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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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bush seeks political gains from foiled plot...
    #5952139 - 08/10/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

contrary to popular myth..its not the liberals that wet their pants when emmanuel goldstein rears his uglious head ..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060810/pl_afp/britainattacksairline_060810185330

Quote:

Bush seeks political gains from foiled plot

by Olivier KnoxThu Aug 10, 2:53 PM ET

US President George W. Bush seized on a foiled London airline bomb plot to hammer unnamed critics he accused of having all but forgotten the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Weighed down by the unpopular war in Iraq, Bush and his aides have tried to shift the national political debate from that conflict to the broader and more popular global war on terrorism ahead of November 7 congressional elections.

The London conspiracy is "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation," the president said on a day trip to Wisconsin.

"It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of America," he said. "We've taken a lot of measures to protect the American people. But obviously we still aren't completely safe."

His remarks came a day after the White House orchestrated an exceptionally aggressive campaign to tar opposition Democrats as weak on terrorism, knowing what Democrats didn't: News of the plot could soon break.

Vice President Dick Cheney and White House spokesman Tony Snow had argued that Democrats wanted to raise what Snow called "a white flag in the war on terror," citing as evidence the defeat of a three-term Democratic senator who backed the Iraq war in his effort to win renomination.

But Bush aides on Thursday fought the notion that they had exploited their knowledge of the coming British raid to hit Democrats, saying the trigger had been the defeat of Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut by an anti-war political novice.

"The comments were purely and simply a reaction" to Democratic voters who "removed a pro-defense Senator and sent the message that the party would not tolerate candidates with such views," said Snow.

The public relations offensive "was not done in anticipation. It was not said with the knowledge that this was coming," the spokesman said.

Snow said Bush first learned in detail about the plot on Friday, and received two detailed briefings on it on Saturday and Sunday, as well as had two conversations about it with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

But a senior White House official said that the British government had not launched its raid until well after Cheney held a highly unusual conference call with reporters to attack the Democrats as weak against terrorism.

An aide to Lieberman, who would have been one of the first Democrats to hear of the plot because he is the top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said the lawmaker first heard of it late Wednesday.

On Wednesday, Cheney had suggested that Democrats believe "that somehow we can retreat behind our oceans and not be actively engaged in this conflict and be safe here at home, which clearly we know we won't, we can't, be," he said.

While some Democrats have opposed some steps in the war on terrorism, and more and more are calling for a withdrawal from Iraq, no major figures in the party have called for a wholesale retreat in the broader conflict.

But Bush's Republicans hoped the raid would yield political gains.

"I'd rather be talking about this than all of the other things that Congress hasn't done well," one Republican congressional aide told AFP on condition of anonymity because of possible reprisals.

"Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big," said another White House official, who also spoke on condition of not being named, adding that some Democratic candidates won't "look as appealing" under the circumstances.




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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5952285 - 08/10/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Are you surprised?

i cant think of one issue or event that GWB and company havent tried to politicize within days, and usually hours of its happening...

When your first reaction to a crisis is to hold a press conference saying how the other party let this happen rather than actually try and take care of the problem, you know your party has issues.

I think it speaks volumes that in a time of "War" and great national strife, Bush's main confidant and go-to guy is a slimy greasy political attack dog.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5952466 - 08/10/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ever so subtle when it comes to timing..the neocons not only have their name-calling conference the day after..but the day before..rove himself reportedly contacted joe lieberman immediately after the latter lost in CT..offering to rush to liebermans' aid ..

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2006/08/george_stephano.html

and this might well be the said aid...

given roves' two previous bogus terror plots (the miami sears tower plot and that laughable holland tunnel shit)..i very much doubt that there ever was a plot to brew explosives out of gatorade bottles in airline toilets...and nor does the fact that it was the UK govt and not the US govt by any means exclude rove..especially since tony blair was in washington like a week ago...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5952476 - 08/10/06 11:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I honestly think that Republicans will stay in power. It seems like the Democrats just don't have it together at all...


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: downforpot]
    #5952953 - 08/11/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

unfortunately..i am forced to agree...

in all fairness..however..it is ludicrous to expect even superman..let alone the democrats..to formulate an effective strategy against the repugnicans..in a world where the truth is unilaterally defined by repugnicans for repugnicans...sad as it is to say..but if the repugnicans decide that the sun should rise in the west tomorrow morning..then that is where it will be found at sunrise...

in fact..if the democrats even had it together one iota..they would have realized the above and ceased to exist...

but dont look for me to turn into a neocon anytime soon either...i prefer to be a moonbat that doesnt accept the reality of the repugnicans as god...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5952997 - 08/11/06 03:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We can always hold out hope that the people are pissed enough about the current state of things to oust those scumbags. I believe enough people are pissed off enough to do it, but unfortunately that doesn't mean much if the voting has been compromised.


