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netherstrain
Druidik Scholar
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 72
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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fine vermiculite ?
#5400908 - 03/14/06 08:22 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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hello, where im at all i can find is fine grade vermiculite, you know the kind that is really small, will this still be sufficiant while using chunkier brf...? i have had success in the past with chunky brf and chunky verm. but i need some input from the community.. thank you
-------------------- All statements i make is purely bullshit.
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mushboy
modboy
Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,599
Loc: where?
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I also can only find the fine kind. its ok. its a wee bit slower but you can really speed things up buy making 50/50ish coco/verm mix and then add your brf. the coco really fluffs things up! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5134824/an/0/page/0
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Chrissss
poke smoter
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 227
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: mushboy]
#5400932 - 03/14/06 08:28 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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Same here all i use is the fine. Thats a good idea mushboy. Ill have to try with the coco next time.
-------------------- http://www.laserspectacular.com/index.htm This is a laser show with pink floyd music. If it comes near you GO! it is amazing
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HongKongPhooey
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 172
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: Chrissss]
#5401056 - 03/14/06 09:07 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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it seems like fine would hold more water but is at the same time denser... never tried both types, anyone know if yields are different
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water. but your correct it itsn't as airy so adding something else to 'fluff up' your substrate is a good plan.
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: skeletor]
#5401426 - 03/14/06 10:33 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
skeletor said: i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water. but your correct it itsn't as airy so adding something else to 'fluff up' your substrate is a good plan.
>> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5097253#Post5097253
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netherstrain
Druidik Scholar
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 72
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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mushboy, what kind of coco do i add?
-------------------- All statements i make is purely bullshit.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Coco Coir. http://www.greeneem.com/cococoirpeat.htm
Hydroponics shops, garden centers & pet store have it
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 9 days, 16 hours
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: skeletor]
#5402110 - 03/15/06 03:52 AM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
skeletor said: i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water.
Vermiculite water holding ability TEST
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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All I've ever used is fine verm due to availability in my area. I've never had any problems with it. Although I've never compared it to chunky verm as far as speed of colonization, the fine verm didn't take long to colonize at all, especially when inoculated with an LC. If you're doing PF jars, don't pack the substrate down at all. Spoon your BRF/verm mix into the jars very loosely, like you should do regardless of coarseness.
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
#5402183 - 03/15/06 05:53 AM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Fine verm works great as the top protection layer in the PFTek but thats really only the best place for it. It will work in substrates as well but I really prefer larger chunks as IME they actually hold more water because they are less dense meaning less cellulose matter more water and it just makes for a healthier culture IMHO. One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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TrippingDuality
cult classic
Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 805
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
#5402893 - 03/15/06 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.
eeek! i don't like reading this! they didn't have chunky this time. does the addition of coir to fine verm at about a 70/30 ratio help prevent suffocating?
-------------------- turn off your mind relax and float downstream
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Sinthetic
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 812
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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I've read a couple reports of that working better than just vermiculite.
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
#5402956 - 03/15/06 11:14 AM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Fine verm works great as the top protection layer in the PFTek but thats really only the best place for it. It will work in substrates as well but I really prefer larger chunks as IME they actually hold more water because they are less dense meaning less cellulose matter more water and it just makes for a healthier culture IMHO. One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.
Chunky verm may be better, technically. But like I stated, I've never had a problem using the fine stuff and that INCLUDES as a casing layer. I not telling people to get fine verm over chunky verm, just that it will suffice.
All of these were cased with ONLY fine grade verm. The 2nd pic was a 2nd flush, the third pic was a 3rd flush. Fruits were small due to shallow substrate depth. Results can vary with verm though, due to inconsistent pH levels.
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
#5403091 - 03/15/06 11:53 AM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Suffocation of a substrate isn't an immediate problem, over time though it can be a breeding ground for anerobic bacteria. In your situation the first flush looks very nice although not alot of weight there it is a very nice pinset. The FC looks to be a little high in CO2 possibly. Like you said if thats all you can get then get it.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
#5403171 - 03/15/06 12:13 PM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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The one thing I've learned about this hobby is to never say NEVER!
I can't count how many times in this hobby I didn't try something because I would hear it wouldn't work. After seeing RR's pics with mushrooms growing off of a bra, I won't rule anything out!
That grow was my first casing attempt. I don't know about the CO2, but I do know that nutes were lacking, due to the substrate only being a couple of PF cakes. The first pic is what happens when you don't plan your vacation with your grow. Mess of spores!
I'm really hooked on double tubs now though:
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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shriek
*********
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
#5403186 - 03/15/06 12:16 PM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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i got a 10 pound bag of fine grade verm by accident, it didnt work well as substrate but i have, like allready mentioned here, used it as top layer on my pf jars when incubated. i have also rolled my cakes in it without any problems I have noticed.
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discountpass
Stranger
Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 160
Loc: SE Florida
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
#5403207 - 03/15/06 12:22 PM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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This what FooManShroom is talking bout! and i can vouch to say it works great, cant say if it is better then chunky verm, but i have had no success with the chunky one.
11.23 @ homedepot(not all homedepots have em so try a few, and i can also get a bag of perlite,same price)
-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- Enjoy life, alas! Enjoy life! As death is only the begining.
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: shriek]
#5403219 - 03/15/06 12:26 PM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
shriek said: i got a 10 pound bag of fine grade verm by accident, it didnt work well as substrate
I agree. It would SUCK as a substrate, it has ZERO nutes by itself
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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shriek
*********
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
#5403266 - 03/15/06 12:41 PM (18 years, 8 days ago) |
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hehe
together with brf of course
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