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InvisibleAlex213
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Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq"
    #5363556 - 03/04/06 01:07 AM (18 years, 20 days ago)

What a lunatic...

Blair: 'God will be my judge on Iraq'
By Andy McSmith
Published: 04 March 2006

Tony Blair has proclaimed that God will judge whether he was right to send British troops to Iraq, echoing statements from his ally George Bush.

Explaining how he managed to live with the decision to go to war in Iraq, Mr Blair replied: "If you have faith about these things then you realise that judgement is made by other people. If you believe in God,it's made by God as well." His remarks, made in an interview to be shown on ITV's Parkinson show tonight, invite comparison with President Bush, a born-again Christian, who has made a virtue of bringing religion into politics. But they also carry the risk of inflaming opinion in the Arab world, where the term "crusader" is commonly used to condemn Christian leaders who meddle in the Middle East.

Roger Bacon, who has been trying unsuccessfully to meet Tony Blair since his son, Major Matthew Bacon, 34, was killed in Iraq, said last night: "This would explain why he won't see the parents. How can he speak to us when God told him to send the troops out to Iraq so our sons could be killed?"

And Rose Gentle, whose son Gordon was killed in Basra in 2004, said she was "quite disgusted" at the comments made by the Prime Minister. The Military Families Against the War campaigner said: "How can he say he is a Christian? A Christian would never put people out there to be killed.

"A good Christian wouldn't be for this war. I'm actually quite disgusted by the comments. It's a joke."

Mr Blair refused to say whether he had prayed for guidance on whether to send British troops into Iraq - which has cost the lives of 103 British troops, 2,300 US soldiers, and up to 30,000 Iraqis, with many thousands maimed or injured, in a conflict which has claimed more lives since the fall of Baghdad than the war itself.

There have been persistent reports that Mr Blair joined the President in prayer for God's guidance at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, in 2002, at the summit at which many people believe a secret decision was reached to invade Iraq.

The claim was made in a book by the Christian author Stephen Mansfield, who said he had heard it from White House officials. It was later backed up by a writer on Time magazine, David Aikman.

Mr Bush once told Palestinian leaders: "God would tell me, 'George, go end the tyranny in Iraq' and I did."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article349125.ece

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5363579 - 03/04/06 01:16 AM (18 years, 20 days ago)

Mr Keys' son, Lance Corporal Tom Keys, was one of six Red Caps killed by an Iraqi mob in Majar Al-Kabir in June 2003.

"War should be the final option that a prime minister takes when all avenues have failed. In my view those other avenues hadn't failed," said Mr Keys, the founder of campaign group Military Families Against The War.

"God doesn't come into this at all. We want to believe that our... loved ones... died for a justified cause, not some delusional religious cause."

He accused Mr Blair of "jumping on the same bandwagon" as US President George W Bush.

"Are we really seeing over 100 coffins coming back because God told him to go to war?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4773124.stm

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5363786 - 03/04/06 06:10 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Praise Jesus!








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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5363793 - 03/04/06 06:23 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

[sarcasm] A religious politician? MY GOD! LET'S LYNCH HIM! [/sarcasm]

Don't be a prejudice-mongering alarmist.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Konnrade]
    #5363801 - 03/04/06 06:39 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

[sarcasm] A religious politician? MY GOD! LET'S LYNCH HIM! [/sarcasm]

Don't be a prejudice-mongering alarmist.




:boxerface:

I've no problem with this deranged fuckwit believing whatever delusions he likes. It's when he uses his delusions to justify killing people I get a little concerned.

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Konnrade]
    #5363802 - 03/04/06 06:39 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Woa woa woa I'm pretty sure Bush isn't to religious, I mean based on what he's done in the white house, and based on the fact that he doesn't go to church. Why attack the people making this statement instead of making some argument for the claim?


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5363829 - 03/04/06 07:24 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Was it known that blair had those beleifs prior to him gaining power?

