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 Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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 Spiritual Settings 
#5082649 - 12/19/05 04:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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How important are the external details of your life to your spiritual growth?
Do we need to run away from the trappings of modern life, the technology, the traffic, the paperwork, the drippy faucet in the kitchen, in order to be enlightened?
Monks have done it for ages...set themselves away from the crowd, kept their life simple and highly scheduled, and rejected the "advances" which the rest have embraced.
I say that we can do it anywhere, if we can do it at all. Waiting for the perfect setting is an excuse to avoid the nitty-gritty work of real spiritual growth. If you run away from your "non-spiritual" life, to some idyllic circumstance you imagine will free you, I believe you'll find the same impatient self waiting there for you.
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 alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
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 Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5082672 - 12/19/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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anywhere is fine. to me, a busy urban life is almost as important to my spiritual growth as isolation. nevertheless, getting away from it all is good now and then. my parents live in a very remote rural area, and when i go to see them i try to make the most of that atmosphere. i go out into the countryside to meditate and practice kata, and its very good for thinking things through without distraction.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5082680 - 12/19/05 04:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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good post. But dont you think that many of the modern technological advances are for idle sensory input? created for the sole purpose of distraction and averting boredom?
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Averting boredom? Maybe. I think avoiding consciousness is more accurate.
Reality TV?? WTF? How about "reality"?
The important ingredient in utilizing technology is choice. I was checking out a stack (10-15) of books from the library, and the librarian commented that she wished she had time to read as much as I do. When I told her I didn't watch TV at all, she looked at me as though I had two heads.
Just because the distration is available doesn't mean we MUST use it whenever life becomes uncomfortable. And because the distraction is available, we need to become skillful acting in alignment with our values.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5082694 - 12/19/05 04:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dont think it is neccessary to lead an isolated monk life to become enlightened, but i think it sure would make it easier.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Monkey mind doesn't rely on the TV for transmission. 
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justAkid
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5082738 - 12/19/05 04:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I say that we can do it anywhere, if we can do it at all. Waiting for the perfect setting is an excuse to avoid the nitty-gritty work of real spiritual growth. If you run away from your "non-spiritual" life, to some idyllic circumstance you imagine will free you, I believe you'll find the same impatient self waiting there for you.
Awareness is the prerequisite for spiritual growth. I know I cannot be aware of the greater things in life when my focus is directed toward cooking when working. It's hard for me to keep focus when I'm run down from the bussle.
Saying that, I believe that complete isolation is never ideal. Being amongst people in good will is for us. However, awareness is something to be developed away from people. My greatest moments have been in quiet and seperation.
But if it works for you, that's great. 
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Trust thyself.
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Deviate
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: justAkid]
#5082961 - 12/19/05 05:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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i believe it has to do with your level of spiritual growth. there's a saying "if you can't meditate in a boiler room you can't meditate" and i agree. however, that doesn't mean you should start learning to meditate in a boiler room. if you first start practising in a quiet and peaceful place you can then maintain full awareness wherever you go. i think that it is more difficult if you start off in a place that is highly intrusive and distracting.
Edited by Deviate (12/19/05 05:50 PM)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Deviate]
#5082987 - 12/19/05 05:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem that I have with the belief that we "can't" work on our spiritual growth while amidst the details of our every day life is that it is a great excuse to put it off.
How much of the distraction and noise are truly out of our control, and how much of it are we choosing in order to delay confronting ourselves? Perhaps the traffic is not of our choosing, but renting a house along a highway is. The neighbor's loud stereo is not under our power, but the TV/Nintendo/X-box/computer is.
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Swami
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5083067 - 12/19/05 06:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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*Swami disconnects from the Internet*
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Swami]
#5083076 - 12/19/05 06:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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 Don't get TOO spiritual!!
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Deviate
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5083298 - 12/19/05 07:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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actually i think swami has the right idea. for me the internet is a huge distraction, not only from spiritual growth but from school work and many other responsibilities. once i get online it's so easy to waste an entire evening just browing around, posting, checking email, etc..
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Deviate]
#5083392 - 12/19/05 07:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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you forgot porn....
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5083467 - 12/19/05 07:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice! I've always preached that you can meditate thruogh anything in life.
If drinking a glass of water, drink it in 30 seconds, not 3, and concentrate on every single drop absorbed in your body. Those 27 seconds spent will grant you piece of mind. If reading a book, do not count the pages left - you're just ruining the plot by knowing how much is left. If you're watching a VHS, do you periodically take out the tape to see how much you've seen and how much is left? No, because you're not rushing anywhere, and if you're staying in the same moment, be in that moment 100%. Having your foot in both worlds progresses you in neither.
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Fospher
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5083478 - 12/19/05 07:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Averting boredom? Maybe. I think avoiding consciousness is more accurate.
Reality TV?? WTF? How about "reality"?
The important ingredient in utilizing technology is choice. I was checking out a stack (10-15) of books from the library, and the librarian commented that she wished she had time to read as much as I do. When I told her I didn't watch TV at all, she looked at me as though I had two heads.
That's one fucked up librarian. Shouldve told her that your third eye hastes your reading speed.
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crunchytoast
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Veritas]
#5083561 - 12/19/05 08:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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How important are the external details of your life to your spiritual growth?
the details of my life are my spiritual path. my environment will thus equal spiritual growth, to the degree that i'm skilful, fortunate, and taking responsibility for myself.
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
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Deviate said:
Quote:
can you explain better crunchytoast? how will your environment equal spiritual growth seeing as how your environment changes? are you saying you will be at a different level of spiritual growth at the grovery store vs at the bank vs in your car?
hi deviate
my opinion is growth is a certain kind of change
for me i have a certain few goals in my life right now
as for grocery vs bank, etc, i suppose the degree to which i meet my deep-seated psychological goals (which hopefully are close enough to the goals i claim to myself) are met by any of these things, is the degree to which one of these things will contribute to my spiritual growth. for me, these things don't really contribute anything new, but sustain practices i've developed on the way (such as shopping for myself).
when i achieve the deep-seated goals, i will have new goals, and i will have grown.
like, in chess, there's ratings of skill. a person with a 1200 rank might have as their goal to become rated 2000. then when they are at 2000, they might seek 2200. in the meantime, they've grown as a chess player. yet a person who's 1200 who increases their score will feel similarly happy when they improve, as a person who's 2000 will feel happy for improving.
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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I wasn't able to transcend my ego and achieve enlightenment until I got an iPod.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Deviate
newbie
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ok i understand what you mean now. i was confused because i took veritas's post to mean evironment as in the things you don't have as much control over, such as the sound of a saw or hammer annoying you on a summer's day.
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crunchytoast
oppositional
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Re: Spiritual Settings [Re: Sclorch]
#5083865 - 12/19/05 09:38 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wasn't able to transcend my ego and achieve enlightenment until I got an iPod.
IMO transcending one's ego would be the opposite of spiritual growth, since it would be denying an important part of oneself.
for example, i find it ironic how the notion that materialism is egotistically-driven, when presented as a criticism, is founded in it's own elitist attitude. everyone has "ego needs", but satisfy those needs in different ways.
if buying an ipod will provide someone with some joy, i think they should go for it.
why transcendentalize enlightenment?
surely out of some ego need...
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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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