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IGnosticAbhorI
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Generations and Isolates
#5637892 - 05/16/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Generations are what by definition?
I think a generation is when you isolate mycelium on petri plates (usually for rhizos to get a good fast colonizer). And if you continue to do to many you'll get something that will colonize like a bitdch but won't fruit.
Can any one give me the scientific definitions, lol.
I'm trying to better articulate myself so that I can understand it better. And be more correct, i'm not sure if i'm right on all of what I just said...
TIA
-Gnostic
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Wronguy
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I'm going to move you over to Advanced Mycology. You'll get much better answers in that forum.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: Wronguy]
#5639030 - 05/16/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would consider a 'generation' to begin with a successful spore mating. In my opinion, you could expand it until the cows come home, and it's still first generation, until you fruit it to obtain spores, which could begin the second generation.
Senescence is what you're thinking of when you expand the mycelium too far. RR
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hyphae
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5639265 - 05/16/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would think cloning from a fruitbody then fruiting that then cloning again from that fruitbody would be second generation but I also believe that once isolated it's not a matter of generations only a matter of how far the myc will travel before succumbing to senescencing. In otherwords my first example is the same as my second IMO. RR's example would mean that even starting with that first successful germination you'd be starting with an incredible amount of generations already. So we would be starting with the 10,000th generation perhaps who knows?
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Brainiac
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: hyphae]
#5639800 - 05/16/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Look it up in TMC & GGMM books
-------------------- Fair is Fair
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texas34
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: Brainiac]
#5640538 - 05/17/06 12:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would say that generations can be used in both situations but only loosely with the number of transfers to new plates or whatever. Roger's definition is the purest, referring to the generations of sexual offspring. Same as generations in humans. Stamets uses quotation marks around generations when mentioning the subject in TMC. Doesn't say much else after that. He unveils his Stamets "P" value system in GGMM, which simply puts a P before the transfer number. So the first isolate is P1, and P4 is the fourth plate of media to be used (3 transfers). T34
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fastfred
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: texas34]
#5640601 - 05/17/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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A "generation" with respect to fungi means the same as it does with every other sexual organism. Your parents are one generation, you are the next generation, your children are the next generation and so on. 10,000 spores may germinate on the same plate, but they are all the same generation.
The only confusion is when you try to apply the term loosely and to a broad number of individuals. It's tempting to say generation X, the baby boomer generation, etc.. In that case the term applies to everyone born in a certain range of time as a single generation. Their children might be born after different lengths of time, so the children of generation X might belong to different "generations", but it is still only one genration from any parent to their offspring.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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Feelers
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: fastfred]
#5640806 - 05/17/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you took a skin graft and grew the skin cells you wouldnt call that another generation. Same goes for fungi.
What do you call the secondary set of "vegetative" growth? ie taking a cell, growing it out, then taking a cell from that. Is there a specific term for the new "generation" of cells?
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texas34
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: Feelers]
#5641058 - 05/17/06 07:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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They should be called clones. Check out the definition at Dictionary.com. The bacterial/asexual definitions are the ones that apply. T34
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texas34
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: texas34]
#5641422 - 05/17/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I talked to a more experienced mycologist about what to call successive plates of grow. This person felt it would be more appropriate to just call it the strain name but keep track of the number of transfers. Since funny things like mitotic recombination can occur, you can't be entirely sure that you have a true clone (exact same genetic content) each time you transfer. Most of the time you would have clonal growth but sometimes you might not. T34
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hyphae
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: texas34]
#5641516 - 05/17/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I totally agree in mycology generations are really not a correct term to use G1's G'2 and G3's are just a number of transfers.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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fastfred
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Posts: 6,899
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Re: Generations and Isolates [Re: hyphae]
#5643735 - 05/17/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The term I see used in papers most often for successive transfers is "subcultures". As in "Isolate D12 was subcultured three times and then transfered to liquid media."
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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