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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Labor Unions Suck ASS
#5907425 - 07/27/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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More a rant then a thread I guess....................
But,
There is this shop near my home that is on strike..er.thats what the workers say anyway...They all no called no showed for fri sat and monday. Then showed up thursday sporting signs.What a joke.They were all fired the day before..Now they are making all kinds of cry baby noise and public bitching.etc etc............
The federal goverment says worker are entilted to time and a half pay over 40 hours.....Guess what they walked off teh job for ?? Not being paid double time on sunday.........So they got fired for it.
I have beeen exposed to my last fucking cry baby union group of cry babies. Stupid fuckers.
unions were good for the time with no labor laws and child abuse labor.etc.............
GET A LIFE YOU UNIONIZED CRY BABIES
When will someone push for teh criminalization of the labor unions
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Fucknuckle]
#5907431 - 07/27/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm IN a union, and even I think the whole scheme is a bit ridiculous...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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OJK
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5908144 - 07/28/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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> (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for > unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no > excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour. He also reports that in order to suppliment this, it is standard practise (verging on mandatory) to tip service workers 20%. He reports that whenever he declined to do so, he was accused of not supporting poorly paid people.
This is entirely annocdotal, so if this is not the state of affairs in San Fransisco, please enlighten me. However, when I heard this, it seemed to me that, at least in that city, unionized labour would of huge benefit to workers and the public.
Certainly, in any case, $4.50 per hour does not seem to me to be a living wage.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
#5908227 - 07/28/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Doesn't make sense... legal minimum wage in the US is $5.15 with a few exceptions. If somebody is willing to labor, rather than flip burgers at McDonalds, they can easily make $15/hr or more in construction with little to no experience.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5908257 - 07/28/06 07:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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that is simply not true, especially in areas consumed with mexxers, like my home state.
I was making 11 an hr framing houses, then came the two mexxers who my boss paid 11 an hr to combined.
Guess who lost his job?
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/06
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The labor union can provide a whole lot of securities for those in the union.
Litigation services and wage securities.
They also insure the quality of work, thus providing the employer a with a small degree of assurance against shoddy craftsmanship.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (07/28/06 07:59 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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> that is simply not true, especially in areas consumed with mexxers, like my home state.
Sorry, I should have realized that not everywhere has the same cost of living. Not only is it geographical dependent, but also related to the health of the economy. Still, construction pays more than minimum wage, typically.
> The labor union can provide a whole lot of securities for those in the union.
And yet the union members have to pay for those securities without choice. Want to work here, you have to be union and you have to pay union fees...
> They also insure the quality of work
That is a joke, yes? A union can ensure quality of work, but management cannot? Please...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5908663 - 07/28/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unions do NOT insure the quality of work, its quite the opposite in fact.
Case in point...I work at an International Airport, and have for the last 4 years. Our union there is the Teamsters, one of the biggest in the United States. Management is very hamstrung by the union. Its so difficult for management to fire anyone thats its nigh on impossible. The consequence being that nobody has an incentive to work hard. We have people there who dont give a fuck about their job. They do the minimum amount necessary to get paid, but the company cant fire them, not without a long 1-2 year grievance fight. Its stupid. Those of us who have to work hard to pick up the slack HATE it. If the company could get rid of the dead-weight, productivity would go up by a large margin, I guarantee it.
That said, I also make $17.00 an hour, get 4 weeks paid vacation, and have a full benefits package (Health/Vision/Dental/Drugs) that I dont have to pay a single penny for. And this is for a PART-TIME position that I only work after school. Thats the unions doing too.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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RosettaStoned
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/06
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Unions do provide some job security though. Who's going to fight for you if a company feels like firing you for no reason at all? Least if your in a union you have a chance at your job not being pulled out from under you.
But unions are a dying breed. Companies now days go to great lengths to get rid of them. In my area I've seen shops close their doors for a year just to open back up and hire most of the people back, with no union of course. Even speak the word union in the surrounding factories and you get the boot.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
#5909009 - 07/28/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odiumjunkie said: One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour.
