|
 DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
 Good, Evil, and Free Will 
#5688753 - 05/29/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Good, evil, and free will can be thought of as 3 points on a triangle.
Freedom depends on evil to exist.
Though good could easily destroy evil, it allows evil to exist for the sake of free will.
For in a universe that was nothing but good, there would be no freedom.
Though good and evil are enemies, they tolerate eachother in the name of freedom.
Though some blame good for the existence of evil, and some blame freedom for the existence of evil,
the real entity to blame for evil is the person who commits it without good cause!
|
 it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688779 - 05/29/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
If free will really does exist and our actions are not the product of causality, then we would have to concede that our actions are completely random, and therefore, not free.
What thinkest thou?
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
completely random
yes, it was a completely random chance that the universe expanded at the critical rate after the big bang to facilitate the formation of stars, galaxies, and planets.
yes, it was completely random that amino acids formed protiens which led to single-celled organisms and later more complex life.
Yes, the mathematical patterns found everywhere in nature are completely random.
Hey, guess what? I have a bridge for sale. Would you like to buy it? 
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688804 - 05/29/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DoctorJ said:
yes, it was a completely random chance that the universe expanded at the critical rate after the big bang to facilitate the formation of stars, galaxies, and planets.
yes, it was completely random that amino acids formed protiens which led to single-celled organisms and later more complex life.
Indeed, so where does free will come in? Was it when the first human organism was spawned? Did a magical light shine down from the heavens and exempt this noble creature and all of his descendants from the physical laws of Nature?
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
free will came in when life became conscious enough to accept it.
freedom is the true nature of spirit.
the material world is bound by cause and effect.
spirit conforms to much higher laws, but ultimately it conforms to no law but its own. Some spirits are bound by karma, and some are more advanced than this.
"The Tao follows its own ways."
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688843 - 05/29/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DoctorJ said:
the material world is bound by cause and effect.
Yes, and your physical body resides in the material world. It seems that you are proposing that you exist as a physical body in the material world, "bound by cause and effect," but at the same time possess a seperate faculty outside of the material world from which your will derives; strangely enough, the products of your will, your actions, occur in the material world as well, so on what grounds do you assume the existence of this seperate spiritual realm?
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688854 - 05/29/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
“When I analyze the process that is expressed in the sentence, “I think,” I find a whole series of daring assertions that would be difficult, perhaps impossible, to prove; for example, that it is I who think, that there must necessarily be something that thinks, that thinking is an activity and operation on the part of a being who is thought of as a cause, that there is an “ego,” and, finally, that it is already determined what is to be designated by thinking -- that I know what thinking is. For if I had not already decided within myself what it is, by what standard could I determine whether that which is just happening is not perhaps “willing” or “feeling?” In short, the assertion “I think” assumes that I compare my state at the present moment with other states of myself which I know, in order to determine what it is.
A thought comes when “it” wishes, and when “I” wish, so that it is a falsification of the facts of the case to say that the subject “I” is the condition of the predicate “think.” It thinks; but that this “it” is precisely the famous old “ego” is, to put it mildly, only a supposition, an assertion, and assuredly not an “immediate certainty.” After all, one has gone too far with this “it thinks” -- even the “it” contains an interpretation of the process, and does not belong to the process itself. One infers here according to the grammatical habit: ‘Thinking is an activity; every activity requires an agent; consequently--” --Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
thats my stance, believe it or not, I don't care.
here, try this one on for size:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
|
shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688901 - 05/29/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
These three are certainly related to the point of being a single philosophical problem.
The problematic of evil is difficult when one considers that God is Good.
A good God would not create evil. He would only create good. Yet, God creates beings that are free to choose evil. But if he creates them completely good, then why would they choose evil? It seems that for one to choose evil, there must be some defect in his being. What good rational being would ever freely choose evil?
Some say freedom itself is the defect, but without freedom, love is not possible.
I am convinced that a fourth term needs to be added to the equation, and that fourth term is love. What we are considering is not a triangle of Good, Evil, and Freedom, but rather a tetrahedron: Freedom, Good, Evil, and Love.
A similar tetrahedron exists when considering the four transcendental perfections of being: The One, the True, the Good, and the Beautiful. Some of the medievals dismissed beauty as a mere subjective apprehension of the Good. However, Plato clearly connected the Beautiful with love in his Symposium. In fact, he asserts that beauty is the first of the transcendental forms to be perceived. We know that something is good or true because we perceive it to be beautiful, and we love that which is beatiful. Only through love can one every aproach the One, the True or the Good.
The key to reality is love.
"God is love."
"Without Love in the dream it will never come true."
"Without Love in the dream it will never come true"
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
#5688914 - 05/29/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
those who are deceptive have been decieved
for satan is a deciever.
he convinces us that 'I' am more important than 'you'.
he plays to our ego and tries to make existence appear as a competition!
If you see a you and a me, you are being decieved! Satan is on your shoulder, whispering lies into your mind. For truly, we are one.
But if satan didn't do such things, he would not be Satan!
Do't hate the man for doing his job!
he is a tester of the wisdom of souls,
and nothing more.
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
#5688923 - 05/29/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
shroomydan said:
without freedom, love is not possible.
I don't believe in free will, yet I am currently in love. Sure, in essence it is merely a biologically determined emotional response, but I don't see how this makes it any less pleasant, rewarding, or real.
|
shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
|
|
Chemically driven erotic love or infatuation is distinct from self sacrificial love that seeks the good of the other over the good of self. The Greeks called this later kind of love agape.
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
#5688964 - 05/29/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
How can you classify love into different categories if it is always and without exception a subjective experience?
How is altruism incompatible with determinism? Is it not also "chemically driven?" If not, from where is it derived?
|
shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5688966 - 05/29/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
The question is why did Satan fall. If God created him good, then why did he choose evil? It is a mystery which cannot be answered.
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
#5688982 - 05/29/06 11:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
God created him to fall. That was the point.
Satan is God's wisest angel.
Wisdom comes through suffering.
Before the advent of Satan, God was naive. He created evil to gain wisdom.
You cannot rebel against God. Kill him, and he reapears, and you disappear. Rebel against him but you were really working for him the whole time.
you can't fuck God. You can only fuck yourself by going against Him.
|
capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
#5689009 - 05/29/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
itstarssaddamm, you definitely have gone into the infinite continuum of correlations, I used to do this alot myself and found this exercise of the mind to be useful in certain situations but also pointless in others, Can I ask you what have you gained, intuitive wise from your mental search.
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
#5689016 - 05/29/06 11:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DoctorJ said:
you can't fuck God.
I've known women who often fantasized about doing so.
|
DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
send em my way, I'm a real close relative 
|
it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
|
Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: capliberty]
#5689020 - 05/29/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
capliberty said:
itstarssaddamm, you definitely have gone into the infinite continuum of correlations
Elaborate.
|
capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
|
|
correlations, its like subjective logic to correlate and analysis the world. How you try to differentiate and postulate the nature of reality.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Red Vein Kratom
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
lucid
shroomydan
SneezingPenis
silversoul7
World Spirit
NiamhNyx
Muppet