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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism
    #5760424 - 06/17/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And THAT, my friends, is how the Corporate Cheap Labor Conservatives economics work, in a nutshell.

Out here where I live in Kitsap County, Wa. there is talk of a NASCAR track going up. Plenty of typical right wingnuts all supportive of the idea and claiming it will "create jobs". Plenty of good old regular folk protesting the idea and pointing out how it will negatively impact their neighborhoods. Well, the "debate" if you can call it that, came to my hometown just this last week. I must say, I now know more about the economics of NASCAR than I ever wanted to before. And it's actually quite fascinating how, because of the enlightening discussions I've read here, how I was able to see right through the bullshit straight to the heart of the matter, which, unfortunately, the speakers against the NASCAR track didn't do a good job of spelling out to the public. They gave everyone all the facts, but they didn't connect the dots.

That's what I'm going to do right now. This is how NASCAR works, exactly like Corporatism works in America.

First, some background info. The Corporation that wants to build a racetrack in Kitsap county is the International Speedway Corporation (ISC). Are they going to build the speedway with their own money? No, of course not. So much for that "rugged individualism" and "personal responsibility" the right wingnuts always bleat on about. Oh, these corporate types understand that the days of 100% publicly funded playgrounds for the rich are over, so they agree to fork up half the cost, but they insist that the state of Washington pay off the remaining $179 million.

Which begs the question: Why can't a corporation who's gross profits last year was $405.1 million and how profited $359.2 million the year before afford to fork up a measly $179 million extra out of its own pockets if building a NASCAR racetrack is such a damned fine marketing idea?

I'll get to that one later because it is at the root of what NASCAR is really trying to pull over on the public.

But first, let's take a look at the rest of the deal - t's not essential to this discussion, but the outrage of it just can't be ignored. These "side effects" are part and parcel with corporate exploitation. On the surface, it would seem to be that by having the government step in and help pay for this, the real benefit the ISC reaps is that they won't have to pay any property taxes. Yep, that's right, they get us to fork out for half the track, whey THEY are the defacto owners, and because it's now half government financed, they don't have to pay property taxes. Now, most folks, not being very informed, just shake their heads knowingly and think that's why NASCAR wants us to pay for half their track, that and they get to keep $179 million of course. I guarantee you, no property taxes are pretty low on the list of reasons to gull the public into paying half the costs of this construction.

But before I move on, let me point out something interesting: the ISC projects as one of their "selling points" that increased sales taxes from out of state visitors due to the NASCAR events would increase state coffers to the tune of $1.8 million annually. What they don't mention is that the property taxes they avoid by having us pay for half of it come to $3.5 million annually. So we not only accept a total tax burden of nearly $500 million dollars (after debt burden with interest is factored in), but we would be would be agreeing to lose out on 2 thirds of the revenue the site would generate for state taxes. A real loser proposition if ever there was one.

Okay, as I said, those are all just numbers that concern, and hopefully outrage, the local populace. What concerns you and I and anyone who wants to know how this NASCAR proposal is really just a microcosm of corporatism and its effects upon our society, is the realwhy it's so important to NASCAR that we fund half this thing. To understand that, let me explain the economics of NASCAR.

NASCAR's stated goal is to have 50 racetracks in operation. Nice round number that one. 50. One for every state I suppose. But of course, it isn't. Not every state is that stupid. Some states are doubly stupid of course, so NASCAR is close to realizing its goal.

Now, NASCAR only holds 38 sanctioned events. So one has to wonder why NASCAR needs 50 racetracks to hold 38 sanctioned events. I bet our readers here could tell us why in a heartbeat. For the same reason cheap labor conservatives need unemployment. Full employment raises the demand for labor which in turn raises workers wages. Full employment for NASCAR means every racetrack has a sanctioned race. Which means no leverage for the ISC over the track owners. So by creating a gap between tracks and races, the ISC can get the best deals. Problem is, if the ISC owns all it's own racetracks, then it's like that commercial where the exec says he's "sticking it to the man" and his employee points out "but you are the man!".

That's where WE come in. You know, Joe Taxpayer. That's right, they want to stick it to us. You see, if WE pay for half the track and then NASCAR says, "oh gee, we (their WE being the ISC, not the ISC and the states taxpayers) need more seats to be profitable. We need more safety barriers. We need bigger and better luxury suites for our elite clientele doncha know? You ever sit in one of those luxury suites? I did. Once. To a Mariners game. Because the supermarket picked my little girls drawing out of a box. That's about as likely a chance as Joe Taxpayer is ever going to get to reaping the benefits of his tax dollars. Paying for bigger better luxury suites for guys who make more in a day than you or I will make in our lifetimes.

