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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?!
    #5433633 - 03/23/06 09:54 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Ok, so as usual im trying to get shroomery involved with my schoolwork, and IM having some difficulty organizing thought and fluidity of ideas.

I'm writing a paper about technological dystopian images in the films Cube, Pi, and possibly the documentary No Maps For These Territories.

I'm using Cube to transition the idea of technology as an omnipresent part of our lives, to looking at it as an vast network which we have no ability to step back and look at the bigger picture anymore...we have..no maps for technological territories, if you will.

The basic premise of Cube construes being trapped in a technologically mediated world with no maps to find your way out. There are many subtleties about humans being tools and cogs in a greater machine througout the film.

Pi I will use to explore the ideological split, if a map is to be found concerning technology. (the jewish organization looks to return the world to a state of nature, the wallstreet organization looks to push farther into a technologically emersed world.)

I believe this should be a statement about human nature and technological nature, and how tied together we are...and how its negative.

Any discussion pertaining to this topic would be great. I feel like I know what I want to say but I cant give it order and context, and that getting a discussion going on it will help give me more idea on how to structure it.

So go ahead, how do you view technology considering these implications, what do you think these films are saying about it.

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5433680 - 03/23/06 10:02 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Terminator!


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5433692 - 03/23/06 10:06 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

being trapped in a technologically mediated world with no maps to find your way out. There are many subtleties about humans being tools and cogs in a greater machine




the matrix comes to mind


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: daimyo]
    #5433720 - 03/23/06 10:10 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

I hate technology, it's runing the world. The internet is the only good thing to come out of all this nonsense, but if everything else were gone, there'd be no need for it anyhow. If it were up to me the world's populations would go back to farming/hunting, and not knowing each other existed.

Read Me


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: daimyo]
    #5433728 - 03/23/06 10:12 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

the local pub used to be the "chat room" or "message board". That was the purpose they served.

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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: Schwip]
    #5433764 - 03/23/06 10:19 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

The matrix can definitly be intertwined in this theory, im considering using it instead if I cannot find the documentary.

hmm,
maybe I should ask you guys some questions concerning the topic.

Do you feel that you are so emmersed in technology that you cannot escape it in sense?

What are some of the negative aspects of technology to you?

How do you think some of these films (matrix included) translate as metaphores for your reality?

Right now Im looking at cubes visual aspects, concerning uniformity, and walls that look like circutry as metaphors for the digital era, and the internet.

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5433773 - 03/23/06 10:21 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Cube was a stupid movie and the allusion to humans beings cogs ina greater machine is fabricated.

I can kind of see where you are coming cfrom with the first interpretation though.

Technology is a double edged sword. It isn't in my opinion necessarily the technology that is so horrid, its the blatant misuse and irresponsible stance mankind has taken towards it. It should be used sparringly and with much more thought given to the effects that may meander out of the woodwork later in time.

For instance, it may be possible to power the internet and the worlds suplly of computers with hydroelectric power, a very non invasive and enviornemtally sensitive proceedure, well as sensitive as can be. There wouyld be no harm in that to me.

On the other hand, cars and oiled propelled industries and advances seem to me a sin of almost heroic proportion. We are removing from the earth fossils and aother bio matters that have been in circulation for the last 6.9999 billion years, we have no way of knowing how the world will react to this manipulation of natural processes. Carbon based products eventually if left alon become either more life or diamonds, what if diamonds are essential in some undiscovered process? We are ming diamonds for indurstry and luxury purposes, we are effectively preventing the manifestation of more throuugh our coal and oil mining efforst etc.etc..


more, later, work.

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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5433796 - 03/23/06 10:27 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Well I supose the main point im trying to get at is the fact that we have created such a vast and intertwined system that we really cannot map (just think about how many websites are on the internet and how impossible it would be to make a listing of them)

Basically technology functions as a complex organism of its own, to the point where we do not have one person at the head of it controlling it all...thats what is implied by the cog in the machine idea. Moreso that we function within a fully integrated system that is perhaps (im going out on a limb) unaware of itself.

I agree that technology as negative is totally because of misuse. Another angle I'm going to try to include is the possibility that human nature is self-destructive (hence the people in the cube become destructive, although they have functional tools to get out) and that because we created it for our needs, it too will be self-destructive.

Not all these theories I fully believe, but I feel they tie well together in a paper

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5433803 - 03/23/06 10:29 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

peepeepottypants said:
Do you feel that you are so emmersed in technology that you cannot escape it in sense?



No. It wouldn't be hard to run off and live in the woods, but what's the point? I'm here to advance myself as far as possible(financially and historically), so as long as everyone else has technology to fall back on, I will not concede that advantage.

