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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR?
    #5454448 - 03/29/06 09:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/64677.htm

March 5, 2006 -- BAGHDAD

I'M trying. I've been trying all week. The other day, I drove another 30 miles or so on the streets and alleys of Baghdad. I'm looking for the civil war that The New York Times declared. And I just can't find it.

Maybe actually being on the ground in Iraq prevents me from seeing it. Perhaps the view's clearer from Manhattan. It could be that my background as an intelligence officer didn't give me the right skills.



And riding around with the U.S. Army, looking at things first-hand, is certainly a technique to which The New York Times wouldn't stoop in such an hour of crisis.

Let me tell you what I saw anyway. Rolling with the "instant Infantry" gunners of the 1st Platoon of Bravo Battery, 4-320 Field Artillery, I saw children and teenagers in a Shia slum jumping up and down and cheering our troops as they drove by. Cheering our troops.

All day - and it was a long day - we drove through Shia and Sunni neighborhoods. Everywhere, the reception was warm. No violence. None.

And no hostility toward our troops. Iraqis went out of their way to tell us we were welcome.

Instead of a civil war, something very different happened because of the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra. The fanatic attempt to stir up Sunni-vs.-Shia strife, and the subsequent spate of violent attacks, caused popular support for the U.S. presence to spike upward.

Think Abu Musab al-Zarqawi intended that?

In place of the civil war that elements in our media declared, I saw full streets, open shops, traffic jams, donkey carts, Muslim holiday flags - and children everywhere, waving as our Humvees passed. Even the clouds of dust we stirred up didn't deter them. And the presence of children in the streets is the best possible indicator of a low threat level.

Southeast Baghdad, at least, was happy to see our troops.

And we didn't just drive past them. First Lt. Clenn Frost, the platoon leader, took every opportunity to dismount and mingle with the people. Women brought their children out of their compound gates to say hello. A local sheik spontaneously invited us into his garden for colas and sesame biscuits.

It wasn't the Age of Aquarius. The people had serious concerns. And security was No. 1. They wanted the Americans to crack down harder on the foreign terrorists and to disarm the local militias. Iraqis don't like and don't support the militias, Shia or Sunni, which are nothing more than armed gangs.

Help's on the way, if slowly. The Iraqi Army has confounded its Western critics, performing extremely well last week. And the people trust their new army to an encouraging degree. The Iraqi police aren't all the way there yet, and the population doesn't yet have much confidence in them. But all of this takes time.

And even the police are making progress. We took a team of them with us so they could train beside our troops. We visited a Public Order Battalion - a gendarmerie outfit - that reeked of sloth and carelessness. But the regular Iraqi Police outfit down the road proved surprisingly enthusiastic and professional. It's just an uneven, difficult, frustrating process.

So what did I learn from a day in the dust and muck of Baghdad's less-desirable boroughs? As the long winter twilight faded into haze and the fires of the busy shawarma stands blazed in the fresh night, I felt that Iraq was headed, however awkwardly, in the right direction.

The country may still see a civil war one day. But not just yet, thanks. Violence continues. A roadside bomb was found in the next sector to the west. There will be more deaths, including some of our own troops. But Baghdad's vibrant life has not been killed. And the people of Iraq just might surprise us all.

So why were we told that Iraq was irreversibly in the throes of civil war when it wasn't remotely true? I think the answers are straightforward. First, of course, some parties in the West are anxious to believe the worst about Iraq. They've staked their reputations on Iraq's failure.

But there's no way we can let irresponsible journalists off the hook - or their parent organizations. Many journalists are, indeed, brave and conscientious; yet some in Baghdad - working for "prestigious" publications - aren't out on the city streets the way they pretend to be.

They're safe in their enclaves, protected by hired guns, complaining that it's too dangerous out on the streets. They're only in Baghdad for the byline, and they might as well let their Iraqi employees phone it in to the States. Whenever you see a column filed from Baghdad by a semi-celeb journalist with a "contribution" by a local Iraqi, it means this: The Iraqi went out and got the story, while the journalist stayed in his or her room.

And the Iraqi stringers have cracked the code: The Americans don't pay for good news. So they exaggerate the bad.

And some of them have agendas of their own.

A few days ago, a wild claim that the Baghdad morgue held 1,300 bodies was treated as Gospel truth. Yet Iraqis exaggerate madly and often have partisan interests. Did any Western reporter go to that morgue and count the bodies - a rough count would have done it - before telling the world the news?

I doubt it.

If reporters really care, it's easy to get out on the streets of Baghdad. The 506th Infantry Regiment - and other great military units - will take journalists on their patrols virtually anywhere in the city. Our troops are great to work with. (Of course, there's the danger of becoming infected with patriot- ism . . .)

I'm just afraid that some of our journalists don't want to know the truth anymore.