That doesn't add up. Either you heard bad information, or he was being ripped off. Minimum wage in California is $6.75, a dollar higher than the national minimum wage.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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> Who's going to fight for you if a company feels like firing you for no reason at all?
It is not in a companies best interest to fire somebody "for no reason at all". I'm starting to notice a sad trend here, Madtowntripper excluded.
> Companies now days go to great lengths to get rid of them.
One of my engineering management professors was a retired VP from a very large corp. He said they would close down a plant and move before allowing it to go union. He also said that they would not allow existing union plants to have better benefits than non-union plants.
> Even speak the word union in the surrounding factories and you get the boot.
I am pretty sure that would be illegal in the US. Anybody know for certain?
I'm surprised noboody has mentioned organized crime with respect to unions.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5909725 - 07/28/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
And who blows the whistle when labor laws get violated?
Should a single worker have to pay a lawyer out of his own pocket and fight the large corporations entire team of expensive lawyers when they try to fire him while he's recovering from an injury caused by his employer?
When I was growing up there were at least 2 times where the only reason my dad was able to keep his job was because the UFCW stood up to albertson's when they knowingly attempted to do things that were illegal.
When he was hurt, they tried to fire him, they tried to deny workman's comp.
When overhead started being a problem (which ironically is likely to have to do with the wages that management was being paid), they tried to fire him and all the other higher-paid employees with seniority in favor of hiring new, cheap employees.
Labor unions are still necessary, because the government is nothing if not incompetent in protecting workers on its own.
I'd have been raised a little homeless boy if not for a union lawyer.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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rod
Ψ
Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
#5909746 - 07/28/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I,m Pro Union also, but my last Union job was 1981. International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers ...
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,625
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: rod]
#5909809 - 07/28/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seems to me unions are now in existence, just for the hell of it. When I lived in Detriot, I saw many UAW workers get fucked. Here is an interesting story:
http://exparte.powerblogs.com/posts/1139589691.shtml
Dan Alban, Friday February 10, 2006 at 10:41am] The Appalling Labor Practices of...UNIONS???
This hilarious Detroit News article reveals that unions have been hiring the homeless - at minimum wage and without health care benefits - to picket at non-union job sites. Oh, the humanity! Oh, the hypocrisy!
In Washington, Baltimore, Atlanta and elsewhere in the country, union organizers are scouring shelters and recruiting homeless people to staff their picket lines, paying just above minimum wage and failing to provide health benefits.
The national carpenters' union, which broke from the AFL-CIO four years ago in a bitter dispute over organizing strategies and other issues, is hiring homeless people to stage noisy protests at nonunion construction sites.
"We're giving jobs to people who didn't have jobs, people who in some cases couldn't secure work," said George Eisner, head of the union's mid-Atlantic regional council in Baltimore.
God, I love these quotes. So, um, how exactly is this different from the employees at the non-union construction site that you're protesting? I wonder if these union schmucks realize the extent to which their defense of this practice undermines the whole purpose of unions.
Neil Bernstein, a law professor at Washington University in St. Louis who specializes in labor and employment law, said unions that use such a tactic are guilty of practicing a double standard.
"They're basically doing what they're criticizing the employers for doing — getting the cheapest people to do the job," he said.
What, unions not actually protecting the rights of their workers? Acting hypocritically? Igoring pro-labor ideology when it's inconvenient? I'm shocked, shocked.
"The fact that the people demonstrating were not members of the union doesn't make much difference," Sweeney said. "What matters is that the carpenters working on the building had no health care and no pension."
When it was noted that the homeless pickets also had no benefits, Sweeney responded: "Our hope is that those workers — that all workers — would have health benefits, but that is a bigger issue."
Gee, that's interesting. So all you have to do to make the union happy is HOPE that your workers would have health benefits? You don't have to actually do anything about it as an employer? I'm sure big business will be interested to hear this...
Sweeney expressed the hope that the homeless protesters "may work themselves into a full-time job where they would get benefits."