Quote:

peepeepottypants said:
What are some of the negative aspects of technology to you?



Read Me, seriously.

Quote:

peepeepottypants said:
How do you think some of these films (matrix included) translate as metaphores for your reality?



Matrix - You can take the red or blue pill. You can choose to stay blind to what technology and government are doing to ruin humanity, or you can wake up and fight.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5433891 - 03/23/06 10:51 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

[Well I supose the main point im trying to get at is the fact that we have created such a vast and intertwined system that we really cannot map (just think about how many websites are on the internet and how impossible it would be to make a listing of them)]

Its not really that hard, google has made million off it, so have many other search engines. I see what y

[Basically technology functions as a complex organism of its own, to the point where we do not have one person at the head of it controlling it all...thats what is implied by the cog in the machine idea. Moreso that we function within a fully integrated system that is perhaps (im going out on a limb) unaware of itself.]

I think you are strecthing the analogy some. It is most certainly without the ability to recognize itself, it lack cognitve ability of any sort, its a vast network of machines, not a nuerological entity. It may seem alive or like an organism, that is only becasue its a medium which very readily adapts and takes on the characteristics of its users.

Its like that gift you get at spencers, you know, the one where you press your face into the nails and it creates an image like your face, that is a very basic representation of what technology is.

It has certainly become fully intergrated inot our lives sure, it would be hard for modern man to survive without technology of anysort. Even the prehistorics had technology of sorts, ever hear of an atlatl, so a clear definition of what technology is first needed to be established. Then we need to chronicle the pros and cons of each further manifestation of techonlogy and weigh them against eachother to dertermine their ultimate effect on us. I think hominoids have a very realy need for some tehcnological adavances, we are neither strong nor cunning, are only trump cvard in the law of nature is our ability to devise mahines and other artifacts that level the pleying feild in the hunt for foods. eventually we figured out a way to surpasse others in the hunt for food.

Not sure what I am trying to say, sorry.

I agree that technology as negative is totally because of misuse. Another angle I'm going to try to include is the possibility that human nature is self-destructive (hence the people in the cube become destructive, although they have functional tools to get out) and that because we created it for our needs, it too will be self-destructive.

Not all these theories I fully believe, but I feel they tie well together in a paper

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: daimyo]
    #5433933 - 03/23/06 11:00 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

"you can take tyhe red or blue pill", that is funny cause once you take one you can never go back.

check out the lyrics to this song.

cee lo, and his perfect imperfections. Tha album is the so fucky adn cee lo delivers some crazy mathematics. He sings with a very soul full voice.

anywyaz read this. its about technology.


Shocka locka...

[Cee-Lo]
Shit, behold it is me, it is the epitome of extraterrestrial energy
Experiment and enter the internals of the inner me
The art of gone, and heart of stone, and own's worst enemy

Intellect shapeshifta, God's gift a Soul slippa
Hone in on clones and blow them out of my zone
International Fanatical, the radical tactical movements
Sounds are congruent to it

Work

It is what it ain't to these, infected disease
Thought of automatons deceived, by the deceptions indeed
Who mechanically breed at methodical speeds
Distorting your genes, aborting your dreams
As coarse as it seems

Aiyyo, Work

[Cee-Lo]
I could scream, I can't seem to sleep long enough to dream
It's life on a laser beam
But I fiend for the future at my finger tips
One of the minor technicalities of my head trips

You Better Work

The Barea Soul terror, been told since stories of old
Come on let's go and then I'll show how to beat down a rhyme
And wrestle a tempo
Hold on tight, but still let yourself go

Work

This is what I'm talking about
Should I begin to spit it just like the wind
Show my power take flight and quickly ascend
Like a bird beating my wings to the pulse of nature
Scaring spiritual devils while evoking the maker
Is it wrong for me to curse in the name of right
Is it wrong for me to spit life into this mic
That's all I'm asking baby
How come the new millennium brings fright
Something wicked approaches tonight

Work

It's automatic, static battle star galactic
Microhard
It's the upgraded, complicated, premeditated
Microhard
It's the transplanted, peaceful panic, bass mechanic
Microhard
It's the psychotic, mean melodic, nod-narcotic
Microhard
(repeat)

What good is a call on the phone if you can't speak
And you find it hard to breathe
Paralyzed by my essence, mere presence I put forth
Inherently legends record all souls of expressions
Evil as evil does, better than good was
A spirit of music that once was, born out of the pool of your love
Baby I'm an agent with a flow that's so contagious
And all and all true patience, my brotha Lo told me makes for perfection
while you feeling bound by this matrix
That's why when it comes to protecting mine
I'm a brother you can call over zealous
And I lust and thrust out my staff and wet
Till the motherfuckin' rains get jealous