And why will we pay for these things? Because we'll HAVE to. You see, if WE (and I literally mean you and I, the average taxpayer, NOT the ISC) don't pay for these upgrades, then NASCAR and the ISC will just take their race elsewhere and that big expensive racetrack will sit idle for an entire year and all those out of state dollars that WE, the taxpayers, will be depending on to pay off that money we borrowed to build this boondoggle will dry right up. And so we will get mad.

And who will we get mad at when we realize we've been bamboozled? At NASCAR? What good will that do? They are a corporation. They aren't responsible to the public and we can't hold them accountable. No. We'll get mad at our legislators. So guess who will save their jobs by signing us up for even MORE taxes to pay for upgrades to a track that only profits a corporation that already makes half a billion dollars a year? I think even our children can spell "over a barrel".

That's the REAL reason they need us to finance half this track. It's how they put us over the barrel. Without us, they couldn't put all the tracks over a barrel by simply forcing 24% unemployment upon the track owners. Gee, where did I just read about 24% unemployment rates before? Oh yeah, that's the figure someone was quoting as being the unemployment rate during the Great Depression.

And THAT, my friends, is how the Corporate Cheap Labor Conservatives economics work, in a nutshell.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

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Invisibletak
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5761713 - 06/17/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i enjoyed reading that. sorry i have nothing to contribute, but i tip my hat to you


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InvisibleTheDude
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5762784 - 06/18/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

NASCAR + Peak Oil = Angry Rednecks


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger

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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5762940 - 06/18/06 01:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

carbonhoots said:
First, some background info. The Corporation that wants to build a racetrack in Kitsap county is the International Speedway Corporation (ISC). Are they going to build the speedway with their own money? No, of course not. So much for that "rugged individualism" and "personal responsibility" the right wingnuts always bleat on about.



While I'm not in total agreement with public funds being used for this endeavour, I don't think that it goes against the tenants of any real political system that has the interest of it's citizens at heart, those being individualism and personal responsibility.
Quote:


Oh, these corporate types understand that the days of 100% publicly funded playgrounds for the rich are over, so they agree to fork up half the cost, but they insist that the state of Washington pay off the remaining $179 million.



Well, it is quite an attraction, it will provide jobs and it will benefit the people of Washington state. Perhaps that is in the power of the legislators to do, but with the stipulation that the benefit go to all citizens, ideally in the form of state income taxes. The state taxes on goods will be much higher if this track really brings loads of people to the state, which it definatly will.
Quote:


Which begs the question: Why can't a corporation who's gross profits last year was $405.1 million and how profited $359.2 million the year before afford to fork up a measly $179 million extra out of its own pockets if building a NASCAR racetrack is such a damned fine marketing idea?



Because that would cost them one years profits. Why can't you do this without bringing numbers into it? Refer to RandalFlaggs point 1 on Political Correctness. The argument of "That guy is so rich he can AFFORD IT" is subjective and capricious. What if some gay, Mexican transvestite wanted to build a gay sex toy shop but, alas, he didn't have the money? Would you support supporting that guy? If the state believes that investing the taxpayers money, and this would have to be by popular vote, ideally with a 80%+ majority, then they should do it. They'd definatly come off ahead financially.
Quote:


I guarantee you, no property taxes are pretty low on the list of reasons to gull the public into paying half the costs of this construction.



So is it your opinion that building this track will be bad for the local community? I very strongly doubt it. I've been in race towns during race season and they make beaucoup bucks. Most of them are glad to have the track in their town.
Quote:

What they don't mention is that the property taxes they avoid by having us pay for half of it come to $3.5 million annually. So we not only accept a total tax burden of nearly $500 million dollars (after debt burden with interest is factored in), but we would be would be agreeing to lose out on 2 thirds of the revenue the site would generate for state taxes. A real loser proposition if ever there was one.



Not really. If the company DOESN'T build the track, then the state won't make any money on the property taxes. If the company DOES build the track, the state will be making $1.8mil a year, or whatever the projections are. So the company is stating "Hey, if you want to make some more money, let us come in at a cheaper rate". Thats how business works. Would you rather the $1.8mil, or not make $3.whatever mil?
Quote:


Okay, as I said, those are all just numbers that concern, and hopefully outrage, the local populace.



