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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
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Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains
#5166877 - 01/11/06 10:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have seen a few mentions of endospores in manure in some posts, I figure it is undigested grains the horse ate. I think agar was warning against sterilization of manure because endospores can hatch and take hold. I thought this inferred that if you pasteurised, then the living beneficial bacteria would overcome the newly germinated endospores. If this is the case then can you simply soak WBS or some other grain and then add it to manure and pasteruise. Then you can add a lot of LC, the hatching grain endospores should be overcome by the manure bacteria. There is probably a ratio where there is too much. Bluehelix had good success with sterilized mixtures of grain and manure using LCs. Manure does not take well to an LC on its own and the grain helps a lot. I also wonder if grains low in endospores would work well, could rice flour be pasteruised with manure, the LC may take well to that mixture too.
Edited by blackout (01/11/06 10:58 AM)
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onetime
onetime
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+gr [Re: blackout]
#5167175 - 01/11/06 12:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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there is no need to add un cloinized grain to horse shit. if you pastureize your shit and then once it is cooled add your 100% colenized grain to it then the myc should over come any bad endospores that are there. injecting lc straight to shit is skipping the step of growing the myc. any lc that had enough myc in it to get colenized quickly would have too much liquid not enouhg myc.
-------------------- See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist
Registered: 08/08/05
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+gr [Re: onetime]
#5167341 - 01/11/06 12:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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basicly when you pasturize you are killing all the bad spores/bacteria and keeping the good bacteria to fight off other invaders
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+gr [Re: onetime]
#5170596 - 01/12/06 02:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
onetime said:if you pastureize your shit and then once it is cooled add your 100% colenized grain to it then the myc should over come any bad endospores that are there. injecting lc straight to shit is skipping the step of growing the myc.
The colonized grain you are adding has to be sterilized. Bluehelix sterilized grain premixed with manure and added LC and had good results. I am not skipping the step of growing the myc, I am skipping the sterilization step.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+gr [Re: blackout]
#5170966 - 01/12/06 05:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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The bacteria in the manure would not 'take over' the bacteria from the germinating endospores in the grains, but would most likely 'join up' with it and ruin the project. In fact, the bacteria in the manure would contaminate the grains, endospores or not. Don't mix uncolonized grains and manure.
I would see no benefit to mixing grains and manure and sterilizing both togheter. Grains are much more nutritious than manure, so the manure would be diluting your grain. Best to let the grains colonize fully, then spawn them to five to ten times the amount of pasteurized manure. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+gr [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5171146 - 01/12/06 08:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: The bacteria in the manure would not 'take over' the bacteria from the germinating endospores in the grains, but would most likely 'join up' with it and ruin the project.
So what about undigested grains passing through the horse?(if that does happen, I presume so seeing the sweetcorn in my own shit!) do you think there are endospores in manure?
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I would see no benefit to mixing grains and manure and sterilizing both togheter.
Time to colonise
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:Grains are much more nutritious than manure, so the manure would be diluting your grain.
Cheap or free and allegedly more potent fruits.
Edited by blackout (01/12/06 08:13 AM)
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,285
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: blackout]
#5171253 - 01/12/06 09:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, as we speak, I have a bag of straw, worm castings, and grain FLOURS, colonizing. I do NOT have high hopes, but I wanted to see, my curiosity must be satisfied
I mixed the flours in with worm castings throughly, and pasteurized it, hoping the castings beneficial microbes would inhabit the flour. This mix was then added to pasteurized straw and mixed well. This will be day 3, no funky smells yet. I'll let you know how it goes. I feel like my chances would have been better if I had sterilized the grain, then added it to the castings and pasteurized. I might try that next when/if this fails.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: Rahz]
#5175324 - 01/13/06 02:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good luck with it, how far colonised is it? what grain flours? Was it done with LC? if so how much LC.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,285
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: blackout]
#5183362 - 01/15/06 12:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I'm posting to report failure. The substrate looks about 50% colonized, but yesterday I noticed a slight smell, and today the smell is obvious. Here's the ingredients I used:
1 quart colonized WBS 8.75 quarts straw sub mix: 2 cups worm castings 1/2 cup ground quinoa 1/2 cup ground Bob's 8 grain cereal mix 1/2 cup soy flour 1/4 cup brown rice flour 1/4 cup rye flour 1/4 cup calcium carbonate 2 cups water
I added the flours to the castings, hopeing they would pick up beneficial bacteria from the pasturization. It's just too rich though.
I've got 24 quarts of WBS almost colonized, so I guess I'll be spawning directly to straw/castings, perhaps poo if I can find some locally.
For my next grow (down the road a bit) I'm going to add all those nutes to the jars, and spawn about 50/50. Basically I'm going to be adding whole quinoa, Bob's mix, and perhaps rice to the WBS. I've also got some crushed cob... I'm considering hydrating it well, and rolling it in dry rye/soy flour, and adding that to the WBS too.
So there's part of your answer, I don't think whole grains would fare any better than flours. As for the LC idea, this crushed cob I've got might be useful. Hydrate the cob, drain well, add LC, mix well, drain, let colonize, use as spawn. I understand cob is fairly contam resistant, so it would be worth an experiment.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
Edited by Rahz (01/15/06 12:48 PM)
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: Rahz]
#5186030 - 01/16/06 02:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Were the worm castings commercial? I have seen chicken manure pellets which were dried, I presume the heat would have killed all bacteria, I have never heard much about beneficial microbes in worm castings. It was about 50/50 castings to flours/grains which probably is too rich like you said.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,285
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: blackout]
#5186403 - 01/16/06 09:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>Were the worm castings commercial?
They came from a 15lb bag, looks like it's straight from the compost pile. From what I understand, the mucus the worm excrete acts as an antiseptic, making it ideal for mixing with straw. I'm assuming the benificial microbes stay alive during worm composting, though I could be wrong. At any rate, I'm hesitant to try with smaller ammounts of grain, as the contam chance is still there, and the benifits would be reduced.
>>>>It was about 50/50 castings to flours/grains which probably is too rich like you said.
Yep, the idea hit me after my WBS was almost colonized. Next time I'll add the quinoa and other whole grains to the WBS and PC it all, then just go heavy on the spawn to get the extra nutes in there. This WBS colonizes so well (compared to cakes), there's really no reason to skimp on spawn.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,285
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: Rahz]
#5186815 - 01/16/06 12:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, the grain flour mixture is still colonizing. I just looked and the surface is about 70% colonized... at least it's still growing. The smell isn't any worse than yesterday. The only visible colors are substrate and mycelium. I'm really not sure what to think about it. I can't say it reminds me of smelly feet, more like a yeast roll. If it keeps colonizing, what are the chances of it working for an indoor grow???
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Does horse manure contain endospores? Do the bacteria overcome them?can you pasteruise manure+grains [Re: Rahz]
#5246167 - 01/31/06 10:21 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any more word on this Rahz?
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