You Gotta Work

It's not coincidental I use my soul for a stencil to outline the rhyme
that connects machine and a mind
Until the end of time the one my kind, the message will now be profoundly




CLICK ABOVE TO VISIT OUR SPONSORS


spoken, rules are meant to be broken, therefore it's my pleasure to mentor
But once learned you must learn you must yearn to discern
The mechanical glitch of artificial intelligence
But the consequence of your ignorance is the reality I now see before me:
"maybe in time we'll see"

Don't Stop, Work

The degree you'll see will 'cause casualty when the codes download
The truth will unfold uphold until the end
'Cause our destiny will be to win, you're still free to sin within

It's automatic, static battle star galactic
Microhard
It's the upgraded, complicated, premeditated
Microhard
It's the transplanted, peaceful panic, bass mechanic
Microhard
It's the psychotic, mean melodic, nod-narcotic
Microhard
(repeat)

[Cee-Lo]
I am the melody, the metaphoric prehistoric
The pre-meaning before it, preparing for war shit
Their god's only a graphic, the sky's computer blue
There is a moral malfunction, what will the machine do to you
They maliciously monopolize the mass
Niggas sleep rap and fuck they surprise you last
when you sell them your soul they supply you cash
But you can die for all they care, with your expendable ass
Because they know a new nigga, a brand new nigga
Will jump right in them tap shoes even if his feet bigger
Ain't shit sweet nigga, it's deeper than the street nigga
You and I just a virus they gonna delete nigga
Some people say go on and join what you can't beat nigga
I won't take the mark so I can't eat nigga
Holla if I'm talking to ya, (AH!)
I'll walk straight through ya
'Cause I want the motherfucker that did this to ya

Work

It's automatic, static battle star galactic
Microhard
It's the upgraded, complicated, premeditated
Microhard
It's the transplanted, peaceful panic, bass mechanic
Microhard
It's the psychotic, mean melodic, nod-narcotic
Microhard
(repeat)

Our comrade Cee-Lo is considered by many as a modern day Neo
And opposing forces known as agents will like him dead for what he know
He is The One, at least that's who Morpheus say he is
He can free the mind of a machine and give God to an atheist
But he's a daydreamer, it's all in his head
Still today's music has become the Matrix
and the real rhythm is in the red pill
So I chose it knowing I can never return once I'm gone
And I hope you got this message
I'll be waiting by the phone

It's automatic, static battle star galactic
Microhard
It's the upgraded, complicated, premeditated
Microhard
It's the transplanted, peaceful panic, bass mechanic
Microhard
It's the psychotic, mean melodic, nod-narcotic
Microhard
(repeat)

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InvisibleBuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!

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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5433993 - 03/23/06 11:10 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Not me.

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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5434011 - 03/23/06 11:14 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Here is what I have so far, just concerning Cube


This film follows seven people as they try to piece together their skills to find a way out of a massive deadly rubix cube. Cube illustrates is a fantastic transition of ideas concerning technology. In one aspect it views technology as becoming an omnipresent organism of its own. It ushers in a new era of a completely new and mediated world. On the other hand, it looks at technology as being so incredibly vast and interconnected that that we cannot step out and look at the bigger picture. We have no maps for these territories if you will.
The first thing one notices about the visual atmosphere is that it is completely technologically incased. The walls are indicative of circuitry and each wall has metal levers to open a hatch to the next room. Every room has a series of numbers. Some if the rooms are booby-trapped and some aren?t. All of these visual aspects are reminiscent of the immense circuitry of our own homes (light fixtures, TV cables, computer wires ect?). They can also be paralleled with our digital world because all the rooms are interconnected and ever changing.
What this film really hints at is that each person has a skill, and therefore is a tool. As a group they must function as an integrated system to escape the Cube alive. In essence, the group looks to escape the world around them, so they can function is a more malleable world, one they feel they have control of. This is a lot like how we use technology, it functions and works as a large integrated system and in doing such it shapes the world around us in order to gain a sense of control.
Another parallel that can be made is that Worth (one of the seven trapped) actually worked on the machine, never knowing who is in control. In reference to this Holloway states ?It's all the same machine, right? The Pentagon, multinational corporations, the police. If you do one little job, you build a widget in Saskatoon, and the next thing you know, it's two miles under the desert, the essential component of a death machine.? This furthers the idea that everything works within an integrated system that makes a world of its own, that is never fully aware of its higher function. To explain it better, the circuitry within a computer that opens and closes its specific port is unaware of the higher function it serves.
If society is heavily intertwined and reliant on technology, we are pieces within a system in which we do not understand its higher function, or as Worth nihilistically puts it ?There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan.?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5434040 - 03/23/06 11:22 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

peepeepottypants said:
Do you feel that you are so emmersed in technology that you cannot escape it in sense?




