can't do that, it's absolutely indispensable that  some do it. By doing that, by leaving the whole world behind and going into  the desert (let's use the desert as a symbol), they become the best possible  witnesses of the living God. What greater testimony could there be that God  is alluring, that God is absolute, that God is demanding? And in so many cases  it's a very enriched mind that does that; it's a noble person. Any kind of person  who does that becomes a living witness, but the more noble the person, the greater  the witness. People say, "God alone satisfies that man or that woman. Nothing  but God." And that's worth all the preaching and all the writing in the  world—just living that way.

There have been people like that from the beginning, and there will be until  the end. They are the people who keep the world from falling apart. It's not  the people who are busy all day and all night in offices, on computers, in the  hurly-burly of the world, but the people who have a pure heart and who want  only God. The overflow of that—its benefit for the world—is tremendous.

My favorite example is St. Anthony the Hermit. He was the first hermit, in  the fourth century. He heard a sermon in church that quoted that exact same  statement of Christ's that you just read, and he went off to the desert and  stayed for eighteen years. Then he came back, and he was alive with love and  he had a tremendous effect on people. He was sustained by God, and because of  that he just radiated God.

Look at Jesus himself. The apostles would wake up in the morning, and they  wouldn't be able to find him because he was out in the desert communing with  his Father. Now if he had to do that—how ridiculous we are to think that we  could pull it off under our own steam.

In all the traditions, it is the great people who take that kind of radical  step away from the world. It's not just an individual thing, a private kind  of spiritual matrimony with God. It's also an apocalyptic thing. They are willing  to wage war with the enemies of God. And they do it first of all by being committed  entirely to God, and then, once they make themselves available to him, they  are also willing to be sent by him, if he sees fit, into the worst places in  the world. All they know is that they have to make themselves available, by  going into the desert, and then whatever God does is fine with them. But if  they don't take that first step, nothing happens.

WIE: Many people today feel that the contemplative life, the life of  solitude and renunciation, is fundamentally self-centered, merely an escape  from the problems of our modern society. Yet both you and the cofounder of your  Spiritual Life Institute, Mother Tessa Bielecki, have claimed the very opposite—that  the contemplative life is the crucial and missing answer to many of the most  pressing issues of the human predicament, "perhaps the only hope for the  future of our endangered planet," as Mother Tessa says. Could you explain  why you view the renunciate or mystical life not as a flight from the world's  problems but rather as the best way to get at the essence of what ails the human  race?

WM: The reason a human being renounces the so-called world in pursuit  of the contemplative life is because that person not only accepts responsibility  for him- or herself, but they are literally in love with the world, and they  are convinced that by moving into solitude, they move into the heart of reality.  And from that God-centered place, deep down in the universe, in the real—from  that prayerful center, they believe that they can touch and uplift everyone  in the world to some degree. So what they are seeking is more reality, more  communion, more salvific human activities that will help the whole world. They  are not primarily trying to perfect themselves or sanctify themselves, because  only God can do that, and only the exigencies of life can do that, when one  is responsive to them and therefore allows God to break through.

There's absolutely no selfishness in the life of a genuine monk, a genuine  contemplative. No, they are called by God to make themselves present to him  so that he can use them for the benefit of the world.

WIE: Many people today feel that the whole concept of renunciation and  monasticism is outdated in the modern world, based on values that are world-denying,  patriarchal, and which imply a false split between the world and God, between  the body and the spirit. What would you say to those who feel that we need a  new form of spirituality based on a total integration of the worldly life and  the spiritual life?