I'm sure that they are outraged. "I don't want a job! I'm tired of the economic rut we've found ourselves in, lets not contribute a little bit so that we can have a gigantic, growing industry set up in our back yards". I bet they are out demanding to be paid less money on a daily basis.
Quote:


NASCAR's stated goal is to have 50 racetracks in operation. Nice round number that one. 50. One for every state I suppose. But of course, it isn't. Not every state is that stupid. Some states are doubly stupid of course, so NASCAR is close to realizing its goal.



How is it stupid to put in a NASCAR track? Cities with NASCAR tracks do pretty well financially. The leftists righteous indignation that you feel doesn't support their kids, doesn't buy cars and doesn't improve financial status' of the people in these towns.
Quote:


Now, NASCAR only holds 38 sanctioned events. So one has to wonder why NASCAR needs 50 racetracks to hold 38 sanctioned events. I bet our readers here could tell us why in a heartbeat. For the same reason cheap labor conservatives need unemployment. Full employment raises the demand for labor which in turn raises workers wages. Full employment for NASCAR means every racetrack has a sanctioned race. Which means no leverage for the ISC over the track owners. So by creating a gap between tracks and races, the ISC can get the best deals. Problem is, if the ISC owns all it's own racetracks, then it's like that commercial where the exec says he's "sticking it to the man" and his employee points out "but you are the man!".



You don't know much about racing, do you? The track will be used for NASCAR events and THOUSANDS of other races. If race tracks got used once a year, do you think that their would be so many succssful racetowns like Charlottesville and Rockingham? What about Busch series racing? What about NASCAR truck racing? What about the smaller circuit races that still attract huge crowds? I guess leftist liberals don't know anything about what they consider a "Redneck" sport.
Quote:


Paying for bigger better luxury suites for guys who make more in a day than you or I will make in our lifetimes.



wahh! Wahh! Waaah!
Quote:


And why will we pay for these things? Because we'll HAVE to. You see, if WE (and I literally mean you and I, the average taxpayer, NOT the ISC) don't pay for these upgrades, then NASCAR and the ISC will just take their race elsewhere and that big expensive racetrack will sit idle for an entire year and all those out of state dollars that WE, the taxpayers, will be depending on to pay off that money we borrowed to build this boondoggle will dry right up. And so we will get mad.




Once again, you know nothing about racing.
http://www.northcarolinaspeedway.com/schedules/overall%5Fschedule/

Look at that! A NASCAR track with more than one race a year! It's almost as if your comprehensive report by a guerilla news agency only looked at one side of the issue, perish the thought! Looks like AT LEAST one race event a week.

And whats that! Driving schools? Another way for thet racks to make money that you haven't mentioned at all. Private races? What are they, golly I wonder, and do they cost anything? I bet they do! Are cities that have race-tracks doing well, or poorly? Well! Of course they are!

Quote:


That's the REAL reason they need us to finance half this track. It's how they put us over the barrel. Without us, they couldn't put all the tracks over a barrel by simply forcing 24% unemployment upon the track owners. Gee, where did I just read about 24% unemployment rates before? Oh yeah, that's the figure someone was quoting as being the unemployment rate during the Great Depression.



So you don't think that a company that puts down half a years profit into a track will bother to maintain the track or run it in a way that keeps employees? I really, really doubt that. How do you have a 24% unemployment rate among track owners? are 24% of them out of a job? is that the rate in the local towns? What the hell does that made-up figure mean?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5762995 - 06/18/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Excellent post  :thumbup:

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5763342 - 06/18/06 05:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Refer to RandalFlaggs point 1 on Political Correctness. The argument of "That guy is so rich he can AFFORD IT" is subjective and capricious.




Woah...don't drag me into this one. While the "class-warfare" tone of the article is lame, I emphatically believe that public funds should not be appropriated for crap like this.

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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5763344 - 06/18/06 05:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Even if 100% of the taxpayers want it?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5763378 - 06/18/06 05:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Even if 100% of the taxpayers want it?




Well, if 100% of taxpayers wanted it then they could willingly contribute money to building it....much like giving to charity. But, there's no way that 100% of the affected taxpayers want this track.