Yes. None of us can, not and remain human. One of the very first things we humans ever did was to create technology - not "high" technology, simple technology in the form of stone tools. It was this act that elevated us to the status we have now as a species on this planet. It, as with all technology, solved some problems we had at the time but also introduced new problems. So we tried to invent our way out of the new problems. The plow came along. Agriculture. Construction and engineering. All these things are "technology" and, obviously, are essential not only to our current way of life but for our very existence.

Can we escape technology? No. To do so would be to throw ourselves back to the level of the Ape. While technology may be a double-edged sword...I'm certainly not willing to give it up. I think there's about 6.5 billion other people who would agree with me if they actually took a look at the situation.

As a mind exorcise I like to think ahead: what will people be complaining about in 2000 years? I think it will be the same: technology...but it will be the technology of 2000 years from now. They will look back on our measly "high technology" much the same way we look back on bronze tools and hand-made plows.

Quote:

What are some of the negative aspects of technology to you?




Actually I find it hard to think of actual "negative" aspects of technology. Really the only one I can think of is that all technology creates a problem (of some kind) for human kind. Of course technology is also the solution to the problem it presents...so it all kind of balances itself out in the end.

Quote:

How do you think some of these films (matrix included) translate as metaphores for your reality?




I think they show the increasing dependence that we humans have on technology, for our survival. Again, this is nothing new - we've been dependent on technology as long as we've been human. The only real difference today is that we can make movies about it :wink:

The Matrix is a special case, because it involves the (eventual) possibility that we will give our technology a "life" of its own. No longer is technology simply a double-edged tool...it has a will and purpose of its own that is entirely separate from humans. Of course in the movie most humans are trying the same old tricks: invent our way out of the problems we've created. It's interesting how they break from the usual answer (which is to create more tech) and settle on the powers of a human to solve the problem. Then again...the "human" used has powers beyond any other human and, quite likely, is himself a product of the technology.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: trendal]
    #5434077 - 03/23/06 11:30 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

"The only real difference today is that we can make movies about it "

haha, so true.

I agree with what you're saying, Ive hit this point where Im finding that the nature of technology, is the nature of humans and vice versa. Right down to our biology. Unfortunatly Ive taken this project up in the image of "dystopia" because we had to choose one or the other, and Im finding its not a dystopia...it just is. Its essence is our essence. everything working on individual basis to serve higher unknown function...although on the surface we may believe the higher function is ourselves...but I really feel thats a side affect of be aware of oneself.


Nice quote in your sig by the way (william Gibson) have you seen no maps for these territories?, its his documentary on the complex nature of technology and the specific topic im attempting to address intelligently (no luck on the intelligent part though, ha ha)

Edited by peepeepottypants (03/23/06 11:31 AM)

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5434092 - 03/23/06 11:32 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah I've watched that docu many times now, it's where I got that quote from :wink:

He's got another good quote about drugs in there that I really like:

"All any drug amounts to is tweaking the incoming data...and you have to be really incredibly self-centered, or pathetic, to be satisfied with simply tweaking the incoming data. Enough of the right drug and ANYTHING is groovy. Enough of the right drug and it's OK to be having open-heart surgery...and, you know, who want's that?"
--William Gibson


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: trendal]
    #5434122 - 03/23/06 11:38 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)
Log in to view attachment

By the by, if you don't have a copy of No Maps For These Territories (or if you haven't seen it, anyone else!) there's a two-part torrent file available over at MVGroup:

http://www.mvgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6394&hl=william+gibson

If you aren't a member there, you should be! If you don't want to be a member there...well here's the torrents anyway :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: trendal]
    #5434125 - 03/23/06 11:39 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)
Log in to view attachment

Part 2


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblepeepeepottypants
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: trendal]
    #5434176 - 03/23/06 11:59 AM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Alright, now here comes the irony...
I suck at computers.
How can get these to download?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Who wants to talk technological dystopian theory with me?! [Re: peepeepottypants]
    #5434188 - 03/23/06 12:05 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

You need a bittorrent program. Try the one I use, called BitTornado:

http://www.bittornado.com/

Download and install that program, then open up one of the .torrent files that I posted above. It will ask you where to save the file to and should start downloading right away.

It can be slow going at first, but it should pick up speed fairly quickly.

Let me know if that helps!


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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