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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5953087 - 08/11/06 05:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you know that one of the bush administration's biggest and most public policy goals is the "war on terror". if you expect them to sit quiet on the propaganda value of a foiled major terrorist attack, you've got your head very far up your ass. the emmanuel goldstein references are always cute. do you believe that this recent plot was a fiction invented for propaganda value?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: wilshire]
    #5953304 - 08/11/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The nutlog brigade will start questioning the TIMING in 5....4....3.....2.....1...You're on.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5953405 - 08/11/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In 10 years time, when you can't take a piss with out asking permission, think of me.  :evil:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: wilshire]
    #5953443 - 08/11/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
you know that one of the bush administration's biggest and most public policy goals is the "war on terror". if you expect them to sit quiet on the propaganda value of a foiled major terrorist attack, you've got your head very far up your ass. the emmanuel goldstein references are always cute. do you believe that this recent plot was a fiction invented for propaganda value?




the answer to that question is a ~resounding~ yes..even if it was meant as sarcasm (ill assume it wasnt for the purposes of this post)...to make a long story short..there are simply no aspects of this case (correct me if im wrong) where falsification can be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt..especially given the neocons' political motivations...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5953514 - 08/11/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
In 10 years time, when you can't take a piss with out asking permission, think of me.  :evil:




In 10 years I'll probably be begging my BLADDER to take a piss.
Question to all the loons.  Don't you think us warmongering neocons would have announced this BEFORE the CT primary?  For, you know, maximum effect.  Or do you think Lieberman's independent run is a Rovian plot?  Bwahahahaha.  We've got you now.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5953587 - 08/11/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

we are questioning the loons.. namely the ones that are intimidating voters with their bogus bomb plots (and harrassing passengers at airports to make it look convincing).. and the ones that believe all their bullshit and feel a need to parrot it ..

Quote:

Don't you think us warmongering neocons would have announced this BEFORE the CT primary?
Or do you think Lieberman's independent run is a Rovian plot?





both of those ?s are addressed in the abcnews link above..which ill repost for your convenience ..

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2006/08/george_stephano.html

IMAO..liebermans' loss might have influenced the timing..but roves' fix would have still gone in nonetheless..with the repugnicans so far down in the polls (voters are questioning the loons..or at least they were)...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5953669 - 08/11/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

there are simply no aspects of this case (correct me if im wrong) where falsification can be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt..

what sort of evidence would you have to see to rule "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this attempted attack was indeed the work of islamic extremists, and not the dreaded neocons? what would convince you?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: wilshire]
    #5953791 - 08/11/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

None and none and none. BDS at it's most virulent.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: wilshire]
    #5954615 - 08/11/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
there are simply no aspects of this case (correct me if im wrong) where falsification can be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt..

what sort of evidence would you have to see to rule "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this attempted attack was indeed the work of islamic extremists, and not the dreaded neocons? what would convince you?




first i have lay a disclaimer that im not any kind of legal expert...but to answer your ?..we must first consider that there are three(3) ways that the terrorist suspects currently in UK custody could be processed ..

1) handed to US for military detention.. held indefinitely with no trial...
2) handed to US for military detention.. trial by military tribunal...
3) trial in UK civilian court...

option 2) of course assumes that congress will ratify bushs' military tribunals to overturn the SCOTUS hamdan ruling...

next..consider how evidence would be used in each case above ..

case 1) ..there will be no evidence presented at any kind of "court"..which is arguably bush&co supressing the evidence...unless the neocons have something to hide..then why is not even being brought before a military tribunal??...meanwhile..faux news will present the unwashed masses with alternating names/pictures of the suspects and images of shampoo bottles labeled as explosives components..and thats the only "evidence" that will be presented to anyone in this scenario...

case 2) ..under the bush draft proposal now in senate comittee (lets not kid ourselves.. it will pass as is)..the military tribunal would accept..as hard evidence..pure hearsay claims from various military and law enforcement officials linking a suspect to a container of liquid explosives component.. to ppl they say are goldstein agents.. etc...thats the same as the faux news show above..and its all it would take to win a conviction...nor is it by any means real evidence that this person had this shit and they tried to bring it on the plane...

so in a nutshell..if these ppl get shipped off to guantanamo..then the door is necessary left wide open to the possibility that this whole thing was a rovian hoax...

case 3) ..civilian courts have a much higher evidence bar than guantanamo..but even here..official claims linking the suspects to alleged goldstein agents are still hearsay...and while the court might require..for example..a suspects fingerprint to appear on a shampoo bottle later found to contain explosives component.. its still quite possible that a law enforcement agency under the auspices of the neocons could have put the explosives component in the bottle after it was taken from the suspect...courts generally dont accept claims of evidence tampering (at least i dont know of any defense which has been won on those grounds)..but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen..and much more so when its karl rove...