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OfflineMagillaGorilla
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5763413 - 06/18/06 06:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

What they don't mention is that the property taxes they avoid by having us pay for half of it come to $3.5 million annually. So we not only accept a total tax burden of nearly $500 million dollars (after debt burden with interest is factored in), but we would be would be agreeing to lose out on 2 thirds of the revenue the site would generate for state taxes. A real loser proposition if ever there was one.




Not really. If the company DOESN'T build the track, then the state won't make any money on the property taxes. If the company DOES build the track, the state will be making $1.8mil a year, or whatever the projections are. So the company is stating "Hey, if you want to make some more money, let us come in at a cheaper rate". Thats how business works. Would you rather the $1.8mil, or not make $3.whatever mil?





The state still is not making money on the property taxes. If the state builds the track, they are out ~$679m, if his figures are correct; now, at a rate of $1.8m in increased tax revenue from out of state visitors (once again, if the figures are correct), it will take the state approximately 378 years to recover this expense. How else is Washington going to afford this staggering loss other then raising taxes in other areas, or raising the general cost of living in the state?
Now, I don’t have a figure for in-state customers, but I assume it would be in the close ballpark; let us assume $2.5m.  So, with increased tax revenue of $4.3m per year, it would still take 158 years to make up for the cost…. Yeah, I don’t see much of a benefit here.


Quote:

Quote:

Paying for bigger better luxury suites for guys who make more in a day than you or I will make in our lifetimes.



wahh! Wahh! Waaah!




This is an interesting attitude… Are YOU ever going to see the perks of these extra expenses?
Seriously, if your congressman phoned you and said, “Hey there, we’re thinking of introducing a new tax… What for? Oh, well y’see, the fellows down at ISC wanted a new shark bar, and some fresh upholstery in their luxury room at the NASCAR track because they’ve got a big oil tycoon coming through in a few months, and it’s going to put us out a few million bucks – and we were thinking we could get our citizens to pay for it, since ISC doesn’t really want to,” would you approve? I know this is an extreme situation, but it’s basically what would occur. 

The people using the luxury boxes also aren’t putting anything extra into the economy by using such a room – they are usually there by invitation only, and any costs they do pay do not go to Washington State, but instead directly to the owning company; in this case, ISC.


Most of your other points are quite valid; the track does indeed hold far more then 1 sanctioned race a year (or however many NASCAR decides to put on there) but is also rented by private concnerns, and other minor circuit racing.
The main problem is DEMAND; do people in the surrounding area really enjoy racing enough to make the track viable? This is likely a question to be addressed before the track is built, however.

Though all this is coming from a person who wholeheartedly disagrees with NASCAR and the blatant waste/commercialism associated with it, so y'know.. Grain of salt  :stoned:

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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: MagillaGorilla]
    #5763442 - 06/18/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MagillaGorilla said:
This is an interesting attitude… Are YOU ever going to see the perks of these extra expenses?




I was only complaining about the typical "these guys just have too much money!" attitude.  I'm all about minimal government involvement and minimum taxation.  I don't think that my tax dollars should be used to build anything that isn't basic necessity.  If 90% of the state voted to build the track, well, I guess thats that.
Quote:


Though all this is coming from a person who wholeheartedly disagrees with NASCAR and the blatant waste/commercialism associated with it, so y'know.. Grain of salt  :stoned:



Yea, I'm not a NASCAR lover myself.  Watching cars drive around in a circle for five hours sounds like it would be tremendously boring.  Nonetheless, I think that a track would be beneficial if it were placed in the proper location and I think that the communities near it would make loads of money.  I also think that the state should tell the company to fuck off, that it's not THEIR money to invest, it's the citizens money and that, if they could spare 200 mil, they'd just return it to the citizens.


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OfflineMagillaGorilla
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5763446 - 06/18/06 06:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ah, it seems we have similar views on the matter..

Quote:

Watching cars drive around in a circle for five hours sounds like it would be tremendously boring




It is, I've tried it.

Quote:

think that a track would be beneficial if it were placed in the proper location and I think that the communities near it would make loads of money




I agree.

Quote:

I also think that the state should tell the company to fuck off, that it's not THEIR money to invest, it's the citizens money and that, if they could spare 200 mil, they'd just return it to the citizens




Once again, I agree - if only the world really worked like that, eh?
Cheers  :toast:

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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: The NASCAR racetrack and American corporatism [Re: MagillaGorilla]
    #5763456 - 06/18/06 06:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yea, sadly the real world doesn't work that way. :wink:

Cheers


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