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SirTripAlot
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More Proof Against the Race Card
#5081021 - 12/19/05 07:04 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Were is all the media coverage on admitting how biased they were??
THE NATION Katrina Killed Across Class Lines The well-to-do died along with the poor, an analysis of data shows. The findings counter common beliefs that disadvantaged blacks bore the brunt.
By Nicholas Riccardi, Doug Smith and David Zucchino, Times Staff Writers
The bodies of New Orleans residents killed by Hurricane Katrina were almost as likely to be recovered from middle-class neighborhoods as from the city's poorer districts, such as the Lower 9th Ward, according to a Times analysis of data released by the state of Louisiana.
The analysis contradicts what swiftly became conventional wisdom in the days after the storm hit ? that it was the city's poorest African American residents who bore the brunt of the hurricane. Slightly more than half of the bodies were found in the city's poorer neighborhoods, with the remainder scattered throughout middle-class and even some richer districts.
ADVERTISEMENT "The fascinating thing is that it's so spread out," said Joachim Singelmann, director of the Louisiana Population Data Center at Louisiana State University. "It's not just the Lower 9th Ward or New Orleans East, which everybody has heard about. It's across the board, including some well-to-do neighborhoods."
Because New Orleans was one of the nation's poorest cities, where more than one in four residents lives below the poverty level, many of the victims were still found in neighborhoods that were impoverished by national standards. But by the standards of New Orleans, those neighborhoods were economically stable, and deaths citywide were distributed with only a slight bias for economic status.
Of the 828 bodies found in New Orleans after the storm, 300 were either recovered from medical facilities or shelters that offer no data on the victim's socioeconomic status, or from locations that the state cannot fully identify. Of the 528 bodies recovered from identifiable addresses in city neighborhoods, 230 came from areas that had household incomes above the citywide median of $27,133. The poorer areas accounted for 298 bodies.
The state official in charge of identifying Katrina's victims, Dr. Louis Cataldie, said he was not surprised by the findings. "We went into $1-million and $2-million homes trying to retrieve people," he said.
The information used in The Times analysis was incomplete, due to difficulties in gathering data in the days after Katrina struck and to bureaucratic problems that followed.
The private company that was contracted to collect bodies was supposed to mark the GPS coordinates of each recovery, but state officials said they soon determined that data was "worthless." They had to reconstruct the locations where bodies were found but in some cases could provide information no more specific than "Canal Street." Although it is the most comprehensive data they have released on storm fatalities, state officials acknowledge that the information is still riddled with errors and probably will be corrected constantly in coming months.
The state data also include locations such as the interchange of I-10 and I-610 where rescuers in motorboats were directed to deposit bodies they found floating in the floodwaters. There is no way to determine where some of those 19 bodies came from, and all have been excluded from The Times analysis.
"The data you have leaves a lot to be desired," Cataldie said in an interview Friday. "I don't know if it'll ever be 100%."
Of the 1,095 people killed by Katrina in Louisiana, the state has formally identified and released demographic data on 535. Many other victims are tentatively identified, though 93 remain unidentifiable. A couple of bodies are recovered every week, and officials say other victims may have been swept into the Gulf of Mexico, never to be found.
Medical and dental records were destroyed by the storm, and many corpses are so severely decomposed that traditional identification methods such as fingerprints are useless.
Even with the majority of the bodies identified, the state is unable to determine when most died, or how. Many death certificates bear the date of Katrina's landfall ? Aug. 29 ? even though the victim could have died days later. Given the severity of damage suffered by bodies in the floodwaters, cause of death is also extremely difficult to determine and will never be known for many victims, Cataldie said.
New Orleans was the site of most of Katrina's fatalities; the state reported that 76% of storm deaths statewide occurred in the city. Of the 380 bodies from New Orleans that have been formally identified, a moderately disproportionate number are white. New Orleans' population was 28% white, yet 33% of the identified victims in the city are white and 67% black.
"The affected population is more multiracial, multiethnic and multicultural than one might discern from national media reports," said Richard Campanella, a Tulane University geographer who has studied which parts of the city were hit the worst by flooding. His research showed that predominantly white districts in the city were almost as likely to flood as predominantly black ones.
Campanella said he was not surprised at the even distribution of bodies between the city's poorer and more affluent neighborhoods. He noted that 70% of the identified Katrina victims in New Orleans were older than 60, frequently lifelong residents who had ridden out other hurricanes and refused to evacuate. Elderly people are more likely to be wealthier and to live in wealthier neighborhoods.
Many of the city's wealthier neighborhoods sit on Lake Pontchartrain in the lowest-lying sector of town, Campanella said. For example, Lakeview, a predominately white neighborhood that contains mansions valued at more than $1 million in addition to crowded streets studded with modest bungalows, fronts the lake and is adjacent to the 17th Street Canal. When the levee collapsed, the neighborhood was destroyed. The only neighborhood with comparable destruction, the Lower 9th Ward, sits on higher ground but was unluckily flanked by two broken levees.
Katrina "really knew no bounds," said Ashley Casey, an aide to Lakeview Councilman John Batt. "I don't think it's over yet in any neighborhood."