Yes, exactly! But then that kinda ruins the whole point of having unions, now doesn't it Johnny boy? (Ok, so it actually doesn't undermine the real purpose of having unions - consolidating power for and lining the pockets of union bigwigs & other...ahem...associates, and "progressive" political organization.)
A demonstrator in Washington, Nicey Howards, said the temporary protesters earn $8 an hour — just a dollar above the legal minimum wage in Washington — with no benefits. While she felt the job wasn't ideal, Howards was glad she could earn a little money while looking for something better.
Each week, Howards said, she works 20 hours, the maximum time allowed by the carpenters' union, bringing home $160.
The union organizers allow the hired protesters to take two-minute breaks, Howards said, but dock their pay for the time off.
God, someone needs to start a union for these people to save them from the horribly despotic...um...er...unions that are working them to the bone in sweatshop-like conditions!
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
#5910360 - 07/28/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odiumjunkie said: > (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for > unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no > excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour. He also reports that in order to suppliment this, it is standard practise (verging on mandatory) to tip service workers 20%. He reports that whenever he declined to do so, he was accused of not supporting poorly paid people.
This is entirely annocdotal, so if this is not the state of affairs in San Fransisco, please enlighten me. However, when I heard this, it seemed to me that, at least in that city, unionized labour would of huge benefit to workers and the public.
Certainly, in any case, $4.50 per hour does not seem to me to be a living wage.
your friend was probably a bartender or a waiter. jobs like these pay low wages as tips are expected. It is not uncommon to make 4 bucks an hour as a waiter on the clock because you often pull in $150 cash a night in tips.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5910931 - 07/29/06 01:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.
The only thing that scares them is unions. Which is why they are so desperate to go back 100 years to a time when unions didn't exist and they could treat workers like shit.
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
#5910961 - 07/29/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is not in a companies best interest to fire somebody "for no reason at all".
I really don't know where you live, but it must be in fairytale land where everything is rosey and perfect. A company can fire you for any reason at all, or for no apparent reason at all. Of course they will have a reason, but it does not at all have to be the reason they tell you. All they have to say is "we're sorry it's just not working out" or "we're sorry we have eliminated your job" even if such is not the case. With a union in place, a company can fire you and the union can get your job back if they didn't fire you for a damn good reason...in some cases. But like I said, at least with a union you have a CHANCE at getting your job back. Without one there is no protection at all, any fickle reason they have can be plenty cause for firing and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
My last job is a perfect example. Not going to go into details because it is boring and I'd rather not talk about my shitty job But as you should know, you are not eligible for unemployment if you are fired for a real reason. Yet I was awarded unemployment by the state I live in after being fired. Now why do you suppose they awarded me unemployment if companies don't fire people without a good reason? I was ready to leave that job anyway, but it sure was nice to mooch some unemployment because those bitches fired me for made up bullshit. Which if there had been a union I could have had them fight for my job back. My dad has told me of the union where he worked at, they had got a few different people hired back after they had been fired. So yeah, unions can play a good role even if some people only choose to see the bad.
I'm not saying unions are perfect or anything like that, in fact I think that in some companies they aren't really needed. And they do have their faults, but overall I think they offer the only real job protection in our workforce. It's really a moot point though, as they are dying out and will be gone completely given a few more decades, maybe less.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Alex213]
#5912227 - 07/29/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said:
Quote:
Seuss said: (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.
Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.
The only thing that scares them is unions. Which is why they are so desperate to go back 100 years to a time when unions didn't exist and they could treat workers like shit.
I'm sure there are plenty of companies that wish they could still get away with hiring Pinkertons to shoot strikers.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
#5912951 - 07/29/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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the problem with unions are the same problems that plague government, corporations, and often other large organizations that swim in money and power. that is not to say that all government, corporations, or unions are inherently bad - I'm sure we can all agree that all of these entities do provide some good to the world despite their shortcomings and abuse.
I think a remedy for corruption and the flight of power away from individuals further from the top is local organizations that work together in decentralized (or confederated) networks - but that's just my opinion.
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