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passitbobbie
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Half of the posts here are about pot....
#5930349 - 08/04/06 01:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know pot is an entheogen but I don't really want to read/sift through the pot posts to read about other entheogens. Maybe there can be a Pot/Succulents sub-forum?
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: passitbobbie]
#5930481 - 08/04/06 04:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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This has been discussed lately, check Website Announcements & Feedback (may have to click through a few pages)
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Vertigo6911
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Registered: 12/04/04
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Organic]
#5930607 - 08/04/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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actualy, cannbis is not an 'entheogen' as such. at the very most it can be a sort of substitute teacher...
the weed conversations are alot different from discussion of other plants. the greed and ego behind these discussion never fail to amaze me. neither does the shallowness, all these weed topics are causing the garden to degenerate.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5930675 - 08/04/06 07:44 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is an entheogen for one may not be for another, it is highly subjective. I don't think anyone here is in any authoritative position over what is, and isn't an entheogen for everyone... That would be quite the ego spill
This forum is more active, interesting, and better-moderated than ever, I don't see why you are complaining, nor how a discussion can have an underlying greedy ego.
Knowledge for all I say...
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RateLimitEnzyme
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Organic]
#5930903 - 08/04/06 09:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The word entheogen is a modern term derived from two Ancient Greek words, ?????? (entheos) and ???????? (genesthai). Entheos literally means "god (theos) within", more freely translated "inspired". The Greeks used it as a term of praise for poets and other artists. Genesthai means "to cause to be" or becoming. So an entheogen is "that which causes God (or godly inspiration) to be within a person"...
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shamantra
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Registered: 05/18/04
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: RateLimitEnzyme]
#5930960 - 08/04/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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so by that definition alcohol is an entheogen for me, i sometimes drink until i speak in tounges and think i can walk on water. (j\k)
anyways, if you look at the history to cannabis especially in middle east cannabis falls into the category entheogen just as much as peyote does in america from a historical point of view and like allready mentioned its a subjective thing. and the plants many uses troughout history and present day makes it a ethnobotanical per definition and cannabis belongs in this forum and i dont see any problems with all the cannabis posts
-------------------- note: english is my 3rd languange, please ignore misspelling and poor english, im doing my best http://youtube.com/watch?v=ug98TKkWKy0
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: passitbobbie]
#5931265 - 08/04/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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no actualy we dont get to make up the dictionary as we go along. words have definitions and the definition for entheogen is as follows:
Quote:
nov. verb.— Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. Hence: Age of Entheogens nov. verb., Entheogenic nov. verb.
that doesent sound like a 'buzz' now does it? cannabis does not facilitate holy communion, therefore it is not an entheogen.
if you go down that road you can call caffeine an entheogen and then wtf does that word mean anymore?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931440 - 08/04/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cannabis does not facilitate holy communion, therefore it is not an entheogen.
...for you.
If you smoke on joint like it were a cigarrette habit, you're not using it as an entheogen.
If you're sitting outside in nature, smoking a bowl, then yes, I think it can bring one closer to nature, God, JibbaJabba, or wherever they want to go.
The entheogenic trait isn't inherent in the substance, but in the user and for what purpose they use.
Sure, mushrooms have been used for centuries for visionary, entheogenic experiences, but what say you to those that eat an eighth and drink a case of beer to party? Are they really getting closer to the divine, or participating in 'holy communion'?
If you notice, that definition did not strictly list substances that are entheogens, so it is obviously subjective and person-specific. If one were to take that definition in a most literal sense, no post 1900 drugs would fit as entheogens--MDMA, LSD, etc would be nothing more than a trick high, comparable to a huff of gasoline.
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shamantra
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Organic]
#5931449 - 08/04/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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^^^ well said i totally agree
-------------------- note: english is my 3rd languange, please ignore misspelling and poor english, im doing my best http://youtube.com/watch?v=ug98TKkWKy0
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: passitbobbie]
#5931453 - 08/04/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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just because a list is not given doesent mean u can fill any plant you like. there is a very specific description of the effects of entheogens, and weed simply doesent fit the bill.