For me, though, memories of Baghdad will be the cannoneers of the 1st Platoon walking the dusty, reeking alleys of Baghdad. I'll recall 1st Lt. Frost conducting diplomacy with the locals and leading his men through a date-palm grove in a search for insurgent mortar sites.

I'll remember that lieutenant investigating the murder of a Sunni mullah during last week's disturbances, cracking down on black-marketers, checking up on sewer construction, reassuring citizens - and generally doing the job of a lieutenant-colonel in peacetime.

Oh, and I'll remember those "radical Shias" cheering our patrol as we passed by.

Ralph Peters is reporting from Forward Operating Base Loyalty, where he's been riding with the 506th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineACN45
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5454886 - 03/29/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Theres so much conflicting "evidence," I guess thats the word. Who should we believe? Why take this post for any validity when there are others saying the exact opposite and vice-versa. The only way to get a half decent account of what is really happening in Iraq is from Iraqi blogs, but even those can be biased. No one in America should ever act or feel like they know what is actually going on over there unless they have actually been and mingled with the Iraqi people. I hope for the best, but I am gradually loosing confidence in everything i read about the Iraq war no matter what is said.

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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: ACN45]
    #5455611 - 03/29/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

There's a civil war in France.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Luddite]
    #5455746 - 03/29/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

More like an invasion

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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5456218 - 03/29/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5456312 - 03/29/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

When in doubt blame the media.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: zorbman]
    #5456367 - 03/29/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
When in doubt blame the media.


The media who says there is a civil war, or the media who says there isnt?

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OfflineTwirling
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Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: ACN45]
    #5457127 - 03/29/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
Theres so much conflicting "evidence," I guess thats the word. Who should we believe? Why take this post for any validity when there are others saying the exact opposite and vice-versa.




I agree, especially when it's coming from the NY Post, voted least crediable newspaper in NYC (according to Wikipedia). Besides, the NY Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and is formatted more like a tabliod than a newspaper.

There are plenty of Iraqi blogs suggestting that the situation in Iraq is civil-war/boarderline civil war. Whether or not that's the case, I don't know, but I'm more inclined to believe that than a retired military man editoralizing for the NY Post.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Twirling]
    #5457382 - 03/29/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Whether or not that's the case, I don't know, but I'm more inclined to believe that than a retired military man editoralizing for the NY Post.




exactly

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5457846 - 03/30/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

And riding around with the U.S. Army

No doubt his army escorts realise what a useful idiot he is and drive him around avoiding the areas of Baghdad where the bodies are hanging from electricity pylons.

This is the same fuckwit that Phred posts op-eds by. His purpose appears to be to write op-eds about how everything is going fantastically well in Iraq regardless of the truth.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458175 - 03/30/06 04:12 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Having spoken, in person, with actual soldiers that have returned from Iraq, my impression based upon their statements is that the US media is completely out of touch with reality in Iraq. The biggest complaint I hear is that US media tends to fixate on a single topic, be it good or bad, and never steps back to see the larger picture. The stories told by the two soldiers I know match up to Phred's op-ed posts, for the most part.

Quote:

No doubt his army escorts realise what a useful idiot he is and drive him around avoiding the areas of Baghdad where the bodies are hanging from electricity pylons.




No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about on this one. Army escorts? An embedded journalist does not get an escort. They do get to travel with military units during SOP. The SOP does not change because a journalist is in the group. Don't confuse the CNN yoyo's that we see on TV with the embedded journalist. They are very different.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Seuss]
    #5458213 - 03/30/06 04:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Having spoken, in person, with actual soldiers that have returned from Iraq

Obviously I could provide you with as many soldiers returning from Iraq saying the exact opposite. The SAS man I recently posted about for example.

Army escorts? An embedded journalist does not get an escort

You misunderstand. I was using escort in the sense that the army accompanies him. Not in the sense that he decides where to go and then the army provides troops to go with him.

The SOP does not change because a journalist is in the group.

Rest assured the army will pick and choose precisely which missions embedded journalists are allowed to accompany. That's generally why embedded journalists view of the situation is so renowned for being biased, inaccurate and worthless. As any serious journalist will tell you.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458238 - 03/30/06 05:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

> As any serious journalist will tell you.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to discuss this face to face with a journalist that has been embedded.  I am very curious what they would have to say.  :smile:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: Seuss]
    #5458487 - 03/30/06 07:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have two buddies in Iraq whom have served in Iraq. One has returned...and his story as someone who went out on patrol is basically: "Iraq is a total fucking mess." The other is working in a secured, US-controlled area (green zone perhaps? no idea) working as a MP. He says things arent so bad.

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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: DUDE, WHERE'S MY CIVIL WAR? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5460975 - 03/30/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, I hope you know that the credibility of the New York Post is on about the same level as Weekly World News.

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