Singelmann, of the Louisiana Population Data Center, said New Orleans was unique among American cities because, despite pockets of poverty in places such as the Lower 9th Ward, the city was remarkable for its integration of blacks and whites of different incomes living in close proximity.
He cited Read Boulevard East, a neighborhood of expensive new homes clustered around a 36-acre lake, as well as streets of more modest homes owned by middle-class whites and blacks. The data indicate a high concentration of recovered bodies from the neighborhood.
On the other hand, Singelmann said, poor African American neighborhoods that straddle the prosperous Garden District show a much higher concentration of recovered bodies than the Garden District itself. One reason, he said, may be that low-income residents lacked cars to flee in or the resources to pay for a safe refuge outside the city. And the Garden District sits on some of the city's highest land.
Not all white residents who died in the storm were well-to-do; not all African American victims were poor.
William S. Porter Jr., a 75-year-old African American, for instance, worked as an embalmer and funeral director for a New Orleans funeral home.
He died at a home in the rapidly gentrifying Gentilly neighborhood during the storm ? not because he lacked the means to flee but because he refused to leave, his son said.
Porter, who called himself "the Bishop," owned a home in the Lower 9th Ward but was moving into a second home in Gentilly.
Porter earned about $40,000 a year, said his boss, Cal Johnson of Littlejohn's Funeral Home. He also earned rental income from two homes he owned in the Lower 9th Ward, his son said.
"He was not a pauper by any means," Johnson said of Porter. "He lived quite well."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Times staff researcher Maloy Moore contributed to this report.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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lonestar2004
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5081317 - 12/19/05 09:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"The analysis contradicts what swiftly became conventional wisdom in the days after the storm hit"
not surprised
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Bhairabas
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: lonestar2004]
#5081359 - 12/19/05 10:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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It seems you care more about the race card then anyone else I've seen so far.. This proves nothing except that nature doesn't care what race you are.. We can learn from this model..
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Bhairabas]
#5081373 - 12/19/05 10:23 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bhairabas said: It seems you care more about the race card then anyone else I've seen so far.. This proves nothing except that nature doesn't care what race you are.. We can learn from this model..
Next New York Times headline:
Bush Failed in Attempt to use Katrina Against Blacks
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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SirTripAlot
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: lonestar2004]
#5081463 - 12/19/05 11:03 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I find it deplorable of how black people were portrayed during the Katrina disaster. They were used like tokens for some kind of Bash Bush agenda. Granted there are some serious discrepancies in the Bush Administration, in my opinion. But to use race, is pretty low, and serves no good purpose.
How come the media and journalists can not be held accountable with the disinformation they spread?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Bhairabas
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5081491 - 12/19/05 11:18 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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How come the president isn't held accountable for the lies he spreads??
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lonestar2004
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5081497 - 12/19/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://newsbusters.org/media/2005-09-01-CNNTSRBlitzer.wmv
Wolf Blitzer said that the victims "were so black."
they fucking report what matters to them!!!!
They report that the victims "were so black" because that is what they see!
They see people who have black skin and not people who have been affected by a storm.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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SirTripAlot
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: lonestar2004]
#5081573 - 12/19/05 11:50 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bhairabas stated:
How come the president isn't held accountable for the lies he spreads??
Hopefully, whatever lies he has told (which is debatable), it still does not take away from the main point of this post.
You don't rationalize bad ethics, by pointing to other questionable ethics.
Two wrongs do not equal a right.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Silversoul
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5081631 - 12/19/05 12:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I find it deplorable of how black people were portrayed during the Katrina disaster.
Me too, but for entirely different reasons.
--------------------
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Bhairabas
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Silversoul]
#5081776 - 12/19/05 12:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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So that footage of soldiers pointing guns at black poeple and taking off in that helicopter was staged?? No it was evident that most of the people at least at the convention centre were black and were not treated very humanely by the people who were supposed to save them.. I only listen to people who were actualy there or from what I've seen myself.. You can't debate what was seen by thousands of people on national television and the people who were on the ground witnessing it first hand.. The lets shoot looters at first sight comment didn't help much either.. Not saying that black people were the only ones looting but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to not admit that generally blacks are treated alot worse than whites by the police in general..
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SirTripAlot
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Bhairabas]
#5081809 - 12/19/05 01:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bhairabas stated:
So that footage of soldiers pointing guns at black people and taking off in that helicopter was staged?? No it was evident that most of the people at least at the convention centerer were black and were not treated very humanely by the people who were supposed to save them.
If the above was true ( I have not seen it), is that wrong? It was an emergency situation. Were the black people fired upon? I'm sure there were other situations in which uniformed personal had to show force in some regard. In the end, the black people were saved proportionately to every other race.
What makes race an issue, are people in the media who constantly throw the race card down for ratings, regardless of the facts, to simply glamorize the situation.
There are other articles like the one I orginally posted here to back up the facts.