If it was, then there should be no complaining about how the man has applied his beleifs to his policy.

"He's christian, but that shouldn't be an issue. I think he'll do fine."
(later on)

"Whoah now! He can't make decision based upon the core beleifs that are most important to him!"

I don't see why people cannot comprehend the fact that to a religious person, God is a major influence on their decisions. They need to stop acting so damn surprised and outraged when politicians' religion plays a major role in their decisions. Not only is it unreasonable, it's just not very bright.

People are entirely too hard on politicians' religion. The religion often isn't the issue, the fact of the matter is that they're quite frequently looking for excuses to further criticize politicians, and a religious issue like this is a convenient excuse to whine and bitch.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Konnrade]
    #5364008 - 03/04/06 09:27 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Was it known that blair had those beleifs prior to him gaining power?


What beliefs? Does believing in God mean you have to invade Iraq?

If it was, then there should be no complaining about how the man has applied his beleifs to his policy.


He never mentioned God when he was thinking of an excuse for the war. He said it was to save us from WMD.

People are entirely too hard on politicians' religion.

As I've said, I don't care if he strips naked and worships the devil behind closed doors. The only thing I'm interested in is when he starts using his delusion to justify war.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5364926 - 03/04/06 03:20 PM (18 years, 19 days ago)

If he's lying about it, it's a different matter. But, if he isn't, then my point is quite valid.

Perhaps he didn't mention the influence from god prior to now because he knew how all the idiots of the world would go apeshit on him about it?

Just a thought. You know it's damn true. Politician in a western world shows strong religious conviction, and suddenly many people of the public start acting like he's a retard and using it as an excuse to fabricate criticisms about both the politician and their religion.  That way they get to exert two different prejudices with one fell blow of imbecility.

Ask yourself, why make it a point to even include his religion in this, if not merely because it gives an excuse for a fresh new set of bitching about the war? Of course a religious man is going to try and do things the way he thinks god wants them done. That's common sense, any idiot is capable of understanding that. Why emphasize it? Answer: because it makes it seem fresh and new when people repeat the same whining that they've done so many times before. The religious issue is thrown in to coerce people into listening to them while they bitch about the war in the same useless, defeatist way they did since before it even began.

I don't like this war, I don't think it's a good idea... but I have the sense not to run around complaining and doing things that are damaging to the morale of the nation. And I don't start calling politicians delusional just because they turned to their faith when they had to make a tough decision.

When leaders feel very strongly that they need to make the best decision possible for the sake of their people, they turn to their faith out of a desire to make that best possible decision. I assure you, if he was turning to God for guidance, he sincerely wanted the best for those under his command. And of course all  they did is come up with the most ungrateful response possible. Because it's always about how wrong the politician is. He's evil, he's an idiot, he sucks, we hate him, wahhhh wahhh wahhh :emocry:

Give the man some credit. Most of us would, if faced with as much responsibility he has, fuck things up much worse. I doubt you or I could do his job. Have some decency.

Edited by Konnrade (03/04/06 03:36 PM)

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Konnrade]
    #5366377 - 03/05/06 01:49 AM (18 years, 19 days ago)

Perhaps he didn't mention the influence from god prior to now because he knew how all the idiots of the world would go apeshit on him about it?


And why shouldn't they? He claimed the invasion of Iraq was to do with WMD. He never mentioned God.

but I have the sense not to run around complaining and doing things that are damaging to the morale of the nation.

So you just go along with some lunatic who claims to be in contact with God? What if he thinks God is telling him to invade somewhere else? Do you just go along with it? Or do you try and bring the delusional bastard to his senses?

I assure you, if he was turning to God for guidance, he sincerely wanted the best for those under his command

War is the last resort. Any decent man understands this. Invading Iraq wasn't the last resort. There were no WMD. He has sent those under his command to their deaths on a falsehood.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5366557 - 03/05/06 06:12 AM (18 years, 18 days ago)

I have a hard time following how you reply to my points by talking about other things.