WM: Certainly your whole life is your spiritual life. There is no doubt  about that. We do have to integrate every aspect of our lives into the center,  into the god-spirit that permeates and sustains us. But it is obvious to me,  and should be obvious to everyone, I think, that the monastic life, if properly  understood, is the most conducive way to achieve this end. Because the monastic  life does integrate them. It provides the most balanced possible life, if it's  genuine.
For example, our own life in the Carmelite order I started is the only instance  I know of where there is a marvelous cooperation and balance between man and  woman, between solitude and community, between work and play. That has always  been the purpose of monastic life, to provide the most humanizing set of circumstances  or conditions so that God is free to sanctify the human being and then to act,  through the human being, on the whole world. I think that because people don't  understand the real meaning of monastic life, they falsely see a separation.  The whole purpose is to unite and to integrate everything, but on a deep level.  There are a lot of shallow, superficial efforts in that direction today, but  they are kind of juvenile and transient; they're passing fads. Whereas the monastic  life is so essential and so substantial that it goes right to the heart of the  human being and the human world, and there unfolds effectively.

WIE: Why do you think it is that there are now so few people interested  in the kind of life that you have undertaken?

WM: I think that most people in this modern age are seduced by the workaday  world. The average human being is being deceived by hyper-activity, feverish  activity. It's dispersed human energy. It is not hitting the target. It is not  uplifting the world. It's just a roundelay of repetitive mechanisms, over and  over again, with no final end.

George Santyana, the great Harvard professor, said, "A fanatic is one  who, having forgotten the end, multiplies the means." And that's what we're  all doing. Where are we? We don't know. Who are we? We don't know. We're just  busy. And that embarrasses us, and so we keep doing more things to cover over  the embarrassment, the emptiness, the hollowness of our lives. So given the  condition that we're in, we shy away from the contemplative life.

WIE: Do you think that is also partly because the predominant message  in the spiritual world right now seems to be that you can do it in the midst  of the world, in the midst of your work and your life? Does this message help  to blind people to what you were just speaking about?

WM: Yes, and that's so seductive because it's half true. You can do  it in your present circumstances and conditions, but not unless you take radical  steps for transformation. And so people say, "Oh yes, we can do it in these  circumstances and conditions, if . . ." But they never follow up the "if."  They never introduce those measures, those disciplines, those habits of life  that will make it possible. So ultimately it's possible, but existentially it's  not possible because no one is doing what it takes to make it possible.

WIE: It seems that even those people who do have a genuine passion and  interest in spiritual life often don't consider the step of monasticism. I wonder  if that's also partially because it has been denigrated in our modern society.

WM: I've given retreats to a lot of people who are totally dissatisfied  with their way of life, but they don't have the gumption, they don't have the  bravery, they don't have the heroism to change it. They know it's killing them.  They feel like robots, automatons, but they don't have the courage to change.  It would mean stepping out of that rat race, taking a stand against that whole  current. It's a lonely, heroic thing to ask of anyone, and so people won't do  it.

WIE: I have one last question. As a spiritual practitioner, I know that  it can be quite a shock to come back into the world after a period of time in  seclusion, and I'm sure that that is even more true for someone who's spent  as much time as you have in solitude. I was curious what your experience is  of spending time out in the world. What do you see when you walk out into this  modern society?

WM: I guess I see two things, progressively. One is that I'm more and  more aware of the unreal aspect of what I go back out into, as opposed to the  ideal situation in which I live. The noise, the frenzy, the lack of meaning  in things. For instance, the expressed, articulated relationship of creature  to Creator is not obvious. It's not there, or at least when it's there, it's  smothered, it's submerged. I never hear anyone refer to God except by profane  language. It's all very remote, and it's all very separate. People have somewhere  a spirituality, they have somewhere a religious duty, and it's pretty conventional.  They go through it on Sunday. So I feel all of that right away when I enter  the world. I feel a sense of, "I'm an alien." And there's a sadness  with that.

  On the other hand, despite all that, because of some kind of awareness of God  that has become habitual, I sense his presence more in the turmoil. But at the  same time it's kind of a "negative presence." I don't mean that he's  absent, because he's not absent. I sense our absence, not the absence of God.  I perceive and appreciate God in an alien world.

:thumbup:


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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