its much easier to accept the judgement of a real court..as opposed to guantanamo "justice"..but even that still doesnt close all the holes...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (08/11/06 07:12 PM)

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Offlinerubixcubies
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5954628 - 08/11/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

so what makes the islamic fascists so bad compared to the american fascists? that there is just cultural intolerance.... :tongue:


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5954630 - 08/11/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you didn't answer the question.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: wilshire]
    #5954815 - 08/11/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

to answer the ? as to what would convince me that this was real and not rove..i guess if a substantial susbset of the suspects started off on a series of moussaoui-like rants in the courtroom.. and there were no even remotely credible allegations of brainwashing.. then i might begin to consider that maybe its not rove...but thats still no reason to listen to neocons either...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (08/11/06 10:13 PM)

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5954920 - 08/11/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you weren't on the OJ jury by any chance, were you?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: bush seeks political gains from foiled plot... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5962611 - 08/14/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

the nation...

Quote:

An evil symbiosis does exist between Muslim terrorists and American politicians, but it is not the one Republicans describe. The jihadists need George W. Bush to sustain their cause. His bloody crusade in the Middle East bolsters their accusation that America is out to destroy Islam. The president has unwittingly made himself the lead recruiter of willing young martyrs.

More to the point, it is equally true that Bush desperately needs the terrorists. They are his last frail hope for political survival. They divert public attention, at least momentarily, from his disastrous war in Iraq and his shameful abuses of the Constitution. The "news" of terror--whether real or fantasized--reduces American politics to its most primitive impulses, the realm of fear-and-smear where George Bush is at his best.

So, once again in the run-up to a national election, we are visited with alarming news. A monstrous plot, red alert, high drama playing on all channels and extreme measures taken to tighten security.

The White House men wear grave faces, but they cannot hide their delight. It's another chance for Bush to protect us from those aliens with funny names, another opportunity to accuse Democrats of aiding and abetting the enemy.

This has worked twice before. It could work again this fall unless gullible Americans snap out of it. Wake up, folks, and recognize how stupid and wimpish you look. I wrote the following two years ago during a similar episode of red alerts: "Bush's ‘war on terrorism' is a political slogan--not a coherent strategy for national defense--and it succeeds brillantly only as politics. For everything else, it is quite illogical."

Where is the famous American skepticism? The loose-jointed ability to laugh at ourselves in anxious moments? Can't people see the campy joke in this docudrama called "Terror in the Sky"? The joke is on them. I have a suspicion that a lot of Americans actually enjoy the occasional fright since they know the alarm bell does actually not toll for them. It's a good, scary movie, but it's a slapstick war.

The other day at the airport in Burlington, Vermont, security guards confiscated liquid containers from two adolescent sisters returning home from vacation. The substance was labeled "Pure Maple Syrup." I am reminded of the Amish pretzel factory that was put on Pennsylvania's list of targets. Mothers with babes in arms are now told they must take a swiq of their baby formula before they can board the plane. I already feel safer.

The latest plot uncovered by British authorities may be real. Or maybe not. We do not yet know enough to be certain. The early reporting does not reassure or settle anything (though the Brits do sound more convincing than former Attorney General John Ashcroft, who gave "terror alerts" such a bad reputation). Tony Blair is no more trustworthy on these matters than Bush and Cheney. British investigators are as anxious as their American counterparts to prove their vigilance (and support their leaders). The close collaboration with Pakistani authorities doesn't exactly add credibility.

One question to ask is: Why now? The police have had a "mole" inside this operation since late 2005, but have yet to explain why they felt the need to swoop down and arest alleged plotters at this moment (two days after the Connecticut primary produced a triumph for anti-war politics).

The early claim that a massive takedown of a dozen airliners was set for August 16 is "rubbish," according to London authorities. So who decided this case was ripe for its public rollout? Blair consulted Cheney: What did they decide? American economist Jamie Galbraith was on a ten-hour flight from Manchester, England, to Boston on the day the story broke, and has wittily reflected on other weak points in the official story line.

The point is, Americans are not entirely defenseless pawns. They can keep their wits and reserve judgment. They can voice loudly the skepticism that Bush and company have earned by politicizing of the so-called "war" from the very start. Leading Democrats are toughening up. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid uses plain English to explain what the Republicans up to--using genuine concerns of national security "as a political wedge issue. It is disgusting, but not surprising."

Instead of cowering in silence, the opposition party should start explaining this sick joke. Political confusion starts with the ill-conceived definition of a "war" that's best fought by police work, not heavy brigades on a battlefield. Forget the hype, call for common sense and stout hearts.

All we know, for sure, is that Bush and his handlers are not going to back off the fear-and-smear strategy until it loses an election for them. Maybe this will be the year.




if the bomb plot was not a fabrication..then rove is guilty of deliberately allowing the near miss and placing american lives in jeopardy...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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