I say that he might have avoided mentioning god before now, because the plebes would criticise him for it. You try and change the subject to WMD's, as though you didn't even read what I said. Then you say he never mentioned god. Of course he didn't, and the reason why is what I am talking about, do you comprehend this?

"So you just go along with some lunatic who claims to be in contact with God? What if he thinks God is telling him to invade somewhere else? Do you just go along with it? Or do you try and bring the delusional bastard to his senses?"

You're being extremely hyperbolic. What I am saying is that sitting on your ass and complaining isn't accomplishing anything. At best, all it does is hurt people's morale. If you don't like what is going on, there are better ways of doing something about it than sitting around and saying how much everything sucks. We all know that it sucks, we don't need people to keep repeating the same tired rhetoric of why it sucks. We need people that actually have motivation to do something constructive, instead of telling themselves that they're doing something about it when all they're doing is being a whiny annoyance.

Quote:

Konnrade said:
Give the man some credit. Most of us would, if faced with as much responsibility he has, fuck things up much worse. I doubt you or I could do his job. Have some decency.




Did you avoid replying to that part on purpose? It's a good point, you know. You couldn't do his job, yet when he messes up you assume he's a lunatic and use it as an excuse to say how inferior he is.

You don't like to think about it, but he's still a human and deserves your respect as much as anyone else does. Especially since you don't actually know what the man is thinking. It's awfully presumptuous to assume that despite having very limited information about him, you're still qualified to claim that you know what he's thinking and that he's a lunatic.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Konnrade]
    #5367031 - 03/05/06 10:58 AM (18 years, 18 days ago)

I have a hard time following how you reply to my points by talking about other things.


I'm struggling to see where you're going too Konnrade.

Then you say he never mentioned god. Of course he didn't, and the reason why is what I am talking about, do you comprehend this?


No.

Are you saying that WMD was a cover story and that his real reason for invading was God? But he didn't say that because the "plebs" wouldn't approve?

Did you avoid replying to that part on purpose?

I thought I'd replied to it when I said decent men don't send people to their deaths on the basis of falsehoods.

It's awfully presumptuous to assume that despite having very limited information about him

"Limited" in what sense? I'm going on what he's said himself.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Blair: "God will be my judge on Iraq" [Re: Alex213]
    #5367133 - 03/05/06 11:37 AM (18 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Are you saying that WMD was a cover story and that his real reason for invading was God? But he didn't say that because the "plebs" wouldn't approve?





Do you honestly think that there is only one reason for his decisions? There's probably a thick melange of reasons which prompted him to go to war. WMD's were probably one of them... both the american and british governments had a lot of people who were misinformed and thought that iraq had WMD's. His faith played a role in it also, no doubt. He probably also was thinking about eliminating an aggressive and dangerous world leader. And god knows how many other reasons he was acting upon. To focus on just one as though it was the sole reason is to be unfair.

What I'm saying is that god may have been one of the reasons why he chose the way he did, but as a politician he had every reason to be afraid of how brutally the public would respond to him showing his religion. So he could very well have chosen to avoid mentioning it.

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I thought I'd replied to it when I said decent men don't send people to their deaths on the basis of falsehoods.





That has nothing to do with the fact that you and I couldn't do his job any better, and that it's a bit pompous to be so critical of someone when they make very difficult decisions, if they are in a position that you yourself would have difficulty being in.

Quote:

Alex213 said:
"Limited" in what sense? I'm going on what he's said himself.




It's limited in just that. The only thing you have to go on is what he's said himself. That's never the whole story. Politicians don't often give the whole story, the public is mostly either too impatient or too stupid to listen to the whole story. They prefer to listen to a very abbreviated version, and that is what is usually given to them. You and I, and the rest of the public, have no idea whatsoever about what he's actually thinking. Calling him insane or delusional is very presumptuous, and unfair.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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