"holy communion" doesent mean to get closer to, it means to be in the presence of.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931471 - 08/04/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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We'll have to agree to disagree on the effects of marijuana, because I do not understand your denial that some could use marijuana as a tool just as they could use the classic psychedelics/entheogens (which, quite frankly marijuana is often and widely considered part of), and said substance may affect them differently than you
Fortunately the dictionary writers whose definition holds more weight left entheogen open for subjective application.
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931472 - 08/04/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think MJ is a very powerful ethno and sacrement.
But our society and they way we are made us abuse her from the get go.
So its spark becomes less and less relevent to a point.
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: passitbobbie]
#5931598 - 08/04/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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no they didnt, i think you fail to grasp the concept of "divine communion"...
psychedelic is not the same as entheogen. not all entheogens are psychedelics, not all psychedelics are entheogens.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931640 - 08/04/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, I "grasp" it quite fine. While you're teaching me the wonders of reading comprehension, allow me to have the floor for a lecture.
Quote:
commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion,
Now lets apply CONTEXT
Quote:
nov. verb.— Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. Hence: Age of Entheogens nov. verb., Entheogenic nov. verb.
It is talking about a common reason for use, not THE reason for use. Nowhere in this definition, does it define an effect of the substance except
Quote:
Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision
Quote:
becoming divine within
I'm sorry, but generations of marijuana smokers will disagree with you if you deny these effects to them. Once again, it may not bring you in the "presence" of God , but you and your reasons for using marijuana are not everyone's.
Face it, you are alone in your argument, you are sidestepping my questions, and you are constructing your own interpretation as if it were the definition as you see beneficial.
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: passitbobbie]
#5931650 - 08/04/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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thats because most MJ smokers are immature.
a weed buzz is not in any way comparable to religious extacy, nor does it enduce visions.
it happens, but it is way to rare to be of any practical use to any shaman.
becoming divine within has nothing to do with being stoned. maybe were just being a bit selfinduldgent when we smoke to much?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931668 - 08/04/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
thats because most MJ smokers are immature.
All mushroom users turn into a glass of orange juice.
Quote:
a weed buzz is not in any way comparable to religious extacy, nor does it enduce visions.
For you.
Quote:
it happens, but it is way to rare to be of any practical use to any shaman.
Do you have any evidence to back this up or are you just drawing off stereotypes again?
Quote:
becoming divine within has nothing to do with being stoned.
For you.
Quote:
maybe were just being a bit selfinduldgent when we smoke to much?
Well, I'm glad Buddha's latest incarnation set us straight
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RateLimitEnzyme
Stranger
Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 48
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: shamantra]
#5931670 - 08/04/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The word "entheogen" was coined in 1979 by a group of ethnobotanists and scholars of mythology (Carl A. P. Ruck, Jeremy Bigwood, Danny Staples, Richard Evans Schultes, Jonathan Ott and R. Gordon Wasson). They defined "entheogen" as:
"In a strict sense, only those vision-producing drugs that can be shown to have figured in shamanic or religious rites would be designated entheogens, but in a looser sense, the term could also be applied to other drugs, both natural and artificial, that induce alterations of consciousness similar to those documented for ritual ingestion of traditional entheogens."
So, it depends which part of the definition you subscribe to...
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Organic
Lloyd
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: RateLimitEnzyme]
#5931675 - 08/04/06 02:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I subscribe to the whole definition, as does most of the ethno community. Dissecting and exploiting a portion of the definition seems, I don't know...elitist?
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RateLimitEnzyme
Stranger
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5931683 - 08/04/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vertigo6911 said: no actualy we dont get to make up the dictionary as we go along. words have definitions and the definition for entheogen is as follows:
Quote:
nov. verb.— Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. Hence: Age of Entheogens nov. verb., Entheogenic nov. verb.
that doesent sound like a 'buzz' now does it? cannabis does not facilitate holy communion, therefore it is not an entheogen.
if you go down that road you can call caffeine an entheogen and then wtf does that word mean anymore?
Dont confuse the etymology of a word with the definition...
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist
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Re: Half of the posts here are about pot.... [Re: Organic]
#5931695 - 08/04/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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pick up a dictionary and tell me what it says under 'divinity'. then find the entry for 'communion' and tell me what it reads.
and wile your at it go read some McKenna and pay special attention when he talks about peering out into the darkness from the comfortable safety of your porch...
theres a vast difference between feeling closer to god and looking your maker in the eye my friend.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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