Race was not an issue in Katrina.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Bhairabas
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5082216 - 12/19/05 02:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry man but your country has some serious race issues.. The segregation of race and class has put your country in the position it is in now and makes people sometimes jump to conclusions.. Race might not be an issue in this matter but it sure as hell is a very serious one.. One thing which has worked here is the mix of poor and middle class familys in the same subsidized housing..If you put all the poor people in one place and they just so happen to be mostly black then there is going to be negative effects.. When you don't segregate the poor from middle class, people learn to live with eachother regardless of race or salary..
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lonestar2004
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Bhairabas]
#5082269 - 12/19/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bhairabas said: Sorry man but your country has some serious race issues.. The segregation of race and class has put your country in the position it is in now and makes people sometimes jump to conclusions.. Race might not be an issue in this matter but it sure as hell is a very serious one.. One thing which has worked here is the mix of poor and middle class familys in the same subsidized housing..If you put all the poor people in one place and they just so happen to be mostly black then there is going to be negative effects.. When you don't segregate the poor from middle class, people learn to live with eachother regardless of race or salary..
http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_051121.html
"Gun murder in this city is a Toronto problem, and it is a problem of relations between the police and portions of the black community
?????Gun murders in Toronto, and particularly within some areas of Toronto's black community,???????
Oh My: You mean Canada has a problem with guns and murder in their black community? I thought Canada was a Paradies for blacks.
Like France was a paradise for blacks till they started burning all the cars.
I guess the whole world is racist against blacks except Africa where they get along with each other so well.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Bhairabas]
#5082387 - 12/19/05 03:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bhairabas said: Sorry man but your country has some serious race issues.. The segregation of race and class has put your country in the position it is in now and makes people sometimes jump to conclusions.. Race might not be an issue in this matter but it sure as hell is a very serious one.. One thing which has worked here is the mix of poor and middle class familys in the same subsidized housing..If you put all the poor people in one place and they just so happen to be mostly black then there is going to be negative effects.. When you don't segregate the poor from middle class, people learn to live with eachother regardless of race or salary..
Any population of free people will segregate themselves on the basis of wealth and/or income. There is no forced integration. Is that what you are advocating? We don't "put" people anywhere. They are free to go wherever thay can afford to. I like my million dollar house quite nicely and have absolutely no interest in having any welfare housing anywhere near my neighborhood. We worked our asses off to get here, pay huge taxes, and you think you can tell me who my neighbors should be? With all due respect, you can kiss my ass.
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nakors_junk_bag
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Bhairabas]
#5083552 - 12/19/05 08:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bhairabas said: So that footage of soldiers pointing guns at black poeple and taking off in that helicopter was staged?? No it was evident that most of the people at least at the convention centre were black and were not treated very humanely by the people who were supposed to save them.. I only listen to people who were actualy there or from what I've seen myself.. You can't debate what was seen by thousands of people on national television and the people who were on the ground witnessing it first hand.. The lets shoot looters at first sight comment didn't help much either.. Not saying that black people were the only ones looting but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to not admit that generally blacks are treated alot worse than whites by the police in general..
what about the niggers that fired on the rescue copters?
-------------------- Asshole
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gregorio
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: lonestar2004]
#5084355 - 12/20/05 12:16 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Next New York Times headline:
Bush Failed in Attempt to use Katrina Against Blacks
It's funny that you came up with that. Today at work we were talking about this on break and this one guy said just about the same thing.
it wasn't that Bush didnt attempt it, he did, he just screwed the whole plan up.
And then he went on a rant about how we were attempting to excuse FEMA's dismal response by pointing these statistics out. He got realy angered by the whole thing, which was very strange.
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Seuss
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Quote:
Sorry man but your country has some serious race issues.. The segregation of race and class has put your country in the position it is in now and makes people sometimes jump to conclusions...
I assume you are speaking of the US here... I also assume you are basing this view off of what you see on the news, rather than having actually lived in the US to experience it for yourself. For each instance of some racist moron in the US that you see in the news, there are millions of non-racist instances that are not reported in the news. The news focuses in on the one or two bad apples in the orchard, painting a very skewed picture of reality. I am not claiming that we don't have problems in the US, but the news certainly provides a biased view.
> what about the niggers that fired on the rescue copters?
I'm not going to censor this, but I politely ask you to please refrain from using racial slurs when possible in this forum. Red, white, yellow, brown, black, whatever color our skin is, we all hurt the same.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Seuss]
#5084919 - 12/20/05 06:06 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: please refrain from using racial slurs when possible in this forum. Red, white, yellow, brown, black, whatever color our skin is, we all hurt the same.
Word up homie.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5084948 - 12/20/05 06:30 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seuss said:
I assume you are speaking of the US here... I also assume you are basing this view off of what you see on the news, rather than having actually lived in the US to experience it for yourself. For each instance of some racist moron in the US that you see in the news, there are millions of non-racist instances that are not reported in the news. The news focuses in on the one or two bad apples in the orchard, painting a very skewed picture of reality. I am not claiming that we don't have problems in the US, but the news certainly provides a biased view
What a perfect post!
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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RandalFlagg
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Re: More Proof Against the Race Card [Re: Seuss]
#5084968 - 12/20/05 06:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I too am annoyed at this generalization that foreigners seem to have of Americans. There seems to be a general perception that we are all racist troglodytes who have IQ's of 40.
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